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Work vs. study.

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Created2Write

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Assumptions were made based on the little information you provided. How else are we to connect the dots, so to speak? We can help if we don't know the gist of what's going on. The question/situation makes sense to you because you're in it. We're not. We need more details to help us understand what's going on before we can offer any help. Frankly, you made it sound like your husband was ignoring your wishes which is probably why a few people assumed that he was.

No, there's nothing wrong with you wanting to go to school. However, life is a series of choices and sometimes the choices we make, effect the plans we had for the future. Being a successful parent far outweighs being a successful student or worker. Once you have kids, I am of the belief that they come first, even if it means giving up your dreams. Period. If you aren't in need of extra money, and can afford to go to school and study, and can be there for your kids, then I see no harm in going to school. I do, however, think it would be prudent to talk this over in detail with your husband to see what he would prefer you do. You don't have to agree with his opinion, but such decisions can cause great havoc if not discussed before decisions are made.

And please don't feel as though people are hounding you. I don't mean to offend, but your posts have sounded as if you regret many of your decisions, or are bitter over the outcome. And it can seem unfair; your husband get's to finish his schooling while you have to sacrifice and go along for the ride. BUT, you wanted to be a mother. In doing so, you said that you were willing to put your children above your education, where they should be. Again, it sounds like you can work out going to school, so I don't see harm in doing so, but your attitude(or at least the one that has come across in your posts) suggests that you want to go to school so that you can do what you want, instead of doing what your husband wants. Sometimes, our dreams just don't line up with our choices.
 
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Created2Write

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I've read all your posts, and all I can think of is how lucky you are!
I know you realize this, and have said how much you love being a wife/mother.

My husband is just about to go back to school. He's a tradesman, but with the economic downturn, and the area we live in, his skill is hardly paid what its worth, and including health risks - is happy to be retraining.
This means that I'm working right up to my MAT leave (a 'surprise' pregnancy btw) with him working his butt off all summer at a low income job so that we can afford schooling (we're debt free and want to keep it that way) and even then he'll have to be in school full-time w/ part-time job to keep us comfrtably afloat.

My plan was to finish my diploma (which I did) help him finish his apprenticeship (which I did) then go back to school to specialize. (I'm a librarian btw)
BUT! Remi got laid off, since being married in '08 we've never lived in an apartment longer then 12 months. Have moved across the country for work, now pregnancy...
My point is darlin', plans change.

We decided early on that Remi was going to be the bread-winner for our family. Therefore I work to support that, and in turn, he works hard to support me and our family.
Are my dreams on a shelf?? To an extent, yes.
But my dreams are changing too. It sounds like you're both blessed with good jobs, a house and children.
It's too bad you find youself discontent with that.

Peace,
- Niffer

Yes, yes, yes and yes.
 
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trustnotstress

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I've read all your posts, and all I can think of is how lucky you are!
I know you realize this, and have said how much you love being a wife/mother.

My husband is just about to go back to school. He's a tradesman, but with the economic downturn, and the area we live in, his skill is hardly paid what its worth, and including health risks - is happy to be retraining.
This means that I'm working right up to my MAT leave (a 'surprise' pregnancy btw) with him working his butt off all summer at a low income job so that we can afford schooling (we're debt free and want to keep it that way) and even then he'll have to be in school full-time w/ part-time job to keep us comfrtably afloat.

My plan was to finish my diploma (which I did) help him finish his apprenticeship (which I did) then go back to school to specialize. (I'm a librarian btw)
BUT! Remi got laid off, since being married in '08 we've never lived in an apartment longer then 12 months. Have moved across the country for work, now pregnancy...
My point is darlin', plans change.

We decided early on that Remi was going to be the bread-winner for our family. Therefore I work to support that, and in turn, he works hard to support me and our family.
Are my dreams on a shelf?? To an extent, yes.
But my dreams are changing too. It sounds like you're both blessed with good jobs, a house and children.
It's too bad you find youself discontent with that.

Peace,
- Niffer

At 24 you have a lot of years ahead for you to go back and do what you want to do. I'm not in that position. If I don't do it now I won't do it at all. Yes, I know I'm blessed and I'm content. I'm simply trying to make a decision in a situation of change and uncertainty. That is not discontent.
 
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trustnotstress

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Assumptions were made based on the little information you provided. How else are we to connect the dots, so to speak? We can help if we don't know the gist of what's going on. The question/situation makes sense to you because you're in it. We're not. We need more details to help us understand what's going on before we can offer any help. Frankly, you made it sound like your husband was ignoring your wishes which is probably why a few people assumed that he was.

No, there's nothing wrong with you wanting to go to school. However, life is a series of choices and sometimes the choices we make, effect the plans we had for the future. Being a successful parent far outweighs being a successful student or worker. Once you have kids, I am of the belief that they come first, even if it means giving up your dreams. Period. If you aren't in need of extra money, and can afford to go to school and study, and can be there for your kids, then I see no harm in going to school. I do, however, think it would be prudent to talk this over in detail with your husband to see what he would prefer you do. You don't have to agree with his opinion, but such decisions can cause great havoc if not discussed before decisions are made.

And please don't feel as though people are hounding you. I don't mean to offend, but your posts have sounded as if you regret many of your decisions, or are bitter over the outcome. And it can seem unfair; your husband get's to finish his schooling while you have to sacrifice and go along for the ride. BUT, you wanted to be a mother. In doing so, you said that you were willing to put your children above your education, where they should be. Again, it sounds like you can work out going to school, so I don't see harm in doing so, but your attitude(or at least the one that has come across in your posts) suggests that you want to go to school so that you can do what you want, instead of doing what your husband wants. Sometimes, our dreams just don't line up with our choices.

