Worker Cooperatives

[Paradoxum]

Should companies be Worker Cooperatives?

Worker cooperative - Wikipedia


As the power of corporations increases, greater than small nations, should they be democratic?

If the power of nations is dangerous, shouldn't the power of companies be considered dangerous, and thus also in need of democracy?

The workers would have an interest in the company doing well, as well as the employees doing well... which would help the economy.

 

[Eryk]

I do support the democratization of the economic sector. But we have to learn from history: problems with worker councils in Yugoslavia and worker-controlled businesses in Spain during the civil war. In the latter, the revolutionaries simply became owners. Meet the new boss...

Doing everything by consensus and full democratic participation will work for small businesses and such, but as an association gets larger, power is concentrated into fewer hands.

Iron law of oligarchy: Michels' theory states that all complex organizations, regardless of how democratic they are when started, eventually develop into oligarchies. Michels observed that since no sufficiently large and complex organization can function purely as a direct democracy, power within an organization will always get delegated to individuals within that group, elected or otherwise.

 

[RDKirk]

I do support the democratization of the economic sector. But we have to learn from history: problems with worker councils in Yugoslavia and worker-controlled businesses in Spain during the civil war. In the latter, the revolutionaries simply became owners. Meet the new boss...

Doing everything by consensus and full democratic participation will work for small businesses and such, but as an association gets larger, power is concentrated into fewer hands.

Iron law of oligarchy: Michels' theory states that all complex organizations, regardless of how democratic they are when started, eventually develop into oligarchies. Michels observed that since no sufficiently large and complex organization can function purely as a direct democracy, power within an organization will always get delegated to individuals within that group, elected or otherwise.

The US Founding Fathers had already figured that out.

 

[Vyrzaharak]

Business is at its core the most pragmatic mode of democracy. The business relies on creating and selling produce, and who needs produce or makes produce other than the individual? No satisfied customers means no demand; no satisfied employees means no supply.

 

[381465]

If all employees were motivated, ambitious, honest, efficient, etc...it would work well.

They're not.

 

[Harfelugan]

Should companies be Worker Cooperatives?

Worker cooperative - Wikipedia


As the power of corporations increases, greater than small nations, should they be democratic?

If the power of nations is dangerous, shouldn't the power of companies be considered dangerous, and thus also in need of democracy?

The workers would have an interest in the company doing well, as well as the employees doing well... which would help the economy.

It's in a corporation interests to maintain a level of moderation in it'so treatment of consumers and employees. There will be a pressing of boundaries where employees are mistreated. But these things will always bounce from extreme to another. Equilibrium will always pull towards center.

 

[Vyrzaharak]

It's in a corporation interests to maintain a level of moderation in it'so treatment of consumers and employees. There will be a pressing of boundaries where employees are mistreated. But these things will always bounce from extreme to another. Equilibrium will always pull towards center.

That's what many fail to understand. It is never in a business' best interest to lose customers or employees in a market economy, and not only due to it creating room for competition to grow.

 

[ananda]

There should be no companies at all.

 

[Vyrzaharak]

There should be no companies at all.

There should be no scarcity either (and government, for that matter). Yet it exists.

 

[381465]

There should be no companies at all.

So you don't purchase any manufactured products?

 

[ananda]

There should be no scarcity either (and government, for that matter). Yet it exists.

That's another story for another thread!

 

[ananda]

So you don't purchase any manufactured products?

The issue I have is specifically with the concept of the Corporation. Manufactured products can be made by individuals or cooperatives that are not involved with the Corporation idea.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Should companies be Worker Cooperatives?

Worker cooperative - Wikipedia


As the power of corporations increases, greater than small nations, should they be democratic?

Probably not...I'm not entirely convinced democracy is a great way to run a nation. It would seem that the interests of businesses and nations are not only different...they should be different.

If the power of nations is dangerous, shouldn't the power of companies be considered dangerous, and thus also in need of democracy?

That's a false dilemma. Even if we were to agree that companies can be dangerous, that doesn't mean they should be democratic.

The workers would have an interest in the company doing well, as well as the employees doing well... which would help the economy.

Don't workers already have an interest in the company doing well?

Your threads seem to be sharing a common theme lately Para...did you not get the raise you asked for or something?

 

[Vyrzaharak]

That's another story for another thread!

Is it....?

The issue I have is specifically with the concept of the Corporation. Manufactured products can be made by individuals or cooperatives that are not involved with the Corporation idea.

Do you accept that the corporation hinges on government protections, that would not otherwise exist?

 

[Ana the Ist]

If all employees were motivated, ambitious, honest, efficient, etc...it would work well.

They're not.

This is a great point...you can't ignore human nature in regards to these issues.

 

[ananda]

Is it....?

Do you accept that the corporation hinges on government protections, that would not otherwise exist?

Yes, and that's its fundamental flaw.

 

[Vyrzaharak]

Yes, and that's its fundamental flaw.

Then we're definitely on the same page for that. Good tidings.

 

[Paradoxum]

Probably not...I'm not entirely convinced democracy is a great way to run a nation. It would seem that the interests of businesses and nations are not only different...they should be different.

Why are they different?

That's a false dilemma. Even if we were to agree that companies can be dangerous, that doesn't mean they should be democratic.

It also doesn't mean a good solution to a similar problem wouldn't work here.

Democracy worked for nations, maybe it can work for companies (and it can work).

Don't workers already have an interest in the company doing well?

Not really. If they don't gain from profit, it doesn't matter. I can give examples.

Your threads seem to be sharing a common theme lately Para...did you not get the raise you asked for or something?

I don't accept that I should work my life away for no reason. Be a person not a sheep.

 

[Sketcher]

For that to be workable, business management would have to be required learning for everyone. Though I will say that the people at the higher levels should be taking input from the people below them.

 

[Dave-W]

Should companies be Worker Cooperatives?

How is that different from the failed idea of Communism?

"Workers of the world UNITE!"

"The proletariat must rise up and seize the means of production."