Worship and the Holy Spirit expanded....

[ImmersionX]

There has been a LOT of posts regarding worship and the Holy Spirit and various views/experiences stating moves of God during worship, and gifts, and other sorts of manifestations, including but not limited to demonic deliverances, and such in regard to surroundings of circumstance(ie, hypnosis, brainwashing, mass hysteria, etc):

I ask this simply I hope:

People's worship/theology/faith....shaped by what?
Subjective personal points of view?
Just the Bible?
Church Tradition(for all the Catholics out there.)

Should there be order to worship, as Paul stated? It seems not in many churches today.
How is the Holy Ghost emotional, which some claim? Where does it state that "you can grieve Him.", which many claim, almost like using the Holy Spirit as a crutch in life?
I can assume that people can and will "receive demons being evicted"....can deliverance be accomplished in my basement? on the roof?
Or just in a deliverance revival nite at the local farm auction house?

I ask this question cause it does seem that all of the kooks/crackpots show a very charismatic, out there origin when preaching new stuff, ie the New Apostolic Reformation, Joel's Army, and the resurgance of the Latter Rain teachings in modern churches today.

Question and point of post:

To be very blunt...does the modern day charismatic "movement" have any basis in biblical teaching and faith....is it relevant at all?


....could you experience these same things without said surrioundings/environment, for an extreme example: in the midst of an Episcopal Service???

The crux of my thoughts here are really just concerning the what's and why's as the basis of the charismatic "movement" in the first place?????


Peace and God Bless.

PS: if you get into the entire Dominionist/Joel's Army theological fiasco(which seems to be gaining unholy ground recently) don't bother posting here....cause that's nutz in the first place.

 

[pinetree]

There has been a LOT of posts regarding worship and the Holy Spirit and various views/experiences stating moves of God during worship, and gifts, and other sorts of manifestations, including but not limited to demonic deliverances, and such in regard to surroundings of circumstance(ie, hypnosis, brainwashing, mass hysteria, etc):

I ask this simply I hope:

People's worship/theology/faith....shaped by what?
Subjective personal points of view?
Just the Bible?
Church Tradition(for all the Catholics out there.)

Should there be order to worship, as Paul stated? It seems not in many churches today.
How is the Holy Ghost emotional, which some claim? Where does it state that "you can grieve Him.", which many claim, almost like using the Holy Spirit as a crutch in life?
I can assume that people can and will "receive demons being evicted"....can deliverance be accomplished in my basement? on the roof?
Or just in a deliverance revival nite at the local farm auction house?

I ask this question cause it does seem that all of the kooks/crackpots show a very charismatic, out there origin when preaching new stuff, ie the New Apostolic Reformation, Joel's Army, and the resurgance of the Latter Rain teachings in modern churches today.

Question and point of post:

To be very blunt...does the modern day charismatic "movement" have any basis in biblical teaching and faith....is it relevant at all?


....could you experience these same things without said surrioundings/environment, for an extreme example: in the midst of an Episcopal Service???

The crux of my thoughts here are really just concerning the what's and why's as the basis of the charismatic "movement" in the first place?????


Peace and God Bless.

PS: if you get into the entire Dominionist/Joel's Army theological fiasco(which seems to be gaining unholy ground recently) don't bother posting here....cause that's nutz in the first place.

very ,very interesting subject...

there is alot of folklore,and expressions,and traditions that have almost become doctrine,but your right..

I always find myself asking...

where did they get all that from?

 

[ImmersionX]

Seems like you're the only one besides me here who even wants to touch this subject...I wonder if it is due to the fact that we're right.

 

[irenemcg]

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Here is the answer to that one. We can grieve the Holy Spirit

Psa 107:19 Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
Psa 107:20 He sent His word and healed them,
And delivered them from their destructions.
Psa 107:21 Oh, that men would give thanks to the LORD for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
Psa 107:22 Let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving,
And declare His works with rejoicing.
Psa 107:23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,
Who do business on great waters,
Psa 107:24 They see the works of the LORD,
And His wonders in the deep.
Psa 107:25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.
Psa 107:26 They mount up to the heavens,
They go down again to the depths;
Their soul melts because of trouble.
Psa 107:27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man,
And are at their wits' end.
Psa 107:28 Then they cry out to the LORD in their trouble,
And He brings them out of their distresses.
Psa 107:29 He calms the storm,
So that its waves are still.
Psa 107:30 Then they are glad because they are quiet;
So He guides them to their desired haven.
Psa 107:31 Oh, that men would give thanks to the LORD for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
Psa 107:32 Let them exalt Him also in the assembly of the people,
And praise Him in the company of the elders.


They cried out- depicting emotion from the depths of their being

they rejoiced- also depicting emotion coming from deep within

after the storm - they are glad and this depicts a stillness

We can worship the Lord loudly and with fervor, and we can quietly draw aside and be still and quiet with Him and very reverent but both are an act of Worship if the Lord is at the center. God looks at our hearts.