Maybe the lack of information contributed. Apologies for that. I don't disagree with anything you've said about the children coming first (I think that should have come across in my posts) and I even said to my husband that I had got my dream and become a mother and that was my primary dream. So I agree with that too. I don't regret anything. I'm just trying to make a decision and expressing the different factors going into it (and if I decided not to study, or that wasn't possible, there is nothing wrong with feeling some temporary disappointment over that!). The trouble is that my husband supports whatever decision I make so it's all over to me to make the call what I do. I'm trying to make the best decision. The decision is really work vs. study as the children are not going to be compromised. The decision isn't clear cut which it would be if we were struggling greatly. Then there would be no question. I suppose in the end I might have come to the best conclusion which is do what work I can while studying and then in a year get a job with a good income which will make the year behind it null.
 
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Niffer

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At 24 you have a lot of years ahead for you to go back and do what you want to do. I'm not in that position. Yes, I know I'm blessed and I'm content. I'm simply trying to make a decision. That is not discontent.

But at 24, I'm young for a Mom. I actually had my own little melt-down when the realization hit me.
What happened to traveling?
Living overseas?
Going back to school?
Even buying a house?

Now the only thing ahead of us for years are bills, financial struggle, hard work and very little time for rest.
We've come to accept that for at least 2 years, we're going to be broke off our you-know-what poor. To the point where we can't afford cable or internet.

I think I'm just seeing your situation through such a different lens! To me, to be able to have my home, husband in a good job, saving money and being financial stable, seems like heaven to me!
For me to understand why you would want to add on financial stress by going back to school when you technically don't have to, but want to, is difficult for me.

So I'm realizing I'm not much help to you. :(

I feel that if you want to go back to school and educate yourself more, is a wonderful thing! Education is never a bad decision.
It's the timing that can be.

I'm the first to admit that our timing could have been better - but who knew that there'd be massive lay-offs in my husbands field, that no one would be hiring, and that contraceptives would fail?

But thats life! It comes in seasons - we're treading water right now, and I just pray for the day when we can sit back and enjoy all the hard work.
I guess I envy you.

Peace,
- Niff
 
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trustnotstress

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But at 24, I'm young for a Mom. I actually had my own little melt-down when the realization hit me.
What happened to traveling?
Living overseas?
Going back to school?
Even buying a house?

Now the only thing ahead of us for years are bills, financial struggle, hard work and very little time for rest.
We've come to accept that for at least 2 years, we're going to be broke off our you-know-what poor. To the point where we can't afford cable or internet.

I think I'm just seeing your situation through such a different lens! To me, to be able to have my home, husband in a good job, saving money and being financial stable, seems like heaven to me!
For me to understand why you would want to add on financial stress by going back to school when you technically don't have to, but want to, is difficult for me.

So I'm realizing I'm not much help to you. :(

I feel that if you want to go back to school and educate yourself more, is a wonderful thing! Education is never a bad decision.
It's the timing that can be.

I'm the first to admit that our timing could have been better - but who knew that there'd be massive lay-offs in my husbands field, that no one would be hiring, and that contraceptives would fail?

But thats life! It comes in seasons - we're treading water right now, and I just pray for the day when we can sit back and enjoy all the hard work.
I guess I envy you.

Peace,
- Niff

When I was 24 I had been married for 7 years and more than the average number of children. Then looking at older couples who were financially stable probably looked to me like what you are seeing now in me. :) Travelling - you do it with the kids. Living overseas - you can do that with kids. Buying a house - takes longer to save the deposit but it can be done. At your age I didn't have a complete first degree, had insignificant work history, debt, plenty of financial stress ... but the good thing was we never had to lose an income when I had the babies. You're really personally in a better position than I was at your age in terms of employability. We could only go up from our starting point. Sure, we're good now but it has been tough. I can understand why you might feel some envy of my situation now but believe me, this has been hard work and years in the making but the way we have lived with family first has been worth the sacrifices it entailed. Your time will come. Meanwhile, enjoy your baby as they really are small for so short a time as cliche as that is. Like you say, life has seasons. Maybe when your children are older you will face a similar juggling dilemma as me, who knows :). All the best for your pregnancy. You're blessed and I know you know that and having read some of your posts I can see you'r going to be a very loving mother. Once s/he is in your arms I don't imagine you'd want to change a thing.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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In 2005, I had an internship at what was, at the time, my dream job. In order to go into that career track full-time, I needed a degree. A degree that would "only take" 2 years. My then-husband and I looked at it and determined my employee worth would go way up, our income would be greatly increased, and the plan was he'd support us and I would go to school full time. When I graduated, I'd apply that degree to a job where I could work from home and take care of our future children.

So in the winter 2006 term I enrolled and began classes. Then, while I was getting my degree, the field and its requirements changed and what I needed to be a competatively marketable employee changed along with it. 2 years wasn't going to be enough to do really anything. I really needed about 3 1/2 years. Adding that extra year and a half threw our budget, so we had to take out some loans. Then, the economy soured and things cost more, the property taxes on our house went up 10%, and his medical insurance changed and began covering almost nothing, so we were drowning in medical bills. When 2008 came around, we had planned on me working, but I was still in school trying to keep up with the changes in my field. By summer, it was unavoidable, I had to get a job. I insisted that there was no way I could study and work, so I gave up school and got an entry level temp job that paid OK, but had nothing to do with what I was getting my degree in. When that job ended, I was hired on full time elsewhere at slightly above minimum wage. I found myself not using any of my education to make myself more marketable (partial degrees mean nothing and my degree field was specialized so it meant nothing to anybody outside of that field... I wasn't more marketable in the slightest), paying of school loans (thank God I was at least smart in that respect and only had about $2,000 to pay off), and working entry-level nothing jobs that were fine... They paid the bills and there was really nothing more to it. I was satisfied with that. I had a couple jobs for the purpose of paying bills and going home. Low responsibility, acceptable income, etc etc. I made no attempts to go back to school because there was no point, I couldn't work full-time, and so on.

