Working on the Sabbath

[BeforeThereWas]

I was reminded this morning of a phone call I had received, many years ago, from a dear lady when I was working at a radio station as the weekend personality. She was 70 then, and worked in one of the local Adventist's organizational offices. I could hear the material I was playing from my station in the background, so she must have been listening when I gave the number for callers to contact me.

She asked me if I was getting paid for that day's work (since it was Saturday), and I told her yes, that I was on the payroll. She then asked, "How could you do that; work on the Sabbath and get paid?"

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't need that paycheck, and had been donating 100% of it to the local Salvation Army, since I knew that everything given to them is used to meet needs.

Needless to say, she wasn't satisfied, and persisted in the idea that I was sinning, because I was breaking the ten commandments. Something ocurred to me while I patiently listened to her voice becoming more shrill with outrage as each passing moment progressed into another.

Finally, I stopped her with my question: "Is preaching on Saturday part of your pastor's duties your congregation expects of him as your pastor?"

"Absolutely," she replied.

"Do you people pay your pastor"?

"Why of course," she responded, "that's scriptural."

So, I hit her with what was nagging at the back of my mind, "Tell me, if he stopped preaching on Saturday, would your church fire him and hire someone else?"

"Of course we would! It would be unthinkable for him to stop preaching on Saturday and expect us to... Wait a minute! That's ridiculous! I see where you're going with this. That makes no sense. What are you trying to pull-"

"Excuse me, but you already said that of all the duties he is assigned, that failure to perform this one duty, among all the others he shoulders, would certainly bring down upon him being fired and replaced. You already acknowledged that, correct?"

"Why yes, but that's a ridiculous question. You tricked me," she whined.

"No. I asked a simple question that you initially answered honestly from your understanding of the priorities of his duties for which he was hired. He's being paid to preach to your congregation each Saturday, and you already acknowledged that."

"No. I didn't. He performs many, many other duties for which he is paid, but not that one. He receives nothing for preaching on Saturday," she quipped.

"Then why doesn't someone else preach to you all on Saturdays if he wasn't hired to do that? After all, if he isn't being paid to preach on Saturday, then anyone else in your congregation could do it, right, like an elder?"

"Because we hired him as our-. Oh, no you don't. There you go again, trying to trick me! You're an evil man, and you call yourself a 'christian'!"

"Lady, I never said anything about what I am. You assumed that in spite of anything I said. I love the Lord, and I seek to obey Him at all costs, but I don't go around trying to impress people with a label. Also, you already admitted that your pastor would no longer receive a paycheck if he stopped preaching on Saturdays. You answered honestly, and then tried to back out of the implication that you know is true."

It was at that point that she didn't have time to talk, having too much to do in the office before the "service," so she had to hang up and go. There she was, working in the office on Saturday, right before the service, serving a "pastor" who would no longer receive a paycheck if he refused to preach on Saturday, telling me what a scoundrel I was for working that day at a Christian radio station, merely ministering and talking to people, and getting paid for it, doing pretty much the same thing her "pastor" does on that same day of the week.

BTW

 

[SassySDA]

It is unfortunate that some people have to get "extreme". But there are people that do, and over EVERY thing that could possibly be gotten "extreme" over, or obsessed over.

She was an old lady, obviously very set in her ways, as many elderly folks are. But it also sounded to me like she was angry, maybe even hurt, over something that had nothing to do with you. You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or more likely the RIGHT place at the RIGHT time.

I don't know, but I do hope you don't base all of your feelings towards Adventists on this one poor old lady who felt the need to shreak at someone that morning.

God bless

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I don't know, but I do hope you don't base all of your feelings towards Adventists on this one poor old lady who felt the need to shreak at someone that morning.

Oh, not at all, my friend. In my heart I loved that dear lady even then. She did share with me her testimony that she had been an Adventist since she was a little girl of only six or seven years of age. She was very proud to still be a part of what she started out with. I have no hard feelings toward any group. I may disagree with some theological beliefs, but I love people unconditionally, or at least I try.

