Women Can't Preach

Sri

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then you shouldn't even post this you should keep silent see how ridocoulsous that sounds. the word for silent means something in the greek. he told them to be silent not that they could not preach. the word says woa to us if we don't preach and live the gospel. hello phoebe was a girl and she was a deacon. A man's job. if you study teh bible and read it more other than what man's opinions are you will find lots of women in the bible with mans' roles and it was God's will as long as they were submited to the lord and did not overrule the righteous man. but hello you going to submit to every man's thoughts or God's because you can't please both.
 
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Sri

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if i am silent the rocks cry out and god's wrath is against me. i am to be silent when i am supposed to be. non distruptive when i am supposed to be. at peace with others as much as it is on me. but god came to bring a sword (word)so people would come to his kingdom and i am his ambassodor for i am a believer. for we are to confess and testify and we overcome by the blood of the lamb his word and the word of our testimony so woa to me if i do not regardless i am a person with a soul and my soul must submit to god and not hitler or any man that is not submitted to god
 
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Gentlemantech48

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The rare, conservative woman pastors I've heard are amazing as preachers, but it's perhaps not surprising that most woman preachers are of the kind you've described. After all, it's liberal denominations that chose to ordain them and they also naturally tend to identify with other groups that they feel are in the same situation of having to strive to be accepted.
Yes, I have seen this in the Methodist Church also. I've run into more than one "feminist" preacher at a Methodist Church who was down right rude and obnoxious. My sister does a lot of work in the Methodist Church and she recently told me that she "unfriended" her own husband on Facebook because he criticized Obama. She has always had a closed mouth about what she really believes about things. This was my first insight into her beliefs and it made me very sad. When I used to date women I almost always found Methodist ladies to be very liberal.
 
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HenryMaxwell

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None of us have suggested that women cannot be instrumental in leading people to Christ. We are supposed to. The great commission was not given to men exclusively.

KatAutumn, that was a good point up there and I personally know some good Christian women that have a love for lost souls and they do all they can to lead people to the Lord. Some of the women in my family are like that, and many women in my church are like that to, and God bless them all.

Henry
 
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HenryMaxwell

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Paul was, most certainly, the writer of the pastoral epistles.

Exactly right!! Amen to that!

The only people who disagree are liberal scholars who take issue with the alleged "misogyny" they think those three books contain.

Exactly right again!! And there is no misogyny anywhere in Paul's epistles or anywhere in the New Testament.

But let's go out on a limb and say that maybe Paul didn't write them I fail to understand what difference that would make. Whoever wrote it was directly inspired by God. God is the author of those pastoral epistles. The writer simply recorded God's words.

Right one more time! 2 Tim 3:16-17 settles this strong and solid ..."All Scripture is give by inspiration of God..." etc.

Henry
 
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katautumn

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I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.
 
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katautumn

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Romans 16:1 "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.

Many scholars agree that the word "deacon" in that verse translates to "servant", which was a common role of women in the early church. It was typically considered a woman's obligation to help the sick, the poor, and the widows of the church. Phoebe also held a special position of importance, as evidenced by the fact that Paul entrusted her with delivering the epistle to the church in Rome. With that said, most scholars don't believe Phoebe was an official deacon (or deaconess), rather a helper.
 
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Johnnz

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I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.

The issiue I have with this is that the NT gives many more functions than just pastor and deacon. Also, the The pastoral epistles were not written as church manuals but to give advice on coping with some disruptive and wayward leaders and their followers within the house churches at Ephesus. The concepts of ordination and office developed historically but are not concepts generic to the NT church as we have them today.

The general principles of having well regarded and recognised oversight and various Spirit gifted functions is thoroughly biblical, but having that confined to some 'office' is quite contrary to the NT picture of life within the new community.

I have listened to, been influenced by (sometimes wrongly) and served under several pastors. I read widely amongst Christian sources and scholarship. Those I accept as most reliable and those less so is not due to their position within the Christian community, but because of what I regard as the validity and biblical integrity of their teaching. "Office' just is not a relevant concept for me.

Insofar as 'teaching' is listed amongst the foundational ministry gifts (not offices, but functioning people), a book is just as much a teaching medium as something spoken from a pulpit. Thus a woman author is teaching as much as any ordained pastor or elder. Look at function not title or office. That is the key issue, and then the latter two become somewhat redundant in their usefulness.

John
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katautumn

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The issiue I have with this is that the NT gives many more functions than just pastor and deacon. Also, the The pastoral epistles were not written as church manuals but to give advice on coping with some disruptive and wayward leaders and their followers within the house churches at Ephesus. The concepts of ordination and office developed historically but are not concepts generic to the NT church as we have them today.

The general principles of having well regarded and recognised oversight and various Spirit gifted functions is thoroughly biblical, but having that confined to some 'office' is quite contrary to the NT picture of life within the new community.