Then in June 2010 my son was born. Through the pregnancy I operated under my old mindset and was fine with it. Then just one day, I wasn't. I looked at him wearing clothes that were a gift. Looked at toys that were given to him by other people. Looked at the dresser I got as a hand-me-down, the crib that was a shower present from my parents. The chair that was a garbage chair I'd had forever re-appropriated from another room. I noticed that the only thing I had provided for him in that room was a stuffed animal, his sheets, and a few clothes. Everything was from somebody else and I was so ashamed. I thought of my finances... Check-to-check, week-to-week, no savings, no security should something happen. I was getting by fine, but in all honesty I was doing nothing to make sure that he'd get better than what I had out of life. I don't want him to be 29 years old with a half-finished degree and just paying the bills and not saving. I don't want him to look at a financially irresponsible parent who can't afford to support him should anything unexpected happen.

And since that point, he's been my driving motivator.

In the working world, I was still totally unmarketable. The only thing I could do was the same old entry level, low paying jobs I had before. Only this time with him and the schedule restrictions, those jobs weren't enough because I'd need daycare. Not only did I not want to put him in daycare, I couldn't afford it with the jobs that I could get. So I worked nights. No need for daycare, and I was lucky enough to find a job where he could be with me. I'm home during the day, I sleep when he sleeps, no daycare, and I have an income. Then, through networking, I got a part-time job with flexible hours in the evening. More income, still no need for daycare. Then I scoured the internet for ways to save money. I was able to get a job that, while it doesn't pay much, it reimburses almost all of the fun entertainment things (dinners out, movies, even shopping) that keep you from going crazy. And I started saving, first 10%, then 10% and change (so if I budget a paycheck to be say $100 and it turns out to be $110, I put the $10 in savings) I applied for work-at-home day jobs, all the stuff everybody does to save money.

While waiting for work-at-home jobs to pan out, I took some of the money I saved and used it as seed money for an at-home business. It doesn't bring in much, but all of it is outside of my anticipated budget so it goes into savings. I had anticipated an at-home job and that's what I planned for, but now the business at home is taking off so my plans have changed. I got a financial planner through my bank and was able to set up investment accounts that make the most of my savings. Then I spoke to somebody else about going back to school, which I've been doing for awhile now through a regular college's online program. But they helped me find scholarships (because there's a scholarship and a discount for EVERYTHING) and I'm getting a degree that's overall much more useful than the one I had. Hopefully by the time my son is in school, my degree will be done and I can get a job during school hours.

Last year at this time, I was working a garbage job, paying bills and saving nothing. Now I'm in school, still working garbage jobs (well, one garbage job, one future career, and two interesting side ones) but I know how to better spend and appropriate my money which has allowed me in 8 months to sock away not hundreds, but thousands for my son and for our household.

The point? If you had told me a year ago that I'd have 4 seperate sources of income, a savings that provided a more than moderate buffer against disaster, a savings for my son, investment accounts, and I'd be back in school, I'd have said you were nuts. And even back when I went to school full-time before, I let it slide because it was too hard to work full time and go to school. I probably would have told you back then that it was too hard, it wasn't part of the plan, I couldn't do it, etc etc. But plans change and motivations change. And if you find the right motivator, I'm sure that you could do both if you wanted to. It will not be easy, it'll be hard. I'd be a liar if I said that there weren't times where I wasn't so frustrated and discouraged I wanted to give up. It's been so tempting, so so so tempting, more than once. Especially as during that time my son has been diagnosed with a illness which makes his daily care sometimes insanely difficult. It's hard to juggle working at home, working at night, and a 9 month old who sometimes just cries all days for hours on end. It's harder than hard. On really, really rough days where he's sick and there's so much going on, I've shed a few tears thinking that I'd let him down, myself down, or drop the ball. But you find your motivation and you push through it if you really want it.

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on what you deserve, what you feel is your owed, or what "your turn" is in the grand scheme of life. Because everybody here deserves higher education if they want it, higher income if they want it, more security if they want it. But deserving it and earning it are two totally different things and no matter how much one is owed something or deserves something, they've got to actually work for it and maybe fight the tide a bit to get it. What it boils down to is looking at your life situation, looking at what needs to be done and comparing it to your goals and what you want to be done and asking yourself if you're willing to do what you're willing to put the work into it. I'm sure there were times where it was much easier for your husband to stop getting his degrees, yet he still has them. It means to me that he identified his motivator and made the choice to push through, even when it was easier to give up, even when it meant sacraficing free time, family time, what have you. It sounds like you've yet to do the same.

Focus on what you're willing to do to meet your goals, not what others should be doing to give you your goals.

As for the "I'm getting to old" excuse, the "if I don't do it now, I will never do it" rationale... My advisor is graduating with her Masters in June. She is 54 years old and only started going back to school after being laid off from a job she had for more than 20 years and realizing she was totally unmarketable in the employment world. There is no maximum age for admission to College. You can always go back to school. You'll make the most of your degree when you're younger, but nothing is stopping anybody in their mid-to-late 40's from getting a degree.
 
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JaneFW

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Things are tight due to some unexpected financial demands. Hence I am looking for a job. That is fine and I enjoy working but we had an agreement that I would stay home with the kids while he studied and worked for a bit and then it would be my turn to finish my studies. I am studying and would love to work as well but am very limited in what is open to me due to needing to be there for the children. Things are tight but not impossible. What I really want my husband to say to me is that he can see I have enough on my plate with the family, what I do at home is valuable and for the next year things will be tight but we will be ok so just focus on study and the family and don't worry about having to work until I'm done. If I get a job, and I have some applications in, I will take one but I don't know how I will study at the same time. I may have to decide between study and work. I know it's possible to do both but at this time of my life don't know if I can. Am I just being selfish about wanting to study?
Can you study online? I don't mean Phoenix or one of those other phony degrees, but many local colleges offer entire degrees online. That would allow you to work, and look after the children, and still pursue your dreams. Yes, it will be tough - don't think that online study is easy, because it's not, and it's very time consuming, but to allow you to do everything, you might just have to suck it up and look for alternative ways to study.
 