 

[ImmersionX]

We can worship the Lord loudly and with fervor, and we can quietly draw aside and be still and quiet with Him and very reverent but both are an act of Worship if the Lord is at the center. God looks at our hearts.

Very good words....so to expand on that...what's the purpose of the charismatic movement then, seems there's no need for it? Isn't it just a mattter of worship style(all charismatic doctrine is based primarily on Pentecostal docrine isn't it?) why distinguish itself then eh? My Southern Baptist church is very loud and emotional in praise and worship but during other times very solemn and studious. Is that what charismatic is all about then? Speaking in tongues doesn't even distinguish the Charismatic movement as unique, the Pentacostals marketed that doctrine.



thanks for the response.

Peace.

 

[Elijah2]

There has been a LOT of posts regarding worship and the Holy Spirit and various views/experiences stating moves of God during worship, and gifts, and other sorts of manifestations, including but not limited to demonic deliverances, and such in regard to surroundings of circumstance(ie, hypnosis, brainwashing, mass hysteria, etc):

I ask this simply I hope:

People's worship/theology/faith....shaped by what?
Subjective personal points of view?
Just the Bible?
Church Tradition(for all the Catholics out there.)

Should there be order to worship, as Paul stated? It seems not in many churches today.
How is the Holy Ghost emotional, which some claim? Where does it state that "you can grieve Him.", which many claim, almost like using the Holy Spirit as a crutch in life?
I can assume that people can and will "receive demons being evicted"....can deliverance be accomplished in my basement? on the roof?
Or just in a deliverance revival nite at the local farm auction house?

I ask this question cause it does seem that all of the kooks/crackpots show a very charismatic, out there origin when preaching new stuff, ie the New Apostolic Reformation, Joel's Army, and the resurgance of the Latter Rain teachings in modern churches today.

Question and point of post:

To be very blunt...does the modern day charismatic "movement" have any basis in biblical teaching and faith....is it relevant at all?


....could you experience these same things without said surrioundings/environment, for an extreme example: in the midst of an Episcopal Service???

The crux of my thoughts here are really just concerning the what's and why's as the basis of the charismatic "movement" in the first place?????


Peace and God Bless.

PS: if you get into the entire Dominionist/Joel's Army theological fiasco(which seems to be gaining unholy ground recently) don't bother posting here....cause that's nutz in the first place.

Sad as it is, Yes and No.

The praise and worship in our church has become boring, and there are no heartfelt songs being sung. The praise and worship team are trying to push their own music and to sell it.

I believe when you sing words of praise that you mean those words and sing them from your heart.

We have a large Christian music church here whose music has become more like "mind control" than worship music. Worship music these days has become such, has no bearing on the heart praise and worship.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[irenemcg]

It's not the church we worship in that matters , it's our hearts engaging in worshiping the Lord, for me my Pentecostal church allows me to worship with a freedom of spirit, I can worship the Lord in my bedroom or living room too, it's not important where and the words we sing should never be empty, I personally like when Worship Songs have a fairly strong basis on Scripture.

Worship is an attitude of mind we can worship the Lord without singing, we should be worshiping and praising Him daily 24/7 our minds shuld be attuned to worship.

 

[rob64]

I'm glad to see this come to the surface!

I posted the other day and told how I was in a drug rehab - of all places - and indeed experienced this 'charismatic movement' as you call it. I'm not Pentacostal, or AOG, or anything for that mater. I would call myself a disciple of Christ.
What I experienced occured about 25 years ago. The people involved were just like you and I, normal, caring, humans who aren't perfect yet.

I didn't go on an expedition, to "find God". I was homeless, so I humbled myself, and cried out, as many do, 'If your there, why are you putting me through this' ? God doesn't listen to proud people, He resists them. But when you end up at the end of your rope, (such as homeless) we sudenly get humble. Some times it takes a disaster to come to God.

Shortly after I cried out to Him, He caused me to run into a PENTECOSTAL preacher, who told me that Jesus was my answer. He was the FIRST PERSON IN MY 18 YEARS who told me this. I had little choice, so I gave it a try. The preacher drove me several hundred miles to a Teen Challenge drug rehab. I'd been using a needle, among other things.

I was serious about God, and He was serious back. He became real to me within weeks, thus, the 'charismatic movement'.

I'm no different than alot of people, I take God seriously, I appreciate His Son DYING FOR ME, so every chance I get - which isn't nearly enough - I give Him due respect, and praise, and adoration.

I live to make Him pleased, and I yearn to be in His presence, and He hooks me up. That's all. That's all it amounts to for me. I'm one of those JESUS FREAKS you hear about. THAT' ME
Peace