I just wnated to show that self-examination is vastly important to us all. Inviting the Lord to take us into the depths of who and what we are, to see if there be any hidden sin, such as pride, stiff-necked tendencies, etc., is important in our daily Christian walk.

May the Lord bless you and yours.

BTW

 

[honorthesabbath]

Call me skeptical, but this "story" rings so untrue. I'm sitting here cracking up at it because it sounds like something a teenager would write to try to provoke an argument while attempting to remain innocuous. Nope, I just don't buy it.

 

[Cliff2]

Working on the Sabbath


I was reminded this morning of a phone call I had received, many years ago, from a dear lady when I was working at a radio station as the weekend personality. She was 70 then, and worked in one of the local Adventist's organizational offices. I could hear the material I was playing from my station in the background, so she must have been listening when I gave the number for callers to contact me.

She asked me if I was getting paid for that day's work (since it was Saturday), and I told her yes, that I was on the payroll. She then asked, "How could you do that; work on the Sabbath and get paid?"

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't need that paycheck, and had been donating 100% of it to the local Salvation Army, since I knew that everything given to them is used to meet needs.

Needless to say, she wasn't satisfied, and persisted in the idea that I was sinning, because I was breaking the ten commandments. Something ocurred to me while I patiently listened to her voice becoming more shrill with outrage as each passing moment progressed into another.

Finally, I stopped her with my question: "Is preaching on Saturday part of your pastor's duties your congregation expects of him as your pastor?"

"Absolutely," she replied.

"Do you people pay your pastor"?

"Why of course," she responded, "that's scriptural."

So, I hit her with what was nagging at the back of my mind, "Tell me, if he stopped preaching on Saturday, would your church fire him and hire someone else?"

"Of course we would! It would be unthinkable for him to stop preaching on Saturday and expect us to... Wait a minute! That's ridiculous! I see where you're going with this. That makes no sense. What are you trying to pull-"

"Excuse me, but you already said that of all the duties he is assigned, that failure to perform this one duty, among all the others he shoulders, would certainly bring down upon him being fired and replaced. You already acknowledged that, correct?"

"Why yes, but that's a ridiculous question. You tricked me," she whined.

"No. I asked a simple question that you initially answered honestly from your understanding of the priorities of his duties for which he was hired. He's being paid to preach to your congregation each Saturday, and you already acknowledged that."

"No. I didn't. He performs many, many other duties for which he is paid, but not that one. He receives nothing for preaching on Saturday," she quipped.

"Then why doesn't someone else preach to you all on Saturdays if he wasn't hired to do that? After all, if he isn't being paid to preach on Saturday, then anyone else in your congregation could do it, right, like an elder?"

"Because we hired him as our-. Oh, no you don't. There you go again, trying to trick me! You're an evil man, and you call yourself a 'christian'!"

"Lady, I never said anything about what I am. You assumed that in spite of anything I said. I love the Lord, and I seek to obey Him at all costs, but I don't go around trying to impress people with a label. Also, you already admitted that your pastor would no longer receive a paycheck if he stopped preaching on Saturdays. You answered honestly, and then tried to back out of the implication that you know is true."

It was at that point that she didn't have time to talk, having too much to do in the office before the "service," so she had to hang up and go. There she was, working in the office on Saturday, right before the service, serving a "pastor" who would no longer receive a paycheck if he refused to preach on Saturday, telling me what a scoundrel I was for working that day at a Christian radio station, merely ministering and talking to people, and getting paid for it, doing pretty much the same thing her "pastor" does on that same day of the week.

BTW

Call me skeptical, but this "story" rings so untrue. I'm sitting here cracking up at it because it sounds like something a teenager would write to try to provoke an argument while attempting to remain innocuous. Nope, I just don't buy it.

It maybe true or it may not be true, but I am not sure what the point of it.

Let's assume that it is true. The old lady is just one person trying to make her point. It looks like she has not made it very well at all.

Heard a true story last Sabbath about the minister when he was a young boy (he is now 71 years old) while on the farm with his parents was asked by his father to help another farmer out on Friday night.