I have listened to, been influenced by (sometimes wrongly) and served under several pastors. I read widely amongst Christian sources and scholarship. Those I accept as most reliable and those less so is not due to their position within the Christian community, but because of what I regard as the validity and biblical integrity of their teaching. "Office' just is not a relevant concept for me.

Insofar as 'teaching' is listed amongst the foundational ministry gifts (not offices, but functioning people), a book is just as much a teaching medium as something spoken from a pulpit. Thus a woman author is teaching as much as any ordained pastor or elder. Look at function not title or office. That is the key issue, and then the latter two become somewhat redundant in their usefulness.

John
NZ

Yes, there are many functions within the body of believers that are meant to assist the church, reach the lost, and edify the Lord. A pastor is a very specific office of the church. Yes, a pastor preaches and anyone else can preach. In fact, we're all commanded to spread the Word, but a pastor is a very special position that comes with a lot more responsibility than simply preaching. So, if we're looking at function rather than title, the function of a pastor is substantially broader than simply preaching. :)
 
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Johnnz

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Yes, there are many functions within the body of believers that are meant to assist the church, reach the lost, and edify the Lord. A pastor is a very specific office of the church. Yes, a pastor preaches and anyone else can preach. In fact, we're all commanded to spread the Word, but a pastor is a very special position that comes with a lot more responsibility than simply preaching. So, if we're looking at function rather than title, the function of a pastor is substantially broader than simply preaching. :)

Two quick comments

a) Nowhere in the NT do we see the job description of the modern pastor or clergyman. Any seniority was plural. The NT letters were addressed to entire churches,not just their leaders, as would be done today when there was some significant problem within a congregation.

b) Preaching by the 'professional' It's history is not biblically based in its current form.as such. The modern sermon was borrowed from the Greek sophists, who were masters at oratory and rhetoric. John Chrysostom (347-407) and Augustine (354-430) popularized the Greco-Roman homily (sermon) and made it a central part of the Christian faith. The One-Hour Sermon, Sermon Crib Notes, and the Four-Part Sermon Outline arrived in the 17th century with the Puritans.



John
NZ
 
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Albion

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I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.

That's about it. :thumbsup:
 
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Johnnz

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Originally Posted by KatAutumn

I think we've pretty much reached the consensus that women can preach (as the word "prophesy" in many parts of the New Testament actually means "testify" or "preach the gospel"). The issue is that nowhere does the Bible condone the ordination of women into the only two offices of the church the Bible addresses - pastor and deacon.

The two words in the NT are quite different. Both the OT and NT clearly distinguish a truly prophetic word as distinct from preaching.

John
NZ

 
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SeekerOfChrist94

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Many women who speak are preaching that we must accept society's values, such as abortion, divorce, ordaining homosexuals, etc. Maybe that's what the women in Corinth were doing and that's why Paul tried to warn them? There are good female preachers, yes, but many I have experienced are ones that are preaching more about societal values than scripture.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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There's a huge difference between preaching and pastoring.

I believe we are ALL called to preach the good news.

In terms of pastoring, leading a church, shepherding, I believe that all pastors should be men, but that not all men should be pastors.

God called each of us (men/women) to uniquely different roles. Where I think the world loses it is that they assume that women can't be pastors because they are less than the men, which the bible does not teach at all. We see the way Jesus honored women throughout his own ministry - except for putting them in positions of leadership.
 
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Johnnz

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There's a huge difference between preaching and pastoring.

I believe we are ALL called to preach the good news.

In terms of pastoring, leading a church, shepherding, I believe that all pastors should be men, but that not all men should be pastors.

God called each of us (men/women) to uniquely different roles. Where I think the world loses it is that they assume that women can't be pastors because they are less than the men, which the bible does not teach at all. We see the way Jesus honored women throughout his own ministry - except for putting them in positions of leadership.

It is likely that women were amongst the 70 Jesus sent out, and it seems women travelled with Him as disciples. Later we see women having leading roles in the church, Junias an apostle, some leading home churches, and prophetesses.

John
NZ
 
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Albion

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It is likely that women were amongst the 70 Jesus sent out, and it seems women travelled with Him as disciples. Later we see women having leading roles in the church, Junias an apostle, some leading home churches, and prophetesses.
But no deacons, presbyters, or bishops. The picture is pretty clear and, what's more, continued that way for many centuries. Often in recent years, but before women were ordained, they served as missionaries, convenors of home churches, and (if you so believe) prophetesses.
 
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Johnnz

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But no deacons, presbyters, or bishops. The picture is pretty clear and, what's more, continued that way for many centuries. Often in recent years, but before women were ordained, they served as missionaries, convenors of home churches, and (if you so believe) prophetesses.

Phoebe was a deacon. Junias as an apostle was a significant woman. And it is likely that some of the women Paul mentions were responsible for the house churches that met in their homes.

John
NZ
 
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