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JaneFW

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As for the "I'm getting to old" excuse, the "if I don't do it now, I will never do it" rationale... My advisor is graduating with her Masters in June. She is 54 years old and only started going back to school after being laid off from a job she had for more than 20 years and realizing she was totally unmarketable in the employment world. There is no maximum age for admission to College. You can always go back to school. You'll make the most of your degree when you're younger, but nothing is stopping anybody in their mid-to-late 40's from getting a degree.
More power to your mom. I'm 48 and just going back to school. The only limitation with age is that many employers will not hire a 54 year old woman who is newly degreed and who may have little to no experience in the field in which she has her Masters. To a prospective employer, an employee that age (male or female) is trouble with a capital T. She is more likely to have health issues (their reasoning, not mine), and she simply isn't going to be available for very long, because she is close to retirement age. They also think that she is slower to learn, regardless of the letters after her name. They will take any day, a man in mid-20's who has many years to give to that employer. I know this because I am affiliated with the HR manager in my job, and I know that this is something that employers look at very closely when receiving applications. And I work for a huge organization which employs over 6000 people, so I know that what happens here is replicated all over the country.

I kind of feel the same way that the OP feels. When I get done with my BA, I will be over 50 and my chances will be more limited. Fortunately, I already work in the administration field, and my degree is in Business Administration, so I expect to step up within the field I already inhabit. "Expect to" isn't the same as having the title or the money of course! Getting hired over the past few years has been a struggle, and when I have found out who got the job I applied for, the applicant was better than me in no other way than she was younger than me!! Every time!

So, again, more power to the oldies/wrinklies getting degree, but they sometimes don't help an awful lot.

AND, would anyone suggest this to a guy?
 
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JaneFW

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He actually earns less in our new location where the cost of living is higher, and we lost my income, BUT that is not a problem. It's still a good income. We moved for reasons relating to his health. Hence I left my job reasoning there are other jobs but only have one husband. To move I also changed the specialty I was planning to go into (which reduces my employability to a more narrow field but that is fine) left my friends, family - so yes, I have given up everything to make this move for him but I do not mind because the reasons for doing so were sound and I accepted the changes that came with it. What I have not given up is the most important thing and that is him. If I had to make the same choice again I would still make it for the same reasons. I see it as a sideways move for me and life is full of change, this is just another, no big deal. But it has brought about big changes that probably add to my internal conflict when re-establishing a family in a new location. Other than changing my specialty, the idea I moved with was that I could continue doing what I was doing, just in a different location.

What information do you need? Studying for a year significantly increases my earning power and employability and I have waited 15 years for 'my turn'. During that 15 years I have given everything to my family. Is it so wrong that I want to have my one year now?

What gave rise to the question is my own internal conflict regarding whether what I want to do is still the right choice. Somewhere along the line someone assumed my husband was putting the pressure on which is incorrect. I am seeking to resolve this conflict but this is clearly not the place to do it. That's fine. I will do what I need to do. The ideal person to resolve this with is my husband but he's not very helpful in discussing this and will just tell me to do what I want because he feels I am owed this year. It is me questioning if that is still the right thing for the family, not him.

It is me, personally, who can see that it would be beneficial if there were a little extra cashflow. The problems to resolve are:
1/ How do I do that and meet the family needs at the same time?
2/ For the sake of a year is it worth giving up the study?
3/ Can I study and work at the same time? I've done it before but the question now is over one specific job that is more hours than I can do while I study.

In this, my family is not going to go bankrupt. Everyone has food, clothes, housing, you name it. They want for nothing. Right now working would be just for some extra buffer funds.

I don't know what other information you could possibly need than this and unless someone has something constructive to offer, I think I might have come to the wrong place as A LOT of assumptions have been made about my husband, me and my relationship that aren't accurate.

At this point, I think I should study and decline the job on the table and look for one with less hours. Everyone happy. I'm not sure someone who hasn't experienced these conflicts is able to relate to how hard it can be to resolve. Especially feeling a bit 'lost' in the new location doesn't help having no family, friends, job, etc.
I feel for ya, sweetie. I left not only my family and friends, but also my country to be with my husband. Even after 10 years, I still feel lost here. We have friends, but friends don't give the kind of support and encouragement that a family does. His family sees him and the kids, but apparently I am invisible, despite the fact that I took on the "traditionally male bread-winner" position. :(

People are always making assumptions around here - it just goes with the territory, but I hope that you keep talking and generating discussion, and I sincerely hope and pray that it helps you.
 
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FaithPrevails

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Actually I was hoping for some discussion on the ins and outs of this situation. Obviously, in this day and age, few people understand what it is like to resolve a lot of conflicting demands for a woman in a traditional caregiving role. I could just join the mainstream and put my children in care and avoid any issues but that isn't what we want for them. Women matter too you know. In my job I spend a lot of time affirming women as mothers and the value of their role. Clearly it's important someone does that.

I saw some great advice early on about whether or not you had discussed the pressure you were feeling with your husband. I haven't read yet (still making my way through the thread) as to whether you actually did that and found out how he really feels about the "money being tight" matter.

It sounds as if you may be trying to work it out that you can both study and contribute some financially without sacrificing what is in the best interest of your family. Have you considered how that might affect the rest of the demands - house-wise, etc. that are on you and discussed with your husband where he may be willing to take some of the load off of you for the next year?

I have to say that I find it interesting that you are adamant that the two of you are a team and that there is no "yours and mine" in your relationship, yet this thread seems like a very autonomous decision is being made about all of this. I don't say that to seem critical or raise defenses. I'm just wondering if you had put this into that perspective yet.
 