They did help him out and the good influence from that was rewarded in the community by many changing their attitudes to SDA's.

It was a bit like the story that Jesus told to the Jews regarding the Sabbath. They would get their animals out of the well but did not want to allow Jesus to heal on the Sabbath.

I do not support work on the Sabbath that can be done on another daay at all. But some things have to be done and Jesus did not say they could not be done.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Call me skeptical, but this "story" rings so untrue. I'm sitting here cracking up at it because it sounds like something a teenager would write to try to provoke an argument while attempting to remain innocuous. Nope, I just don't buy it.

Well, you can disregard the truth of this account if you want, but it really happened. The only thing I could figure out is that the 70 year old lady was from the old school of Adventist thinking. I have nothing to gain by telling such a lie, and it sure isn't going to gain me any noteriety. She really existed, I really worked at that station, and that conversation really took place. Right now, if she were/is still alive, she would/is (be) about 85, which means that she would be calling you "boy," "young whipper snapper," or some such.

As old as you are, I'm somewhat surprised that you wouldn't understand that there simply are some extreme people in the world.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

It maybe true or it may not be true, but I am not sure what the point of it.

Conversation. Dialogue.

Heard a true story last Sabbath about the minister when he was a young boy (he is now 71 years old) while on the farm with his parents was asked by his father to help another farmer out on Friday night.

They did help him out and the good influence from that was rewarded in the community by many changing their attitudes to SDA's.

It was a bit like the story that Jesus told to the Jews regarding the Sabbath. They would get their animals out of the well but did not want to allow Jesus to heal on the Sabbath.

I do not support work on the Sabbath that can be done on another daay at all. But some things have to be done and Jesus did not say they could not be done.

That's pretty good. I like that.

BTW

 

[Cliff2]

Conversation. Dialogue.



That's pretty good. I like that.

BTW

As SDA's we do not believe that the keeping of the Sabbath has ever earned anyone salvation now or in the future.

We are saved by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ and that alone.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Well, you can disregard the truth of this account if you want, but it really happened. The only thing I could figure out is that the 70 year old lady was from the old school of Adventist thinking. I have nothing to gain by telling such a lie, and it sure isn't going to gain me any noteriety. She really existed, I really worked at that station, and that conversation really took place. Right now, if she were/is still alive, she would/is (be) about 85, which means that she would be calling you "boy," "young whipper snapper," or some such.

As old as you are, I'm somewhat surprised that you wouldn't understand that there simply are some extreme people in the world.

BTW

I'm just curious what the motivation was for even posting it?

 

[StormyOne]

Thanks for sharing the story BTW, I suspect there are many people from various beliefs who have not taken the time to think through their beliefs... I get it... though there are others of us who tend to be obtuse.....

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I'm just curious what the motivation was for even posting it?

I have a number of SDA friends who think that woman was completely off her rocker. I have met others who think she was completely justified in her view of my working on Saturday and being paid for it. I also understand that not all within a given group believe the same thing on all things. You don't know a tree's age unless you cut across its width and count its rings. A cross-section of response on this situation in this forum should give me an idea of the general concensus among SDA's of this mindset that dear lady held so very close to her understanding of God's word. So, there's nothing sinister about my posting this. I just wanted to see what other's reaction is to this in relation to their beliefs.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Thanks for sharing the story BTW, I suspect there are many people from various beliefs who have not taken the time to think through their beliefs... I get it... though there are others of us who tend to be obtuse.....

Thanks. I figured there would be suspicion and knee-jerk reactionism from some quarters, but I also knew there would be well-balanced input, which has certainly been offered, and for which I am thankful.

God bless you and yours.

BTW

 

[HoneyDew]

Thanks for sharing the story BTW, I suspect there are many people from various beliefs who have not taken the time to think through their beliefs... I get it... though there are others of us who tend to be obtuse.....

