World Turned Upside Down

[Secundulus]

Remember Pravda, the newspaper from the old USSR, now Russia.

This article appeared in Pravda criticising the USA for turning left. Unfortunately, there is too much truth here.


American capitalism gone with a whimper

It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.

First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and substandard education system based on pop culture, rather then the classics. Americans know more about their favorite TV dramas then the drama in DC that directly affects their lives. They care more for their "right" to choke down a McDonalds burger or a BurgerKing burger than for their constitutional rights. Then they turn around and lecture us about our rights and about our "democracy". Pride blind the foolish.

Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of thousands of different "branches and denominations" were for the most part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top protestant mega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to be on the "winning" side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another. Their flocks may complain, but when explained that they would be on the "winning" side, their flocks were ever so quick to reject Christ in hopes for earthly power. Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in America. . . .

Read the rest at the link above.

 

[MrJim]

There's a writer with a future ...good analysis...

 

[E.C.]

Very well written and accurate.

This article reminds me of many reasons why I have monarchist sympathies.


Except for this part:

Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in America.

Two points...

1) This is North America, not Russia. The Orthodox churches here belong to the North Americans, not the Russians.

2) Liberalized? Most certainly not true.

 

[porterross]

Boy, talk about a spot on analysis. Too bad those who most need to take it seriously will dismiss it as propaganda. The Chinese certainly won't! God help us.

 

[edie19]

Very well written and accurate.

This article reminds me of many reasons why I have monarchist sympathies.


Except for this part:

Two points...

1) This is North America, not Russia. The Orthodox churches here belong to the North Americans, not the Russians.

2) Liberalized? Most certainly not true.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I understand what the writer is saying.

I have a good friend whose family emigrated from Russia after WWII (first to Chile and then to the US). Within a year or two of the Berlin Wall coming down he accompanied his mother to Eastern Europe and Russia for the first time since they left ~40 years before.

One of the things they talked about was the fact that after 50+ years of the Lenin/Marx mentality that there is no God - folks flocked to the churches as soon as they were able. The churches had been stripped bare of their icons, statues and such (anything that might have had some financial value), in some instances even the pews were gone - but they were packed for worship services - people standing in line for hours just to get in.

At this point in time, we in the US haven't truly experienced repression because of our faith. Because of that overall I don't see us holding the church in such high standing. Too often we (general we) want church "our way" or we don't bother. Now I recognize that there is a big difference between the Orthodox churches who have worshiped the same way for centuries and the churches that have arisen out of the 2nd great awakening of the 1800's. But I can see someone from the outside lumping all the churches here together.

 

[E.C.]

One of the things they talked about was the fact that after 50+ years of the Lenin/Marx mentality that there is no God - folks flocked to the churches as soon as they were able. The churches had been stripped bare of their icons, statues and such (anything that might have had some financial value), in some instances even the pews were gone - but they were packed for worship services - people standing in line for hours just to get in.

At this point in time, we in the US haven't truly experienced repression because of our faith. Because of that overall I don't see us holding the church in such high standing. Too often we (general we) want church "our way" or we don't bother. Now I recognize that there is a big difference between the Orthodox churches who have worshiped the same way for centuries and the churches that have arisen out of the 2nd great awakening of the 1800's. But I can see someone from the outside lumping all the churches here together.

The writer was addressing the Orthodox churches that are here, in the USA.

Although about the pews, most Orthodox churches in the world do not have pews. The exception seems to be in North America, but that is beside the point.


There is no way possible for anyone to argue that the Orthodox churches here or there are 'liberalized' because it just is not true. It truly is not. I know fellow Orthodox who are originally from Russia, Ukraine, Palestine, Romania and Greece. Of them the only one who has said things were 'liberalized' in North America was the Greek and his argument was "because the Liturgy is not in Greek". That was about it.
I wish the author would come to America to see for himself.

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

Pravda.ru is always a fun read.

 

[edie19]

Although about the pews, most Orthodox churches in the world do not have pews. The exception seems to be in North America, but that is beside the point.

I didn't know that - and I'm surprised my friend didn't since that was his background. Maybe he didn't realize since his experiences had been in US churches (at least since he was a small child)

There is no way possible for anyone to argue that the Orthodox churches here or there are 'liberalized' because it just is not true. It truly is not. I know fellow Orthodox who are originally from Russia, Ukraine, Palestine, Romania and Greece. Of them the only one who has said things were 'liberalized' in North America was the Greek and his argument was "because the Liturgy is not in Greek". That was about it.
I wish the author would come to America to see for himself.

I don't disagree and that's why I emphasized the difference between American churches in general and Orthodox churches specifically. I guess I was just giving the auther the benefit of the doubt that maybe he he just didn't know any better about Orthodox churches here (and hence made the mistake of lumping them with other denominations).

 

[Serious Faith]

We should not be surprised at what is happening to America & to the church these days. The falling away has begun. The majority of Christians are lukewarm. People who "struggling" to live holy lives are really struggling to make the commitment to love & obey The Lord.