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trustnotstress

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It sounds as if you may be trying to work it out that you can both study and contribute some financially without sacrificing what is in the best interest of your family. .

Absolutely 100% on the ball.
Whatever people want to think they can. I'm just going to make the best decision for my children and that is for me to be here before and after school and if I find a job that fits with school hours for 3 days, I'll give up the one day a week vounteer work I do and take that while I continue studying. The children have over and above what they need so that's quite ok and in a year they will benefit from the study.
 
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In 2005, I had an internship at what was, at the time, my dream job. In order to go into that career track full-time, I needed a degree. A degree that would "only take" 2 years. My then-husband and I looked at it and determined my employee worth would go way up, our income would be greatly increased, and the plan was he'd support us and I would go to school full time. When I graduated, I'd apply that degree to a job where I could work from home and take care of our future children.

So in the winter 2006 term I enrolled and began classes. Then, while I was getting my degree, the field and its requirements changed and what I needed to be a competatively marketable employee changed along with it. 2 years wasn't going to be enough to do really anything. I really needed about 3 1/2 years. Adding that extra year and a half threw our budget, so we had to take out some loans. Then, the economy soured and things cost more, the property taxes on our house went up 10%, and his medical insurance changed and began covering almost nothing, so we were drowning in medical bills. When 2008 came around, we had planned on me working, but I was still in school trying to keep up with the changes in my field. By summer, it was unavoidable, I had to get a job. I insisted that there was no way I could study and work, so I gave up school and got an entry level temp job that paid OK, but had nothing to do with what I was getting my degree in. When that job ended, I was hired on full time elsewhere at slightly above minimum wage. I found myself not using any of my education to make myself more marketable (partial degrees mean nothing and my degree field was specialized so it meant nothing to anybody outside of that field... I wasn't more marketable in the slightest), paying of school loans (thank God I was at least smart in that respect and only had about $2,000 to pay off), and working entry-level nothing jobs that were fine... They paid the bills and there was really nothing more to it. I was satisfied with that. I had a couple jobs for the purpose of paying bills and going home. Low responsibility, acceptable income, etc etc. I made no attempts to go back to school because there was no point, I couldn't work full-time, and so on.

Then in June 2010 my son was born. Through the pregnancy I operated under my old mindset and was fine with it. Then just one day, I wasn't. I looked at him wearing clothes that were a gift. Looked at toys that were given to him by other people. Looked at the dresser I got as a hand-me-down, the crib that was a shower present from my parents. The chair that was a garbage chair I'd had forever re-appropriated from another room. I noticed that the only thing I had provided for him in that room was a stuffed animal, his sheets, and a few clothes. Everything was from somebody else and I was so ashamed. I thought of my finances... Check-to-check, week-to-week, no savings, no security should something happen. I was getting by fine, but in all honesty I was doing nothing to make sure that he'd get better than what I had out of life. I don't want him to be 29 years old with a half-finished degree and just paying the bills and not saving. I don't want him to look at a financially irresponsible parent who can't afford to support him should anything unexpected happen.

And since that point, he's been my driving motivator.

In the working world, I was still totally unmarketable. The only thing I could do was the same old entry level, low paying jobs I had before. Only this time with him and the schedule restrictions, those jobs weren't enough because I'd need daycare. Not only did I not want to put him in daycare, I couldn't afford it with the jobs that I could get. So I worked nights. No need for daycare, and I was lucky enough to find a job where he could be with me. I'm home during the day, I sleep when he sleeps, no daycare, and I have an income. Then, through networking, I got a part-time job with flexible hours in the evening. More income, still no need for daycare. Then I scoured the internet for ways to save money. I was able to get a job that, while it doesn't pay much, it reimburses almost all of the fun entertainment things (dinners out, movies, even shopping) that keep you from going crazy. And I started saving, first 10%, then 10% and change (so if I budget a paycheck to be say $100 and it turns out to be $110, I put the $10 in savings) I applied for work-at-home day jobs, all the stuff everybody does to save money.

While waiting for work-at-home jobs to pan out, I took some of the money I saved and used it as seed money for an at-home business. It doesn't bring in much, but all of it is outside of my anticipated budget so it goes into savings. I had anticipated an at-home job and that's what I planned for, but now the business at home is taking off so my plans have changed. I got a financial planner through my bank and was able to set up investment accounts that make the most of my savings. Then I spoke to somebody else about going back to school, which I've been doing for awhile now through a regular college's online program. But they helped me find scholarships (because there's a scholarship and a discount for EVERYTHING) and I'm getting a degree that's overall much more useful than the one I had. Hopefully by the time my son is in school, my degree will be done and I can get a job during school hours.

Last year at this time, I was working a garbage job, paying bills and saving nothing. Now I'm in school, still working garbage jobs (well, one garbage job, one future career, and two interesting side ones) but I know how to better spend and appropriate my money which has allowed me in 8 months to sock away not hundreds, but thousands for my son and for our household.

The point? If you had told me a year ago that I'd have 4 seperate sources of income, a savings that provided a more than moderate buffer against disaster, a savings for my son, investment accounts, and I'd be back in school, I'd have said you were nuts. And even back when I went to school full-time before, I let it slide because it was too hard to work full time and go to school. I probably would have told you back then that it was too hard, it wasn't part of the plan, I couldn't do it, etc etc. But plans change and motivations change. And if you find the right motivator, I'm sure that you could do both if you wanted to. It will not be easy, it'll be hard. I'd be a liar if I said that there weren't times where I wasn't so frustrated and discouraged I wanted to give up. It's been so tempting, so so so tempting, more than once. Especially as during that time my son has been diagnosed with a illness which makes his daily care sometimes insanely difficult. It's hard to juggle working at home, working at night, and a 9 month old who sometimes just cries all days for hours on end. It's harder than hard. On really, really rough days where he's sick and there's so much going on, I've shed a few tears thinking that I'd let him down, myself down, or drop the ball. But you find your motivation and you push through it if you really want it.

