Women becoming pastors?

[SkyWriting]

Seems as if they don't believe that a certain part of the NT is inspired.
I spoke to a religious female cousin who said that what Paul wrote is nonsense.
Doesn't bother her one bit to say that while quoting other scriptures of the NT, including those written by Paul, with deep, reverent awe.

Well, he's not all wrong. Just how he treated "others."

 

[SkyWriting]

Women remain silent in the Church

Gender rules are not allowed.
Let's assume for argument that Bruce Jenner is born again.
Would the rule apply...or not?
Is there a hairy chest rule?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Gender rules are not allowed.

In which churches?

In my church, our pastor is male as are the deacons and elders.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Gender rules are not allowed.

Thanks for misquote .. unsubscribe

 

[ToBeLoved]

Gender rules are not allowed.
Let's assume for argument that Bruce Jenner is born again.
Would the rule apply...or not?

Now that is not an assumption we should be making, IMHO.

 

[SkyWriting]

Now that is not an assumption we should be making, IMHO.

That's my point. Making gender assumptions is not
a good place to start when staffing the church.

Chastity Bono

 

[ToBeLoved]

That's my point. Making gender assumptions is not
a good place to start when staffing the church.

Chastity Bono

Is gender an assumption most of the time? I think it is pretty easy to tell a male from a female myself.

Now, God says that men should be the authority in the church, not I. So this may be a God issue you have here, I'm not sure. Prayer may be helpful for you.

 

[Strong in Him]

Now, God says that men should be the authority in the church, not I. So this may be a God issue you have here, I'm not sure. Prayer may be helpful for you.

What do you mean by "be the authority?
Teaching? Priscilla taught Apollos, and women were permitted to prophesy. To pass on a word from God, involves teaching - revealing his word and his will. Mary Magdalene told the disciples that Jesus was alive and passed on a message from him.
Leadership? Deborah led the whole nation of Israel, and was a prophetess too. Phoebe was a deacon and others were deaconesses in the church.
Preaching? I don't think women are exempt from the Great Commission, which involves preaching, teaching and making disciples. Paul had female co workers who worked tirelessly for the Gospel - we don't know that none of them ever preached/gave a testimony.
In addition, Paul listed gifts that the Holy Spirit gives - including teaching and that of Pastor. Nowhere does he say that these gifts are gender specific.

Authority comes from God. It is his church, his work, his kingdom and his glory. He has made us, saved us, called us and equipped us for service - whatever that service might be. He is perfectly able to a) call whom he pleases and b) remove anyone who is lying about their call, only doing it for their own gain and not honouring him.
The church does not give authority; God does. And he seems to be ok with giving it to women.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What do you mean by "be the authority?
Teaching? Priscilla taught Apollos, and women were permitted to prophesy. To pass on a word from God, involves teaching - revealing his word and his will. Mary Magdalene told the disciples that Jesus was alive and passed on a message from him.
Leadership? Deborah led the whole nation of Israel, and was a prophetess too. Phoebe was a deacon and others were deaconesses in the church.
Preaching? I don't think women are exempt from the Great Commission, which involves preaching, teaching and making disciples. Paul had female co workers who worked tirelessly for the Gospel - we don't know that none of them ever preached/gave a testimony.
In addition, Paul listed gifts that the Holy Spirit gives - including teaching and that of Pastor. Nowhere does he say that these gifts are gender specific.

Authority comes from God. It is his church, his work, his kingdom and his glory. He has made us, saved us, called us and equipped us for service - whatever that service might be. He is perfectly able to a) call whom he pleases and b) remove anyone who is lying about their call, only doing it for their own gain and not honouring him.
The church does not give authority; God does. And he seems to be ok with giving it to women.

I listed this earlier in post #423.

In my church, our pastor is male as are the deacons and elders. So it would be those offices.

 

[Strong in Him]

I listed this earlier in post #423.

In my church, our pastor is male as are the deacons and elders. So it would be those offices.

In my denomination, women are able to be deacons, stewards, lay preachers or ordained Ministers.

 

[ToBeLoved]

In my denomination, women are able to be deacons, stewards, lay preachers or ordained Ministers.

Your choice, but I disagree.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Lot's of rhetoric outside of Scripture, being used to establish a novel standard in this thread, and in many Churches these days, it would seem.

 

[timothygrae]

People's issue seems to be purely the title of the woman. Every time a Biblical example has been put forward, it's been reponded to with statements resembling, 'yeah, but, they weren't a pastor,' and the fact that they were doing everything that a pastor does, such as teach, inspire, lead Godly lives, evangelise, lead, etc. is irrelevant because they weren't referred to as a pastor.