 

[desmalia]

We should not be surprised at what is happening to America & to the church these days. The falling away has begun. The majority of Christians are lukewarm. People who "struggling" to live holy lives are really struggling to make the commitment to love & obey The Lord.

Yep.
Interesting article, Sec. Thanks for posting it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

We should not be surprised at what is happening to America & to the church these days. The falling away has begun. The majority of Christians are lukewarm. People who "struggling" to live holy lives are really struggling to make the commitment to love & obey The Lord.

Money has given us more freedom, but we are unable to tell the difference between right and wrong. America's attitudes towards money should be in their conviction that money is a social good, not a private possession and that the economic main purpose is the welfare of everyone in society, not the personal pleasure of the person who happens to have control over it. Economic system is stewardship. So, regarding the political economic system, I have said before and I will say again, economic system is NOT the problem, its PEOPLE and their attitudes.

 

[Auntie]

America's attitudes towards money should be in their conviction that money is a social good, not a private possession and that the economic main purpose is the welfare of everyone in society, not the personal pleasure of the person who happens to have control over it.

Money IS a private possession, IF you worked your bunns off for it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Money IS a private possession, IF you worked your bunns off for it.

I will use this argument that I used when debating with WOF. I agree while at the same time, everything belongs to God, who calls the church to live in faithful stewardship of all that God has entrusted to us. Throughout the Old Testament, there were lists of people who were wealthy and in fact the Book of Proverbs wrote who we use our wealth. We are to work hard for our wealth and live in a simple life. Money is used to meet our daily needs such as food, utility bills and other expenses. God would meet all of our needs (Matthew 6), however God will not meet our selfish desires. There is nothing wrong with having a desire for something as long as our motives are correct. It is important that we look from God's perspective in our stewardship so that we are not pursuing desires against God's will and purpose. Because if we are pursuing our selfish desires rather than God's will and purpose, then our motives are wrong. Christians' view of money and material possessions is an effective barometer of our spirituality.

 

[Auntie]

I will use this argument that I used when debating with WOF. I agree while at the same time, everything belongs to God, who calls the church to live in faithful stewardship of all that God has entrusted to us. Throughout the Old Testament, there were lists of people who were wealthy and in fact the Book of Proverbs wrote who we use our wealth. We are to work hard for our wealth and live in a simple life. Money is used to meet our daily needs such as food, utility bills and other expenses. God would meet all of our needs (Matthew 6), however God will not meet our selfish desires. There is nothing wrong with having a desire for something as long as our motives are correct. It is important that we look from God's perspective in our stewardship so that we are not pursuing desires against God's will and purpose. Because if we are pursuing our selfish desires rather than God's will and purpose, then our motives are wrong. Christians' view of money and material possessions is an effective barometer of our spirituality.

I would rather not work at all, Jim, because I am disabled and live in pretty much constant pain.
However, I DO work, and I work in pain most of the time.
My "selfish desire" is to take care of myself, and not be a burden on society.

My income is NOT for a "societal good". My income is to pay my bills.

You are really EXTREMELY liberal, Jim.
I'm sure you would advise me to find a good social program to suck off of.
No thanks, I'd rather die than be beholden to some government program.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I would rather not work at all, Jim, because I am disabled and live in pretty much constant pain.
However, I DO work, and I work in pain most of the time.
My "selfish desire" is to take care of myself, and not be a burden on society.

My income is NOT for a "societal good". My income is to pay my bills.

You are really EXTREMELY liberal, Jim.
I'm sure you would advise me to find a good social program to suck off of.
No thanks, I'd rather die than be beholden to some government program.

I am legally deaf, have multiple sclerosis and worked full time for over 28 years for the same place. I am against deaf people have disability checks and many of them do.

Just because I have different view of money does not make me liberal.

 

[Auntie]

I am legally deaf, have multiple sclerosis and worked full time for over 28 years for the same place. I am against deaf people have disability checks and many of them do.

Just because I have different view of money does not make me liberal.

You think my income belongs to society. It doesn't.
A good friend of mine, her parents were deaf.
In spite of that, they had good jobs, an excellent income, and left her with a nice inheritance.
However, not all deaf people are so blessed.
Along with the deafness, you would have to have a really sharp mind, and a huge desire to succeed.
And if you worked for 30 yrs. in a factory, that money should belong to you.
Not to society.

On the other hand, we contribute to society.
Our work represents a small contribution to make America what it is.
As for me, I ship cattle.
They go to ranches in the west, on pasture.
Eventually, the beef goes to your local supermarket.
I help feed America, that is my contribution to society.
And in return for that, I get some cash to pay my electric bill, my mortgage.