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on what you deserve, what you feel is your owed, or what "your turn" is in the grand scheme of life. Because everybody here deserves higher education if they want it, higher income if they want it, more security if they want it. But deserving it and earning it are two totally different things and no matter how much one is owed something or deserves something, they've got to actually work for it and maybe fight the tide a bit to get it. What it boils down to is looking at your life situation, looking at what needs to be done and comparing it to your goals and what you want to be done and asking yourself if you're willing to do what you're willing to put the work into it. I'm sure there were times where it was much easier for your husband to stop getting his degrees, yet he still has them. It means to me that he identified his motivator and made the choice to push through, even when it was easier to give up, even when it meant sacraficing free time, family time, what have you. It sounds like you've yet to do the same.

Focus on what you're willing to do to meet your goals, not what others should be doing to give you your goals.

As for the "I'm getting to old" excuse, the "if I don't do it now, I will never do it" rationale... My advisor is graduating with her Masters in June. She is 54 years old and only started going back to school after being laid off from a job she had for more than 20 years and realizing she was totally unmarketable in the employment world. There is no maximum age for admission to College. You can always go back to school. You'll make the most of your degree when you're younger, but nothing is stopping anybody in their mid-to-late 40's from getting a degree.

This is an amazing post. I totally agree with this.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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More power to your mom. I'm 48 and just going back to school. The only limitation with age is that many employers will not hire a 54 year old woman who is newly degreed and who may have little to no experience in the field in which she has her Masters. To a prospective employer, an employee that age (male or female) is trouble with a capital T. She is more likely to have health issues (their reasoning, not mine), and she simply isn't going to be available for very long, because she is close to retirement age. They also think that she is slower to learn, regardless of the letters after her name. They will take any day, a man in mid-20's who has many years to give to that employer. I know this because I am affiliated with the HR manager in my job, and I know that this is something that employers look at very closely when receiving applications. And I work for a huge organization which employs over 6000 people, so I know that what happens here is replicated all over the country.

I kind of feel the same way that the OP feels. When I get done with my BA, I will be over 50 and my chances will be more limited. Fortunately, I already work in the administration field, and my degree is in Business Administration, so I expect to step up within the field I already inhabit. "Expect to" isn't the same as having the title or the money of course! Getting hired over the past few years has been a struggle, and when I have found out who got the job I applied for, the applicant was better than me in no other way than she was younger than me!! Every time!

So, again, more power to the oldies/wrinklies getting degree, but they sometimes don't help an awful lot.

AND, would anyone suggest this to a guy?

The age issue is a knife that cuts both ways. My brother got a fantastic dual degree from Texas A&M, one in Wildlife Sciences and one in Computer Science. When he left college, he found that getting jobs was difficult... He was just another early 20-something with a degree looking for a job. He wasn't established anywhere and as far as employers saw, there was nothing keeping him anywhere. They saw a 20 something trying to build a resume and not a long-term employee. It was, and is, hard for him to stand out in the employment world.

In the end, I think the lesson with degrees and college is that it's not the magical band-aid to a slumping career unless you've got a plan in place beyond get degree, then get job, and age can hinder you on either end. I graduated high school (after almost failing Freshman and Sophomore year) with a two-year technical certificate (back when that meant something) where the program that gave the degree set me up with an internship and after graduation, I had no issues finding a job even though it was an employers market. I built work and educational experience with the assistance of my program and at 18 I was landing jobs where my peers were in their mid-to-late 20s, even their 30s. Whereas my brother who graduated 4 years ago or so has yet to land a steady job. He's just getting internships, doing what my program assisted me with while I was getting a degree.

As a ray of hope... One of the places I work now and had worked previously they actually prefered people as new employees in their 50's for one very important reason... Retirement. They most likely will work without wanting to bounce around jobs, but not long enough to qualify for retirement bonuses.
 
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trustnotstress

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In 2005, I had an internship at what was, at the time, my dream job. In order to go into that career track full-time, I needed a degree. A degree that would "only take" 2 years. My then-husband and I looked at it and determined my employee worth would go way up, our income would be greatly increased, and the plan was he'd support us and I would go to school full time. When I graduated, I'd apply that degree to a job where I could work from home and take care of our future children.

So in the winter 2006 term I enrolled and began classes. Then, while I was getting my degree, the field and its requirements changed and what I needed to be a competatively marketable employee changed along with it. 2 years wasn't going to be enough to do really anything. I really needed about 3 1/2 years. Adding that extra year and a half threw our budget, so we had to take out some loans. Then, the economy soured and things cost more, the property taxes on our house went up 10%, and his medical insurance changed and began covering almost nothing, so we were drowning in medical bills. When 2008 came around, we had planned on me working, but I was still in school trying to keep up with the changes in my field. By summer, it was unavoidable, I had to get a job. I insisted that there was no way I could study and work, so I gave up school and got an entry level temp job that paid OK, but had nothing to do with what I was getting my degree in. When that job ended, I was hired on full time elsewhere at slightly above minimum wage. I found myself not using any of my education to make myself more marketable (partial degrees mean nothing and my degree field was specialized so it meant nothing to anybody outside of that field... I wasn't more marketable in the slightest), paying of school loans (thank God I was at least smart in that respect and only had about $2,000 to pay off), and working entry-level nothing jobs that were fine... They paid the bills and there was really nothing more to it. I was satisfied with that. I had a couple jobs for the purpose of paying bills and going home. Low responsibility, acceptable income, etc etc. I made no attempts to go back to school because there was no point, I couldn't work full-time, and so on.

