Women Catholic Priests?

[dreadnought]

I believe that Paul and Peter disapproved of women priests, and a lot of people think that if they disapproved, then the Lord must have disapproved. Still, I am aware of no Bible verse that suggests the Lord (God or Jesus) disapproved. Last I knew, the Catholic Church had a shortage of priests. Maybe they ought to let women give it a shot.

 

[Annie Proclivite]

I believe that Paul and Peter disapproved of women priests, and a lot of people think that if they disapproved, then the Lord must have disapproved. Still, I am aware of no Bible verse that suggests the Lord (God or Jesus) disapproved. Last I knew, the Catholic Church had a shortage of priests. Maybe they ought to let women give it a shot.

We women have the same mental aptitude that men have. I don’t see why females can’t be priests. The prohibition on women clergy seems like an outdated superstition from a bygone era.

 

[HTacianas]

I believe that Paul and Peter disapproved of women priests, and a lot of people think that if they disapproved, then the Lord must have disapproved. Still, I am aware of no Bible verse that suggests the Lord (God or Jesus) disapproved. Last I knew, the Catholic Church had a shortage of priests. Maybe they ought to let women give it a shot.

I do not know why women cannot be priests except for perhaps the old testament prohibition agaist a menstrating woman or a woman who has just given birth being prohibited from participating in temple ceremonies.

I've pondered it sometimes and the only answer I can come up with is that since men are physically stronger than women perhaps they are spiritually stronger as well. But that is purely speculation on my part.

 

[dreadnought]

I do not know why women cannot be priests except for perhaps the old testament prohibition agaist a menstrating woman or a woman who has just given birth being prohibited from participating in temple ceremonies.

I've pondered it sometimes and the only answer I can come up with is that since men are physically stronger than women perhaps they are spiritually stronger as well. But that is purely speculation on my part.

I believe the people who are spiritually strongest are those who do the best job obeying the Lord's commandments. I suspect men and women do that about equally.

 

[Athanasius377]

Well, the bible does address the subject:

It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 aAn overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (1 Ti 3:1–7). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

or this

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.


New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (Tt 1:5–9). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Celibacy? That is a different issue.

 

[dreadnought]

Well, the bible does address the subject:

It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 aAn overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (1 Ti 3:1–7). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

or this

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.


New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (Tt 1:5–9). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Celibacy? That is a different issue.

Again, you are quoting Paul, aren't you?

 

[Athanasius377]

Again, you are quoting Paul, aren't you?

Most certainly. Paul was an Apostle and was writing under the inspiration of the God the Holy Spirit which is why his letters are included in the New Testament Canon. These letters are authoritative and address the issue at hand. Furthermore it excludes most men as well.

 

[dreadnought]

Most certainly. Paul was an Apostle and was writing under the inspiration of the God the Holy Spirit which is why his letters are included in the New Testament Canon. These letters are authoritative and address the issue at hand. Furthermore it excludes most men as well.

Like I said, Paul and Peter didn't think women should be priests, and a lot of people believe that if Peter and Paul believed that, so did the Lord.

 

[Basil the Great]

It remains a possibility, despite the fact that John Paul II claimed that the matter was closed. He did not issue an infallible decree, hence, it is still a possibility, even if a remote one. If the Church ever reaches a crisis mode with the number of priests, especially if married priests are allowed and that is not enough, then and only then would the issue of female priests be considered.

 

[bekkilyn]

Paul did not have issues with women in leadership roles as he served alongside many such women and even praised them. It is only when the church started to become more structured after his death, and heavily influenced by Hellenistic philosophy, that women were systematically excluded. People spend so much time looking at verses like the ones posted above and insisting that an overseer must be a married male with children that they miss Paul's entire message. Paul wasn't so much concerned with the gender of the overseer, but with the moral characteristics of the overseer, particularly the men who in that culture had a tendency to keep their wives shut up at home and then spend time with prostitutes and young men/boys on the side. What Paul is looking for in an overseer is a person who is either celibate such as himself, or is in a committed marriage relationship with one other person, and not sleeping around everywhere or having other questionable morals such as drunkenness or a quick temper.

Basically, if a person cannot manage a household, they are unlikely to be able to manage a church. when you start being hyper literal and reading in marriage and gender requirements when Paul's message was something else entirely, then you contribute to hundreds of years of oppression in the name of God.

If you interpret scripture in ways that harm other people, then the interpretation is not of God. Try looking through another lens that doesn't assume ahead of time that women are less than men and should have no voice or input, despite being half of creation and image-bearers of God along with men.

