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Wormholes to Heaven.

dad

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You keep demonstrating, repeatedly, that you don't understand what you're talking about. A wormhole, if it existed, wouldn't be composed of anything. It's just the underlying geometry of space. There is no material involved.
The site said something about a problem with keeping it open. A simple way to address that problem was by having the spiritual in the mix. Now, the spiritual isn't a material as we think of it, so that fits fine. Let's face it, science doesn't know how it really works.



Don't worry, I will. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm completely serious. I am willing to change my beliefs with presented with evidence. I don't have blind faith in whatever I happen to believe right now. I like being wrong because that means I've learned something. Can you say the same?
Yes. I am willing to change my beliefs in wormholes. But not God.


Can't work. The numbers represent something. All of what they represent is based on earth state conceptions, and maybe standard model assumptions, and etc. You won't get the right numbers for a window to heaven, that actually does span time and space.

We have no reason to believe that anyone goes anywhere after death.

Who is "we"? I have plenty!

Where were you before you were conceived? Do you remember what it was like? Of course not, you didn't exist yet.
Well, that is perhaps a deep topic in itself.


We? WE saw Jesus go up? I don't know about you but I'm not quite 2000 years old. I wasn't around yet.
We Christians. We have the record, protected sacredly and carefully, and sealed in blood.

Look, you can believe anything you want. I'm not trying to convince you that there isn't some wormhole that leads to heaven. Whatever. It is literally the least interesting idea in the world to me because it's not testable. And therein lies the problem. It's not testable so it's not science; it's magic. It doesn't belong in the science forum.

It is tested and recorded and observed. So called science doesn't belong in a science forum! Really.
 
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dad

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Well, again, you think wrong. There MAY be some magic wizard door between universes, but mainstream scientists don't think that. In fact there's no reason to believe there are "other universes" to go between. (many worlds theory is not what you think it is)
There is every reason. Men have been there. John for example. Others have come back from there. Elijah and Moses for example, on the mountain with Jesus. Jesus said we are from above. The bible is clear on that. You think I made it up? Mainstream science does NOT know. All their models and theories are fishbowl based, and useless nonsense. Dreams. Untested. Unobserved. It is time we progress to real science here.

Science has clear and present and real limits. The creation debate is out of it's realm. Time to rub that fact in.
 
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dad

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dad said "outside of space", not "outerspace". Which makes far less sense than you may have thought it didn't.

Wiki sez: "By mass, oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe after hydrogen and helium and the most abundant element by mass in the Earth's crust, making up almost half of the crust's mass.". Interesting. Plants give us elemental oxygen (O2), as a waste product of photosynthesis.

Good point. Now, what can science tell us about stuff outside the observable universe!? So much for science:)

In the new earth, where God will move to, and live, there will be trees, and water, and etc. It is quite reasonable to assume there are those things where He lives now.
 
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Davian

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In the new earth, where God will move to, and live, there will be trees, and water, and etc. It is quite reasonable to assume there are those things where He lives now.

Where does he live now? You would think an omnipotent being like that could find a decent place to exist already.
 
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dad

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Where does he live now? You would think an omnipotent being like that could find a decent place to exist already.
Well, the bible does say that 'God is in Heaven' if I recall? At the moment, He isn't here in this earth or sky is He, directly? Paul was caught up beyond the second space or heavens, to hear from Him.


2Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.


That seems to indicate that it is beyond space, where the stars are. Any Christian experts out there have something to add?
 
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dad

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There is nothing new under the sun... Colonizing the universe is the same thing as exploring deep sea in the age gone by!

We will need a new world view when we put our first colony on other planets... "they will change like a garment"

Hmm. Let's think about that. If God lives in the third heaven, above what we call space, then His kingdom is there. That kingdom will come to earth! The space in between, far as I can tell will be rolled away like a scroll, to be no more, no? Therefore, whatever we 'colonize' will have nothing to do with space.

Also, space or the expanse, or firmament where the stars are, is of a nature not actually known to science! For all we know stars may not be all that big, or suitable for 'colonization'!

How about the Christmas star? It was not big enough to even be seen by nearby countries! Does China have a record of it?

Science has assumes that space is the same as near earth space. We have never been out there. If space was not the same further out, then all we see means something else, and that includes the size and composition and nature of the stars we see.


Parallax measure is the foundational premise for the cosmic ladder. Unless that is accurate all rungs cease to exist with any meaning at all!

Parallax measure assumes time and space to be the same. For example if we draw one line to the stars from a point on or near earth on, say, Dec 22, we then have one line. 3 are needed. Now, for the other lines this is what I think they do. (Anyone with more info is welcome to add their bit about this here) ..Say 6 months later, say, June 22, from the same point they look at the same star, and get another line. Now, all that is needed is the 3rd line. They have figured that we know how far the earth traveled in orbit in that TIME. That gives them the 3 lines. Hence a distance is determined. That only works out to a certain distance, however, so other rungs must be added, which depend on this first rung.


Now imagine that the star we looked at did not exist in time as we know it at all! Do we know it does? No!

That means that we lose the 3rd line. You see the star is right there still in the same 'time' only earth has moved 6 months! So, now we just have the ONE line because both Dec 22, and June 22 would see the star in the same time! Now if time did exist in some form out there, even if it was a space that was also spiritual in nature, then maybe we could have a line of some sort, however this is not known, so we don't have one!


This means that UNLESS the firmament, (space) is all in earth zone rules and nature, (3d, and physical laws, etc) no distance to any star is known! That means NO size of any star or temperature or composition, etc etc.
 
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dad

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We agree!
OK..good.


Now I notice that the koran seems to agree with the passage through time and space also!

[Quran 70.4] The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.


"We cannot calculate our local speed of light from this time dilation however we can calculate at what percentage of the speed of light those angels are traveling relative to an observer on Earth. By this we can compare a time dilation (50,000 years vs. one day) with a speed (12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day). We can do this by translating both of them to a common speed in km/sec. Outside gravitational fields 50,000 years vs. one day shows angels traveling at 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day; it is the same speed in km/sec. However inside gravitational fields 50,000 years vs. one day shows angels crossing a wormhole at a few meters/sec. This is a picture of a wormhole. The Quran says that angels use these wormholes to reach any place in the universe. An observer outside gravitational fields sees those angels passing by him at 99.99999...% of the speed of light (relativistic speeds, very close to the local speed of light), that is at 299792.457999...km/s. But when those angels enter the gravitational field of a wormhole this observer still sees those angels entering the wormhole at 99.99999...% of the speed of light however that would no longer be at 299792.457999...km/s. This is because the measured speed of light is a variable depending upon the reference frame of the observer."

http://www.speed-light.info/relativistic_time_dilation.htm

And here is more, including little movie.
Wormholes
 
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