Then in June 2010 my son was born. Through the pregnancy I operated under my old mindset and was fine with it. Then just one day, I wasn't. I looked at him wearing clothes that were a gift. Looked at toys that were given to him by other people. Looked at the dresser I got as a hand-me-down, the crib that was a shower present from my parents. The chair that was a garbage chair I'd had forever re-appropriated from another room. I noticed that the only thing I had provided for him in that room was a stuffed animal, his sheets, and a few clothes. Everything was from somebody else and I was so ashamed. I thought of my finances... Check-to-check, week-to-week, no savings, no security should something happen. I was getting by fine, but in all honesty I was doing nothing to make sure that he'd get better than what I had out of life. I don't want him to be 29 years old with a half-finished degree and just paying the bills and not saving. I don't want him to look at a financially irresponsible parent who can't afford to support him should anything unexpected happen.

And since that point, he's been my driving motivator.

In the working world, I was still totally unmarketable. The only thing I could do was the same old entry level, low paying jobs I had before. Only this time with him and the schedule restrictions, those jobs weren't enough because I'd need daycare. Not only did I not want to put him in daycare, I couldn't afford it with the jobs that I could get. So I worked nights. No need for daycare, and I was lucky enough to find a job where he could be with me. I'm home during the day, I sleep when he sleeps, no daycare, and I have an income. Then, through networking, I got a part-time job with flexible hours in the evening. More income, still no need for daycare. Then I scoured the internet for ways to save money. I was able to get a job that, while it doesn't pay much, it reimburses almost all of the fun entertainment things (dinners out, movies, even shopping) that keep you from going crazy. And I started saving, first 10%, then 10% and change (so if I budget a paycheck to be say $100 and it turns out to be $110, I put the $10 in savings) I applied for work-at-home day jobs, all the stuff everybody does to save money.

While waiting for work-at-home jobs to pan out, I took some of the money I saved and used it as seed money for an at-home business. It doesn't bring in much, but all of it is outside of my anticipated budget so it goes into savings. I had anticipated an at-home job and that's what I planned for, but now the business at home is taking off so my plans have changed. I got a financial planner through my bank and was able to set up investment accounts that make the most of my savings. Then I spoke to somebody else about going back to school, which I've been doing for awhile now through a regular college's online program. But they helped me find scholarships (because there's a scholarship and a discount for EVERYTHING) and I'm getting a degree that's overall much more useful than the one I had. Hopefully by the time my son is in school, my degree will be done and I can get a job during school hours.

Last year at this time, I was working a garbage job, paying bills and saving nothing. Now I'm in school, still working garbage jobs (well, one garbage job, one future career, and two interesting side ones) but I know how to better spend and appropriate my money which has allowed me in 8 months to sock away not hundreds, but thousands for my son and for our household.

The point? If you had told me a year ago that I'd have 4 seperate sources of income, a savings that provided a more than moderate buffer against disaster, a savings for my son, investment accounts, and I'd be back in school, I'd have said you were nuts. And even back when I went to school full-time before, I let it slide because it was too hard to work full time and go to school. I probably would have told you back then that it was too hard, it wasn't part of the plan, I couldn't do it, etc etc. But plans change and motivations change. And if you find the right motivator, I'm sure that you could do both if you wanted to. It will not be easy, it'll be hard. I'd be a liar if I said that there weren't times where I wasn't so frustrated and discouraged I wanted to give up. It's been so tempting, so so so tempting, more than once. Especially as during that time my son has been diagnosed with a illness which makes his daily care sometimes insanely difficult. It's hard to juggle working at home, working at night, and a 9 month old who sometimes just cries all days for hours on end. It's harder than hard. On really, really rough days where he's sick and there's so much going on, I've shed a few tears thinking that I'd let him down, myself down, or drop the ball. But you find your motivation and you push through it if you really want it.

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on what you deserve, what you feel is your owed, or what "your turn" is in the grand scheme of life. Because everybody here deserves higher education if they want it, higher income if they want it, more security if they want it. But deserving it and earning it are two totally different things and no matter how much one is owed something or deserves something, they've got to actually work for it and maybe fight the tide a bit to get it. What it boils down to is looking at your life situation, looking at what needs to be done and comparing it to your goals and what you want to be done and asking yourself if you're willing to do what you're willing to put the work into it. I'm sure there were times where it was much easier for your husband to stop getting his degrees, yet he still has them. It means to me that he identified his motivator and made the choice to push through, even when it was easier to give up, even when it meant sacraficing free time, family time, what have you. It sounds like you've yet to do the same.

Focus on what you're willing to do to meet your goals, not what others should be doing to give you your goals.

As for the "I'm getting to old" excuse, the "if I don't do it now, I will never do it" rationale... My advisor is graduating with her Masters in June. She is 54 years old and only started going back to school after being laid off from a job she had for more than 20 years and realizing she was totally unmarketable in the employment world. There is no maximum age for admission to College. You can always go back to school. You'll make the most of your degree when you're younger, but nothing is stopping anybody in their mid-to-late 40's from getting a degree.

Honestly, your situation doesn't sound that challenging in terms of obstacles compared to some. FYI, my husband had a very easy time completing his degrees and I recall him going into his PhD telling me how much he loved the student lifestyle.

I will not do it later if I don't do it now for reasons that have nothing to do with age.

My husband did the maths last night and declared that it wasn't worth me working for the next year in financial terms so I should just take a job if it has appeal to me. I'm still going to look for something that works for the family because I'd like to work. I was just concerned about the number of hours the job in question was for.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Honestly, your situation doesn't sound that challenging in terms of obstacles compared to some.

So if balancing 4 jobs and school with an ill infant who requires more care than normal for a child isn't that challenging, working a job and working on a degree while grown children are in school should be no problem, right?

FYI, my husband had a very easy time completing his degrees and I recall him going into his PhD telling me how much he loved the student lifestyle.

