Can anyone explain the seemingly contradiction between Romans 3:28, 4:1-25 and James 2:14-26? Are there different kinds of judgements on christians, and the work done by a christian is the measure for such judgement?
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Work and belief
- Thread starter ywl
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Restless mind, peaceful soul.
Very good question! It has been discussed and debated by theologians throughout the centuries. There is not one universally accepted answer, but the most common would probably be something like this:
Faith in God and the acceptance of His grace is required and sufficient for salvation. Good works on Earth are also very important. A person is not saved or condemned by works alone, but works are an indication of where a person is on his or her journey in the Holy Spirit. Good works show good progress. Lack of good works may indicate shallow faith or false commitment. But works are not just something that flows out of us like a fountain with no effort. The Bible uses terms like strive, race, press, strain, and push when describing how we should live our lives. So while we can have peace and joy in the knowledge that our salvation is secure, we shouldn't be complacent. We should make the most of our time here.
Faith in God and the acceptance of His grace is required and sufficient for salvation. Good works on Earth are also very important. A person is not saved or condemned by works alone, but works are an indication of where a person is on his or her journey in the Holy Spirit. Good works show good progress. Lack of good works may indicate shallow faith or false commitment. But works are not just something that flows out of us like a fountain with no effort. The Bible uses terms like strive, race, press, strain, and push when describing how we should live our lives. So while we can have peace and joy in the knowledge that our salvation is secure, we shouldn't be complacent. We should make the most of our time here.
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I think of it this way --
Salvation was a gift that was promised, that is not dependent on our goodness. It is like family relationships, where we don't give up our children when they are bad.
Being invited to be involved in God's kingdom reminds me more of work or a committee -- we are asked to be involved when we show interest and effort to be responsible. We get excited about God's strategies and what He is doing, and want to be a part of it. When we are given a little to do and carry it out, He gives us more to do.
We don't lose our sonship if we don't do well on the assignment. But we don't get asked to do more, or get invited to the meetings if we sabotage the plans. Our desire to see God help people is our motivation for good works. Compassion for people in difficult situations.
Salvation was a gift that was promised, that is not dependent on our goodness. It is like family relationships, where we don't give up our children when they are bad.
Being invited to be involved in God's kingdom reminds me more of work or a committee -- we are asked to be involved when we show interest and effort to be responsible. We get excited about God's strategies and what He is doing, and want to be a part of it. When we are given a little to do and carry it out, He gives us more to do.
We don't lose our sonship if we don't do well on the assignment. But we don't get asked to do more, or get invited to the meetings if we sabotage the plans. Our desire to see God help people is our motivation for good works. Compassion for people in difficult situations.
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Salvation is an unmerited gift. But as recipients of that gift we have responsibilities as how we participate in its outworking. That means our stewardship will come under some scrutiny as some stage
John
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John
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Thank you all for your reply. It sounds like a very difficult question.
What I think is, first of all, belief out of mouth may not be out of heart. So we may hear some people say they trust in Jesus Christ but they are not in fact.
People, who really trust in God, will do work if they are can. I don't believe any real Christian who does no work yet does not regret.
I don't think God need to see works or to hear any words to know whether the belief is real.
If a people has real faith at first, but he did no work and nor let the faith grow but leave the faith aside, will his faith gradually wither and eventually die?
Will such people be saved, who do bad things all the time, while still saying I will be saved regardless what I did for I am a Christian?
Can anyone first trust God then did everything against the teaching of Bible, completely lost faith until death and still be saved?
What I think is, first of all, belief out of mouth may not be out of heart. So we may hear some people say they trust in Jesus Christ but they are not in fact.
People, who really trust in God, will do work if they are can. I don't believe any real Christian who does no work yet does not regret.
I don't think God need to see works or to hear any words to know whether the belief is real.
If a people has real faith at first, but he did no work and nor let the faith grow but leave the faith aside, will his faith gradually wither and eventually die?
Will such people be saved, who do bad things all the time, while still saying I will be saved regardless what I did for I am a Christian?
Can anyone first trust God then did everything against the teaching of Bible, completely lost faith until death and still be saved?
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Works is a byproduct of saving faith.
If I say I believe in something but there is no action to determine this-then I don't believe in it.
Jesus said to be a fruit inspector-one either bears good fruit or bad fruit.
Being indifferent means this-
Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
If I say I believe in something but there is no action to determine this-then I don't believe in it.
Jesus said to be a fruit inspector-one either bears good fruit or bad fruit.
Being indifferent means this-
Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
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papaJP
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All do works. The works that flow from your faith and walk with God are fruits of your walk. Works are not judged by what they accomplish but by the place they come from. Either faith from the heart or just the worldly wanting to do something to look good.
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Both. Life expresses itself though living. New life in Christ will result in observable new behaviours. Remember Jesus' teaching on knowing a tree by its fruit?
John
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John
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Can anyone explain the seemingly contradiction between Romans 3:28, 4:1-25 and James 2:14-26? Are there different kinds of judgements on christians, and the work done by a christian is the measure for such judgement?
Then according to you this is not right?
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Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.NIV
At this stage Paul is dealing with the issue of Jewish law and its place in human righteousness. He is developing his argument that Jesus superceded the Mosaic law and that it is faith in God not law keeping that God accepts.
In 4:1-25 Paul then develops his argument by referring to Abraham, whom God declared righteous many centuries prior to the Mosaic law being given. Law keeping was not sufficient is Paul's line of reasoning.
James is just saying that there needs to be evidence of the life of Christ in a follower of Jesus. Paul said essentially the same thing in Galatians - there will be fruit of the Spirit living within a believer. James was not referring to the basis for becoming a Christian, but what we should expect from someone who is.
I hope this helps.
John
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I do not try to interpret another man's thoughts put down on paper.
That is beyond my horizon. So even if you were right about their thoughts. I would not know it. How do you know you are right?
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How do we know anything is right? On what basis do your form your own conclusions?
I form my views by studying a range of respected Christian scholars and publications, listen to talks, lectures, videos. I exchange views with other Christians and allow their perspectives to challenge, modify or affirm my own. Thus, it is an ongoing dialogue.
I suggest you get some sensible material on principles of biblical interpretation - hermeneutics - and get in place some reasonable principles for approaching the Scriptures.
John
NZ
I form my views by studying a range of respected Christian scholars and publications, listen to talks, lectures, videos. I exchange views with other Christians and allow their perspectives to challenge, modify or affirm my own. Thus, it is an ongoing dialogue.
I suggest you get some sensible material on principles of biblical interpretation - hermeneutics - and get in place some reasonable principles for approaching the Scriptures.
John
NZ
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I would say there is no contradiction and I agree with both. Please read on.
As many people already stated. Paul was saying the work that is required in the law should be a product of faith. Faith is good tree and good work is good fruit. If there is no good tree, the work will not be good fruit.
For the words of James, my understanding is James was saying that work and faith are not separable. Basicly, every tree bear fruits, just like every living people does something, even playing is something. Once there is faith, the tree is called good tree and the fruits will be called good fruits, even playing is good work. If the tree does not have fruits or have bad fruit, this is a sign that there is no faith.
The definition of work can be broad. Some work can be seen and some may not be seen. Only God see all the works. For example, even if we did not do anything to other people, we think of and trying to understand God's words, we are working on ourselves. This is called good works. God can see this. But people cannot see this and may say that this guy is not doing anything good. But if you think that making oneself trust in God is itself a great work, you will not say that.
Faith in God itself is a good work.
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I do not try to interpret another man's thoughts put down on paper.
That is beyond my horizon. So even if you were right about their thoughts. I would not know it. How do you know you are right?
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