Women's Roles in Sunday Service

desmalia

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What are your convictions regarding women's roles in Sunday services? I'm particularly thinking of things like leading the music and reading of Scripture. What does your church do? What Scriptures come to mind regarding this?
 
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LuxMundi

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What are your convictions regarding women's roles in Sunday services? I'm particularly thinking of things like leading the music and reading of Scripture. What does your church do? What Scriptures come to mind regarding this?

I support the ordination of women so from my perspective it is fine for women to lead the music and to publicly read Scripture, indeed it seems as if Paul's praxis was to allow women to preach (1 Cor. 11).
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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What are your convictions regarding women's roles in Sunday services? I'm particularly thinking of things like leading the music and reading of Scripture. What does your church do? What Scriptures come to mind regarding this?

Personally, I am comfortable with a woman filling most roles, with the primary exception being minister. 1 Cor 14:33-35 is one of the clearest proof texts.
 
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Personally, I am comfortable with a woman filling most roles, with the primary exception being minister. 1 Cor 14:33-35 is one of the clearest proof texts.

I am not a fan of proof texting for that approach is generally one whereby a text is taken out of its context. In the case of 1 Cor. 14:33-35 we have a number of issues: (1) it may be an interpolation, there is some MSS evidence to suggest this. (2) if it is not an interpolation what is Paul actually saying? Personally I am not convinced it's an interpolation (see Fee for the details) but the context Paul is dealing with is not women being ministers, indeed earlier on in 1 Cor. 11:5 that 'any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head' which implies that Paul had no problem with women leading worship or preaching provided that they were veiled owing to the cultural norms at that time. The issue in 1 Cor. 14:33-35 is women in the congregation talking amongst themselves and so disrupting the service, it has nothing to do with leadership role. There are various explanations, the following is what N. T. Wright says:

I have always been attracted, ever since I heard it, to the explanation offered once more by Ken Bailey. In the Middle East, he says, it was taken for granted that men and women would sit apart in church, as still happens today in some circles. Equally important, the service would be held (in Lebanon, say, or Syria, or Egypt), in formal or classical Arabic, which the men would all know but which many of the women would not, since the women would only speak a local dialect or patois. Again, we may disapprove of such an arrangement, but one of the things you learn in real pastoral work as opposed to ivory-tower academic theorizing is that you simply can’t take a community all the way from where it currently is to where you would ideally like it to be in a single flying leap. Anyway, the result would be that during the sermon in particular, the women, not understanding what was going on, would begin to get bored and talk among themselves. As Bailey describes the scene in such a church, the level of talking from the women’s side would steadily rise in volume, until the minister would have to say loudly, ‘Will the women please be quiet!’, whereupon the talking would die down, but only for a few minutes. Then, at some point, the minister would again have to ask the women to be quiet; and he would often add that if they wanted to know what was being said, they should ask their husbands to explain it to them when they got home. I know there are other explanations sometimes offered for this passage, some of them quite plausible; this is the one that has struck me for many years as having the strongest claim to provide a context for understanding what Paul is saying. After all, his central concern in 1 Corinthians 14 is for order and decency in the church’s worship. This would fit extremely well.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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the context Paul is dealing with is not women being ministers, indeed earlier on in 1 Cor. 11:5 that 'any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head' which implies that Paul had no problem with women leading worship or preaching provided that they were veiled owing to the cultural norms at that time.

I understand quite often in interpreting Scripture, what we read cannot be taken strictly at "face value", and in doing so often involves ignoring or overlooking context and in doing so, we miss the original intended meaning almost entirely. With that said, neither prayer nor prophecies should be equated with the role of minister. It is one thing to pray and utter prophecies and quite another to be a Church leader. I am aware of the cultural relativistic arguments, but they do not always apply, for if they did, one could argue nonsense such as the notion that Christ only died for the people of that time (not to mention thousands of other rubbish notions). I must admit there are instances which are relative to culture, and the Jews had almost completely different view of the role of women than we do in America in modern times, but at the same time, I must also confess that the older I grow, there are fewer instances where I buy into cultural relativism applied to Scripture. Also like to note that I am not a fan of discussing the length of one's hair, or whether one is qualified for this or that or gender issues, but obviously there is a place and need for them.
 
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hedrick

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As far as we can tell, 1 Cor. 14:33-35 is about women talking to their husbands during the service, not about having formal roles in worship. So it seems pretty odd for literalist churches to ban women from leading worship but not ban them from talking with their husband and friends in the pews, which was the thing Paul actually was talking about.

If we're going to be literal, let's be literal. Women shouldn't be allowed to speak in the sanctuary at all. Not to anyone for any purpose. I'll probably make an exception for dealing with medical emergencies, although I think even that may be unscriptural.
 
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desmalia

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OK, so this seems to be turning into a general debate about headship roles, not specifically what I was asking about. (Not that I'm complaining. Threads take on a life of their own in time and that's fine).

I probably should have been clearer in the OP that I'm particularly interested in feedback from those who do not believe women should be in authority/teaching roles over men.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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As far as we can tell, 1 Cor. 14:33-35 is about women talking to their husbands during the service, not about having formal roles in worship.

I think the overall message is that there should be order in Church. "Permitted" and "obedience" are two key words in those verses. Paul does make reference to the law though "as also saith the law" to support the "command" of "obedience".

I do believe in roles and order in Church, but at the same time, as in most instance in Scripture, we should not adhere to a "hyper-literal" interpretation.
 
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