First of all, I very much doubt that the church structure of Biblical times is at all similar to modern structure, given the millenia that separates us, the formation of denominations etc. Second of all, it is highly likely that there WERE women pastors, Paul continually commending women in his letters, such as in Phillipians 4. Romans 16:1 speaks of a 'servant' of God named Phoebe, a woman, and this word 'servant' is actually the same word used for 'minister' to describe Paul himself in the original Greek translation. And finally, is not the church the body of believers? I see it time and time again where people keep referring to 'the church,' thinking of the building/physical institution. No, 1 Corinthians 12 CLEARLY says otherwise, whereby the church is the body of christ, the body of christ made up by the believers. Paul says that each has a different role within the body, and so who's to say that a woman doesn't have the role of teaching and advacing the gospel? Indeed, the first preaching of the gospel is undertaken by Mary under commission from the angel at the tomb.

Also, to say that, "the Bible is outdated," is fundamentally wrong; Christ came to create a new and eternal covenant, so as long as we are loving the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, and loving our neighbour as ourself, we are living according to this doctrine. Doctrine can be misinterpreted, but not outdated. To suggest as such would be to suggest that it is not the word of God, as God is unchanging.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

The liturgy of the Orthodox churches and the canon law precludes the ordination of women to the priesthood and episcopate but would allow all other ministries, in practice however there are few Orthodox churches with deaconnesses.

 

[Zoii]

In which churches?

In my church, our pastor is male as are the deacons and elders.

yes but thats old thinking. Weve moved on - and theres lots of female pastors thank goodness. Biblical thinking will just have to catch up

 

[timothygrae]

yes but thats old thinking. Weve moved on - and theres lots of female pastors thank goodness. Biblical thinking will just have to catch up

There is a distinct difference between misinterpreting the Bible and actually saying that the Bible is outdated. The Bible is the Word of God; an unchanging God. The only change that occurs in terms of what God asks His people to do is seen in the creation of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, nullifying much of Old Testament law. But Paul's mission was to guide the early church in this New Covenant, so his words are not outdated, as he was divinely inspired and called directly by God on the road to Damascus.
I do agree, however, that it is a good thing that there are women as pastors. When reading Paul's letters, one must consider the cultural limitations placed on women and the church, hence why he advised women to stay silent in the Corinthian church, most probably to do with a lack of education leading to an inability to immediately grasp what is being taught in church. Paul, however, encourages women to learn at home and privately in the verse immediately succeeding this, which shows his words are not out of a sexist assumption which is that women are incapable of learning, and again merely only points to this unfortunate disadvantage women were under at this time. But when reading other parts of the Bible, we see several women are active members and teachers in the church, such as Priscilla and Phoebe, and also in several Old Testament examples, people who Paul encourages and commends for their service to the Lord.
So Biblical thinking is not outdated, it's just that specific passages can be taken out of context, and it not be recognised that certain examples of Biblical advice are given to specific situations. For example, when Paul encourages Philemon to return to his master, I seriously doubt that he is saying that all slaves return to their master; it's to do with situation and heart of the individual.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Some of the new testament is not supposed to be read literally. Apart form the gospels the rest of it just a collection of letters written to various churches of the time. Then we have Revelation which is just a prophecy book.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Strong in Him]

Your choice, but I disagree.

Well it's my choice to go to the church, but it was not my choice that they would ordain women. That was taken by clergy, bishops, ministers at their Synod, Conference or whatever they call it. And I know that in the Anglican church, (which I used to belong to) it took years of debate, prayer and discussion to come to that point. In the CofE synod there are 3 "houses"; bishops, clergy and laity - and any motion has to have 2/3 majority in each before it can be passed.
I know some would still say that this doesn't make it right; I'm just trying to show that, in the CofE at least, the decision was never a quick or easy one, taken on a whim or without a good deal of prayer and discussion.

If you want to talk about human authority, it is mostly men who are involved in these decisions and discussions, mostly men who are involved in the training and ordination process and most of the time a female curate, or probationer minister, will have a male vicar, bishop or Superintendent over her. God gives authority, men recognise it, and allow, and equip, women to carry out their calling.
This being the case, how can a woman who teaches/leads a congregation be snatching authority away from men?

 

[SkyWriting]

Is gender an assumption most of the time? I think it is pretty easy to tell a male from a female myself.
Now, God says that men should be the authority in the church, not I. So this may be a God issue you have here, I'm not sure. Prayer may be helpful for you.

That was Paul. And he spoke in error of the "Do unto Others, as you would have them do unto you" rule. People dispute that the rules exists, but no one has said he didn't break it.

 

[SkyWriting]

In which churches?
In my church, our pastor is male as are the deacons and elders.

Scripture does not allow for it. Paul mis-taught.