Yes, I have seen this in the Methodist Church also. I've run into more than one "feminist" preacher at a Methodist Church who was down right rude and obnoxious. My sister does a lot of work in the Methodist Church and she recently told me that she "unfriended" her own husband on Facebook because he criticized Obama. She has always had a closed mouth about what she really believes about things. This was my first insight into her beliefs and it made me very sad. When I used to date women I almost always found Methodist ladies to be very liberal.The rare, conservative woman pastors I've heard are amazing as preachers, but it's perhaps not surprising that most woman preachers are of the kind you've described. After all, it's liberal denominations that chose to ordain them and they also naturally tend to identify with other groups that they feel are in the same situation of having to strive to be accepted.
None of us have suggested that women cannot be instrumental in leading people to Christ. We are supposed to. The great commission was not given to men exclusively.
Paul was, most certainly, the writer of the pastoral epistles.
The only people who disagree are liberal scholars who take issue with the alleged "misogyny" they think those three books contain.
But let's go out on a limb and say that maybe Paul didn't write them I fail to understand what difference that would make. Whoever wrote it was directly inspired by God. God is the author of those pastoral epistles. The writer simply recorded God's words.
Romans 16:1 "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.
I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.
The issiue I have with this is that the NT gives many more functions than just pastor and deacon. Also, the The pastoral epistles were not written as church manuals but to give advice on coping with some disruptive and wayward leaders and their followers within the house churches at Ephesus. The concepts of ordination and office developed historically but are not concepts generic to the NT church as we have them today.
The general principles of having well regarded and recognised oversight and various Spirit gifted functions is thoroughly biblical, but having that confined to some 'office' is quite contrary to the NT picture of life within the new community.
I have listened to, been influenced by (sometimes wrongly) and served under several pastors. I read widely amongst Christian sources and scholarship. Those I accept as most reliable and those less so is not due to their position within the Christian community, but because of what I regard as the validity and biblical integrity of their teaching. "Office' just is not a relevant concept for me.
Insofar as 'teaching' is listed amongst the foundational ministry gifts (not offices, but functioning people), a book is just as much a teaching medium as something spoken from a pulpit. Thus a woman author is teaching as much as any ordained pastor or elder. Look at function not title or office. That is the key issue, and then the latter two become somewhat redundant in their usefulness.
John
NZ
Yes, there are many functions within the body of believers that are meant to assist the church, reach the lost, and edify the Lord. A pastor is a very specific office of the church. Yes, a pastor preaches and anyone else can preach. In fact, we're all commanded to spread the Word, but a pastor is a very special position that comes with a lot more responsibility than simply preaching. So, if we're looking at function rather than title, the function of a pastor is substantially broader than simply preaching.
I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.
There's a huge difference between preaching and pastoring.
I believe we are ALL called to preach the good news.
In terms of pastoring, leading a church, shepherding, I believe that all pastors should be men, but that not all men should be pastors.
God called each of us (men/women) to uniquely different roles. Where I think the world loses it is that they assume that women can't be pastors because they are less than the men, which the bible does not teach at all. We see the way Jesus honored women throughout his own ministry - except for putting them in positions of leadership.
But no deacons, presbyters, or bishops. The picture is pretty clear and, what's more, continued that way for many centuries. Often in recent years, but before women were ordained, they served as missionaries, convenors of home churches, and (if you so believe) prophetesses.It is likely that women were amongst the 70 Jesus sent out, and it seems women travelled with Him as disciples. Later we see women having leading roles in the church, Junias an apostle, some leading home churches, and prophetesses.
But no deacons, presbyters, or bishops. The picture is pretty clear and, what's more, continued that way for many centuries. Often in recent years, but before women were ordained, they served as missionaries, convenors of home churches, and (if you so believe) prophetesses.
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