Enjoying something does not mean it's easy. I enjoy the job I've selected for a career and the education I have to get to further it very very much, but it's still not easy. It comes with challenges and debt and pressure. Heck, the job that I have that's the absolute easiest is the one I hate the most.

I will not do it later if I don't do it now for reasons that have nothing to do with age.

I find it hard to find what exactly would occur to make going to school "later" something that's impossible.

My husband did the maths last night and declared that it wasn't worth me working for the next year in financial terms so I should just take a job if it has appeal to me. I'm still going to look for something that works for the family because I'd like to work. I was just concerned about the number of hours the job in question was for.

Which is not what the original complaint you had at the beginning of the thread was. You were clear you felt you shouldn't have to work and wanted to go to school because it was "your turn" and it was "just a year" of living tightly for you to achieve your dream. I didn't gather from those posts that your issue was you wanted to work, but didn't know how many hours you should do. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
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trustnotstress

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tropical wilds - the issue was over a SPECIFIC job offer I had that was far more hours than I felt I could do while studying and the dilemma whether I should stop studying to take THAT job that was a sure thing or hold out and find another (not knowing if there would be another option). I have worked and studied before and as someone who tends to want to do it all and overloads herself, am being very careful about it. I enjoy working but will not compromise the family for it. In all honesty, if a job came along that motivated me to give up the study altogether, I wouldn't be sorry.

Your situation is challenging, studying with any baby is challenging, but everything is relative. That's not to belittle the challenges you are dealing with but I just had other examples I know of in mind. I don't feel the need to share every challenge in my family here. And multiple jobs and study ... at the same time, done that.

The snotiness was in response to what I perceived as your holier than thou tone and the assumptions you made about my unwillingness to work, attitudes you assumed I held that I do not and how much harder you had it without knowing my full circumstances.

We are choosing to pay our children's college fees up front and in full so they won't have loans. Currently we only have one son in college. That will increase in the coming years and I will need to work so I will not complete the study later if I don't do it now as I find it more important to pay my children's fees so won't be able to pay my own.
 
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Honestly, trustnotstress, you have been defensive since the thread was opened. People don't have to agree with you, and you don't have to agree with them. But, when you come to a forum and ask for people's opinions/advice, you need to understand that some people are going to disagree with you, and see things differently than you based on their own circumstances. You asked for the advice. Getting upset because someone gave an honest opinion is very immature. Snottiness should not be given, no matter the reason. If you disagree, then there is no reason to politely disagree.

You have made assumptions here about many of the people who have posted. Just because Tropical Winds gives advice and/or an opinion you disagree with doesn't mean she's rubbing her experience in your face. Honestly, you need to learn to accept what people have to say, even if you disagree with them, without getting so uptight, or don't ask for advice on a forum.
 
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It is sad that women face these difficult situations today and mothering is seen as a secondary occupation so often. As long as the children are fed and happy then the almighty dollar should be the last consideration. I understand what it is like to be pulled in many directions at once and wanting to make the right choice. When all else fails, go with your gut. In five years, what decision will you be happy with? If you have prayed and this is such a battle it can't be right. The right way will bring peace.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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tropical wilds - the issue was over a SPECIFIC job offer I had that was far more hours than I felt I could do while studying and the dilemma whether I should stop studying to take THAT job that was a sure thing or hold out and find another (not knowing if there would be another option).I have worked and studied before and as someone who tends to want to do it all and overloads herself, am being very careful about it. I enjoy working but will not compromise the family for it. In all honesty, if a job came along that motivated me to give up the study altogether, I wouldn't be sorry.

Ok, this description is very different than what your OP and subsequent posts said. In fact, it's pretty much night and day different.

Your situation is challenging, studying with any baby is challenging, but everything is relative. That's not to belittle the challenges you are dealing with but I just had other examples I know of in mind. I don't feel the need to share every challenge in my family here. And multiple jobs and study ... at the same time, done that.

I don't feel the need to share every challenge either. I shared my experience and how I thought it related to yours along with my advice. And I'm sorry, but all you've done is belittle. First you felt the need to belittle me with the whole sainthood comment, then again when you said my situation is "not that challenging," and again just now when you imply again that the value of what I'm doing and the challenge it presents is relative.

Look, I'm sharing my experiences. You seem to want to make it a discussion about who works harder and longer and therefore is in the most righteous misery. To that I say fine, whatever. I'm not out to win a put-upon contest. I was just replying to the original intent of your post, which has subsequently changed.

The snotiness was in response to what I perceived as your holier than thou tone and the assumptions you made about my unwillingness to work, attitudes you assumed I held that I do not and how much harder you had it without knowing my full circumstances.

The whole point of my post was you do what you have to do and weight out goals and priorities to make it work by finding your motivation, and I maintain that. I shared my "ah-ha" moment, my motivations, my goals, and how about going to get it. I'm sorry if you see that, which I thought was relevant, as some cry for sainthood.

I didn't say anything about you being unwilling to work, nor say anything about attitudes you had in the original post, just talked about what worked for me. Take it, don't take it, your choice. Personally I think you posted with an idea of what you wanted to hear and you've decided to get in a frenzy over the people who don't provide that. In which case I hope somebody else gets something from what I shared, and it looks like they did.

And for somebody who is defensive about supposed comments I made about your situation and how that makes me a holier-than-thou person in the running for sainthood, you seem to have absolutely no problem making some judgments about what I do with my life in terms of how hard I work or how challenging it is. So perhaps before you take up that banner, you examine your comments. Because as you said, you don't know about me or my personal situation so you can't possibly leap to the conclusions that you have since you don't know my full circumstances.

We are choosing to pay our children's college fees up front and in full so they won't have loans. Currently we only have one son in college. That will increase in the coming years and I will need to work so I will not complete the study later if I don't do it now as I find it more important to pay my children's fees so won't be able to pay my own.

You could always do it after they go through college. So really, if you don't go back it'd be your choice, not because you can't. Which was the point.
 
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