I get it too.
BTW, if it turns out that I have to work on Sabbath as a nurse, I won't feel compelled to give up my wages for that day. I don't get it but my own mother and sister feel that way. If you feel you should not work, then don't. If you find you have to, especially as a doctor, nurse, EMT etc then I see nothing wrong with it. But to work and then give the money up seems like one is trying to atone.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I get it too.
BTW, if it turns out that I have to work on Sabbath as a nurse, I won't feel compelled to give up my wages for that day. I don't get it but my own mother and sister feel that way. If you feel you should not work, then don't. If you find you have to, especially as a doctor, nurse, EMT etc then I see nothing wrong with it. But to work and then give the money up seems like one is trying to atone.

Well, like I said, I really didn't need the money. Besides, I really didn't appreciate my boss too much, and so really didn't want the money since I already had another good paying job. Besides, the guy who was my boss at that time was a preacher who was later put into prison for money laundering down in Texas for agents posing as drug cartel from Columbia. My purpose for being there was the ministry to people I would otherwise never have come into contact.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BTW

 

[honorthesabbath]

Well, like I said, I really didn't need the money. Besides, I really didn't appreciate my boss too much, and so really didn't want the money since I already had another good paying job. Besides, the guy who was my boss at that time was a preacher who was later put into prison for money laundering down in Texas for agents posing as drug cartel from Columbia. My purpose for being there was the ministry to people I would otherwise never have come into contact.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BTW

BTW--I'm curious. You said you gave the money up for working on Sabbath, so are you a Sabbatarian then?

 

[BeforeThereWas]

BTW--I'm curious. You said you gave the money up for working on Sabbath, so are you a Sabbatarian then?

Well, not exactly. I believe Saturday is the Sabbath. I also believe that it's actually logical and right that we all rest one day out of seven. The wisdom behind God's establishement of the Sabbath is medically sound, because it has been proven that resting one out of every seven actually increases a person's productivity the other six says.

But no, I'm not saying that people should give up the pay they earn on the Sabbath. I did so because I wanted to, and I really had no need of it. I did so because I was there to minister, not to earn money, so the pay really had no meaning to me, and there was no need for it, so I gave it where it would do some good for those in need.

BTW

 

[HoneyDew]

Well, not exactly. I believe Saturday is the Sabbath. I also believe that it's actually logical and right that we all rest one day out of seven. The wisdom behind God's establishement of the Sabbath is medically sound, because it has been proven that resting one out of every seven actually increases a person's productivity the other six says.

But no, I'm not saying that people should give up the pay they earn on the Sabbath. I did so because I wanted to, and I really had no need of it. I did so because I was there to minister, not to earn money, so the pay really had no meaning to me, and there was no need for it, so I gave it where it would do some good for those in need.

BTW

Nice. Glad you got the chance to minister.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Well, not exactly. I believe Saturday is the Sabbath. I also believe that it's actually logical and right that we all rest one day out of seven. The wisdom behind God's establishement of the Sabbath is medically sound, because it has been proven that resting one out of every seven actually increases a person's productivity the other six says.

But no, I'm not saying that people should give up the pay they earn on the Sabbath. I did so because I wanted to, and I really had no need of it. I did so because I was there to minister, not to earn money, so the pay really had no meaning to me, and there was no need for it, so I gave it where it would do some good for those in need.

BTW

Sorry, I hope you don' think that I am picking on you, but this too leaves me with more questions than answers.

Since you admit that Saturday is the Sabbath day. And you believe that God has ordained that we keep it. (I would say the correct word would be COMMANDED us to keep it--I'm trying not to sound harsh here.) And you even have a sense of HOW God says to "keep it". Then why do you seem to be able to brush it aside with such indifference?? Is it a commandment or not? The crux of your story is whether or not one should keep the money earned on Sabbath--but I'm afraid to tell you that for God the central issue is whether or not to WORK on His Holy day!! We are to obstain from secular labor on that day. So all the while you are putting down this old lady for scorning you--you on the other hand are blatantly violating a clear commandment of the Father of this universe. Perhaps you are both in the same boat here!! My mom used the saying, "the pot calling the kettle black".
As I said in the beginning, please--don't think I am picking on you, but I see some inconsistency here that needed to be addressed. Thank you.