 

[zippy2006]

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

"...Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." -Pope John Paul II​

 

[dreadnought]

It remains a possibility, despite the fact that John Paul II claimed that the matter was closed. He did not issue an infallible decree, hence, it is still a possibility, even if a remote one. If the Church ever reaches a crisis mode with the number of priests, especially if married priests are allowed and that is not enough, then and only then would the issue of female priests be considered.

One of the neat things about the Catholic Church, I think, is that the priests are supposed to be celibate.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

We women have the same mental aptitude that men have. I don’t see why females can’t be priests. The prohibition on women clergy seems like an outdated superstition from a bygone era.

You're mixing intellectual assets up with ordained ministry which is two different things all together.
I have had and still do have great female theologians as teachers, there is a great distinction between being a theologian and being a priest.

(I don't care to discuss this topic as it's been discussed like a billion of times before on CF, but I felt like correcting the erroneous idea of the church looking at women as lesser individuals. That's just an absurd accusation on so many levels)

 

[zippy2006]

It remains a possibility, despite the fact that John Paul II claimed that the matter was closed. He did not issue an infallible decree, hence, it is still a possibility, even if a remote one. If the Church ever reaches a crisis mode with the number of priests, especially if married priests are allowed and that is not enough, then and only then would the issue of female priests be considered.

The teaching is infallible, and was confirmed rather than occasioned by John Paul II's Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. Jimmy Akin gives the relevant sources here.

 

[JackRT]

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

The issue of womens' role in the church is not as clear cut as some people would want to think. The letters of Paul, which date to the middle of the first century AD, provide some clues. For example, Paul greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15) as equals and co-workers. Junia is praised as a prominent apostle, imprisoned for her faith. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Women were the leaders of house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship, such as the deacon Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and women were certainly praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). An order of widows served formal roles of ministry (I Timothy 5:9-10). Women prophets included Mary Magdalene, the Corinthian women, Philip's daughters, Ammia of Philadelphia, Philumene, the visionary martyr Perpetua, Maximilla, Priscilla (Prisca), and Quintilla.

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

 

[Albion]

I believe that Paul and Peter disapproved of women priests, and a lot of people think that if they disapproved, then the Lord must have disapproved. Still, I am aware of no Bible verse that suggests the Lord (God or Jesus) disapproved. Last I knew, the Catholic Church had a shortage of priests. Maybe they ought to let women give it a shot.

It would be much easier--and present no doctrinal problem like women priests would--if the RCC simply changed its policy on unmarried priests and allowed married male clergy like the Eastern Orthodox do.

 

[Annie Proclivite]

You're mixing intellectual assets up with ordained ministry which is two different things all together.
I have had and still do have great female theologians as teachers, there is a great distinction between being a theologian and being a priest.

(I don't care to discuss this topic as it's been discussed like a billion of times before on CF, but I felt like correcting the erroneous idea of the church looking at women as lesser individuals. That's just an absurd accusation on so many levels)

Are you suggesting a superstitious attitude by implying women can’t be priests?

 

[zippy2006]

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils...

"Certainly, the understanding of the reasons for which the Church does not have the power to confer priestly ordination on women can be deepened further. Such reasons, for example, have been set out already in the Declaration Inter Insigniores (October 15, 1976), issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and approved by Pope Paul VI, and in a number of the documents of John Paul II (for example, Christifideles Laici, 51; Mulieris Dignitatem, 26), as well as in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1577). But in any case it cannot be forgotten that the Church teaches, as an absolutely fundamental truth of Christian anthropology, the equal personal dignity of men and women, and the necessity of overcoming and doing away with “every type of discrimination regarding fundamental rights” (Gaudium et Spes, 29). It is in the light of this truth that one can seek to understand better the teaching that women cannot receive priestly ordination. A correct theology can prescind neither from one nor from the other of these doctrines, but must hold the two together; only thus will it be able to deepen our comprehension of God’s plan regarding woman and regarding the priesthood — and hence, regarding the mission of woman in the Church. If however, perhaps by allowing oneself to be conditioned too much by the ways and spirit of the age, one should assert that a contradiction exists between these two truths, the way of progress in the intelligence of the faith would be lost." (Cardinal Ratzinger, 1995)​

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Are you suggesting a superstitious attitude by implying women can’t be priests?

By applying terminology like superstition about a different ecclesiastical tradition than your own makes me assume that any further interaction with you is a waste of time.

Openness and mutual respect is the foundation of any fruitful conversation just saying.

 

[Annie Proclivite]

By applying terminology like superstition about a different ecclesiastical tradition than your own makes me assume that any further interaction with you is a waste of time.

Openness and mutual respect is the foundation of any fruitful conversation just saying.

Women are special to God. Therefore, there isn’t any reason why we can’t preach his Holy Word.