 

[JimfromOhio]

You think my income belongs to society. It doesn't.
A good friend of mine, her parents were deaf.
In spite of that, they had good jobs, an excellent income, and left her with a nice inheritance.
However, not all deaf people are so blessed.
Along with the deafness, you would have to have a really sharp mind, and a huge desire to succeed.
And if you worked for 30 yrs. in a factory, that money should belong to you.
Not to society.

On the other hand, we contribute to society.
Our work represents a small contribution to make America what it is.
As for me, I ship cattle.
They go to ranches in the west, on pasture.
Eventually, the beef goes to your local supermarket.
I help feed America, that is my contribution to society.
And in return for that, I get some cash to pay my electric bill, my mortgage.

I will always remember Benjamin Franklin's quote “The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.” Economic system is stewardship. In this country, people have equal opportunity to be successful but not everyone would be successful.

I come from a very wealthy family and I am living on my own that I am now in the middle class category. I will be visiting my parents next month and they still have the big house I grew up in. My parents are pure Republicans. I grew up in a Christian family and learned the value of money.
Puritans and economics capitalism was adopted by following Puritan work ethic in form of stewardship and that economics are called for efficiency and productiveness of common sense and a strong sense of desiring to be a good steward of God’s gifts. The Puritan attitudes towards money that their conviction that money is a social good, not a private possession and that the economic main purpose is the welfare of everyone in society, not the personal pleasure of the person who happens to have control over it. Richard Baxter's quote: “The question is how they (Puritans) use that which they labour so hard for, and save so sparingly. If they use it for God, and for charitable uses, there is no man taketh a righter course.” Richard Baxter (1615-1691) was a prolific writer and included in his works is The Christian Directory which consists of a practical detailed application of the gospel to every aspect of life. This is probably the most comprehensive exposition of its kind ever written.) In the United States, there is a "money monopoly" which defines that we "free" to earn as much "money" as we want. Excessive greed have driven United States to the lowest level. There are those who have this blind desire to accumulate wealth that can never be satisfied. Gandhi was correct when he said "Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed". There are those who do not accept moral laws in their hearts: you will not steal; you will not bear false witness (lie, deceive, defraud); and you will not covet. Lately, when you hear and read the news, that's all you see.

America was once very wealthy and today we are not because America also has failed to cure our economic needs. A Christian's economical life and standard of moral living are not private matters but rather they are critical issues of faith and discipleship. A Christian life in this world should be different from the world, being in the world but not of the world.

Our attitude of money have become worldly by saying "private" when money actually belongs to God.

 

[Sketcher]

Our attitude of money have become worldly by saying "private" when money actually belongs to God.

Money belonging to God is not the same thing as money belonging to society. Money is private property. The catch for the Christian is that when we become Christians, we surrender everything we have to God. So it is no longer our money, our house, our car, etc. God's going to have us use some of it for accomplishing Kingdom work, and let us enjoy another portion of it. The less the state horns in on the money that God has allowed me to earn, the better. Some things it does need to pay for, but when you have a welfare state, that squeezes out the money as well as the initiative for the church to go out and minister.

 

[Auntie]

Money belonging to God is not the same thing as money belonging to society. Money is private property. The catch for the Christian is that when we become Christians, we surrender everything we have to God. So it is no longer our money, our house, our car, etc. God's going to have us use some of it for accomplishing Kingdom work, and let us enjoy another portion of it. The less the state horns in on the money that God has allowed me to earn, the better. Some things it does need to pay for, but when you have a welfare state, that squeezes out the money as well as the initiative for the church to go out and minister.

Exactly.
If we have any income at all, we count it as a blessing from God.
When my husband brings home a check, he puts it on my desk and says
"thank you Jesus".
And if someone needs food, we give it to them.
If someone needs money for a necessity, if we have it, we give it to them.
On the down side, we don't have retirement savings.
That worries me.
I don't know how to help people AND save for retirement.
So if my neighbor says "please help me pay my electric bill", there's no way I
would ever say "sorry, I'm building myself a retirement fund".
We take things one day at a time, none of us has tomorrow.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I believe that we have a communication failure.

What I was trying to say was, how do you manage the money that you receive from our paycheck or earn an income from personal business. God's main goal is for us to earn enough to live by. Money is used to meet our daily needs such as food, utility bills and other expenses. God would meet all of our needs (Matthew 6), however God will not meet our selfish desires. There is nothing wrong with having a desire for something as long as our motives are correct. Contentment is a problem for many people because it is flesh lead rather than spiritual. 1 Timothy 6:6 says "Godliness with contentment is great gain", that Hebrews 13:5 says "Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have".

I am reminded what Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. my family is struggling to make ends with our cost of living because housing and utility costs rose including monthly food and automobile fuel costs. I take the bus to work daily which means I saved over $250 a month of wear/tear, fuel and parking costs just by paying for a simple bus pass.

My family is one of those America’s working middle-class families who are facing a wave of economic insecurity even though we do have a secured job and we are paying our bills.

While at the same time, I am reminded that all of what I own belongs to God.