Blessings, Honor

 

[honorthesabbath]

BTW-As I said in my original post to you, I have some reservations about this story. Here are some reasons why I said that.



I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but if this women WAS an Adventist, then she had not learned very much about what the bible has to say about those who serve the Lord (work) on the Sabbath day. Nor did she realized HOW Adventist ministers are paid and would have straightened you out immediately about them “working” on the Sabbath. Allow me to explain.



Firstly, no Adventist, especially a long time ago, would even consider turning on the radio on Sabbath. It just wasn’t/isn’t done. The only exception among SOME Adventists today is that there are now many SDA programs available on Sabbath to minister to shut-in’s and those who may have never heard the message.



Secondly, I would think that ALL SDA’s know how our pastor’s are paid. Unlike many other independent denominations, the SDA church is under the General Conferences. For instance. I live in Arkansas. Our sister state is Louisianna. We have combined to form our conference under the name of the ARKLA Conference. ALL the tithe money collected each week from ALL the churches in our conference goes to the home office in Shrevsport, La. There it is counted then divided equally among the several pastors of both states. The pastors are paid once a month. So as you can see, a pastor can chose not to preach on a Sabbath or two and STILL get paid. So all your supposed questions to her, resulting in her getting so “flustered” shouldn’t have happened since it’s a non-issue.



Now thirdly—and this is the most important…



What does the bible say about those who are “ministering to the flock” on the Sabbath day?



Mt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?



Why is it called profaning?? Because those ministers are working hard. Especially back then, circumcison was demanded to take place on the eight day of a babies birth. If the eight day fell on the weekly Sabbath, the ordinance HAD to performed. Not to mention the sacarifices and other “ceremonies” done on the Sabbath day.





So why are they “blameless”?? Because they are performing the services that God had COMMANDED. We cannot say the same thing about secular labor on the Sabbath day.



And lastly.. is this a bit self-serving???



Needless to say, she wasn't satisfied, and persisted in the idea that I was sinning, because I was breaking the ten commandments. Something ocurred to me while I patiently listened to her voice becoming more shrill with outrage as each passing moment progressed into another.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Since you admit that Saturday is the Sabbath day. And you believe that God has ordained that we keep it. (I would say the correct word would be COMMANDED us to keep it--I'm trying not to sound harsh here.) And you even have a sense of HOW God says to "keep it". Then why do you seem to be able to brush it aside with such indifference??

Rest assured that I didn't brush it aside with indifference. I believe what's written in the word of God where it says in Lev. 26:46:

"These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses."

If we take God's word for what it says, then we must accept this for what it says. It clearly states that the statues, judgments and laws were between the Lord and the nation (children) of Israel. Paul made no mention in any of his letters to the Gentile churches of their needing to observe, in a legalistic sense, the Sabbath. Jesus also said in Mark 2:27:

"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"

In your estimation, what does it mean to make something for someone as opposed to someone being made for something? What's the difference between these two concepts?

So all the while you are putting down this old lady for scorning you--you on the other hand are blatantly violating a clear commandment of the Father of this universe.

First of all, I'm not putting her down. I simply pointed out the obvious, in that she never realized until the moment I revealed to her the inconsistency of her thinking.

Secondly, are you going to say that the congregation of which you are a part would continue to pay your pastor (if he is paid) if he stopped preaching on the Sabbath? Please elaborate.

Perhaps you are both in the same boat here!! My mom used the saying, "the pot calling the kettle black".

Ahh, but I have not said that she is in error for error's own sake. I was simply offering to her a fresh new perspective of something to which she had never given thought. She obviously didn't like the implications, but I believe she was being honest when initially answering. She's a dear, precious woman who I think truly loved the Lord and served Him with and from her heart.

As I said in the beginning, please--don't think I am picking on you, but I see some inconsistency here that needed to be addressed. Thank you.

No problem. I welcome challenge to my sensibilities. I'm not infallible, and if there is something wrong in my belief system that needs to be changed, then it needs to be addressed.

Blessings

BTW