Woman dies after abortion refusal

[durangodawood]

A reasonable person would not consider bugs and humans are moral equivalents.

Of course not. So why is consciousness a good test?
.

 

[jpcedotal]

So why bother doing anything for the betterment of mankind?

I mean suppose you got a nasty chest infection that led to pneumonia, why bother with medicine at all, you have faith God will do exactly the right thing even if it means you dying?

I'd bet you would only have faith in God that he will do the right thing when it is others lives at stake, not when your own skin is at risk.

That doesn't apply. God helps those who help themselves...that does not include killing babies. I am not talking about medicines, I am talking about murder.

 

[jpcedotal]

Good for you. That's noble, in its own way. Aren't you glad you get to make that choice? Imagine if you were forced to side with the mother no matter what! If there were some law in place that said that no matter what you want, or even what the mother wants, doctors were forced to side with the mother at the expense of the baby. If the mother's life is in danger, automatic abortion, regardless of what you have to say. Wouldn't that kinda suck?

You say you'd always side with the child. Some would always side with the mother. Some would side with either, depending on the specific situation. Shouldn't that be their choice?

Not if the choice includes killing the child.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am not an animal. I have nothing in common with an animal other than physical life. I have a consciousness and a soul that can live eternally if I believe Jesus the man was God come to earth as love personified and died on a Cross and was raised after 3 days.

 

[rambot]

That doesn't apply. God helps those who help themselves...that does not include killing babies.

Please show me the Bible verse on which that is based on. Cause to me, that kind of COMPLETELY undercuts the idea of God's grace. Not only that but frequently God helps those DESPITE themselves.

I only ask because the phrase (or a derivation) seems to have a thick history in Greek fables.

 

[Trogool]

I am not an animal. I have nothing in common with an animal other than physical life. I have a consciousness and a soul that can live eternally if I believe Jesus the man was God come to earth as love personified and died on a Cross and was raised after 3 days.

Oh. So are you a plant or fungi then? Maybe a bacteria? I'm not sure you understand what the word means.

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[jpcedotal]

Oh. So are you a plant or fungi then? Maybe a bacteria? I'm not sure you understand what the word means.

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I simply do not agree the classification of human beings as animals. We are a higher life form than animals.

In fact, "life" as the Bible defines it, does not include plants. Growing and reproducing is not God's definition of life....now He does include animals as "alive"...but again they do not have the breath of God in them as man does.

 

[DaisyDay]

Helen Keller gave a very interesting insight into what it is like to never have audio or visual input and its effects on consciousness.

It's not quite true that she never had audio or visual input - she lost them from illness at age of two, after she had begun to walk and babble. After that, though, her deprivation was severe.

 

[ThomasPaine1776]

That seems shocking to me. Any citations for that?

Google "doctor advocate post birth abortion"

 

[DaisyDay]

If life requires self awareness at a certain development level. One could suggest the mentally and elderly be euthanized.

I know more than a few elderly people who consider that to be the humane thing to do; of course, there are others that don't. If I were to become irredeemably disabled to the point where I lost all self-awareness, I hope that I would be euthanized as well.

 

[DaisyDay]

Google "doctor advocate post birth abortion"

The first page is all right-wing sites.

 

[pennyfromheaven]

This story made me so sad. Since the baby was not to survive, the mother should have been saved. I really wonder why the doctors thought she was not in danger. Anyhow, my thoughts and prayers have been with the husband - he is in a lot of pain, what a sad and difficult turn of events to lose 2 people.

 

[rambot]

Google "doctor advocate post birth abortion"

I count 3 doctors who are "advocating" for this.

I cannot comprehend why it is called abortion. EVERY definition I have EVER read for "abortion" mentions pregnancy and almost all refer to a "fetus". If you can find ANY definition for abortion that is considered standard by any one professional medical body that does NOT make reference to "fetus" or "pregnancy", I will accept your point.

While those doctors may not like calling it "infanticide", that is a more appropriate definition for what is happenning. When a baby leaves his/her mother, he/she is no longer a "fetus" and the mother is no longer "pregnant".

 

[rambot]

I simply do not agree the classification of human beings as animals. We are a higher life form than animals.

In fact, "life" as the Bible defines it, does not include plants. Growing and reproducing is not God's definition of life....now He does include animals as "alive"...but again they do not have the breath of God in them as man does.

What is God's definition for nuclear fission or computer?

Might I posit that the Bible is not a dictionary and was, at no point, designed to be one.

 

[Skaloop]

Not if the choice includes killing the child.

But it's OK if the choice includes killing the mother?

 

[ThomasPaine1776]

I count 3 doctors who are "advocating" for this.

I cannot comprehend why it is called abortion. EVERY definition I have EVER read for "abortion" mentions pregnancy and almost all refer to a "fetus". If you can find ANY definition for abortion that is considered standard by any one professional medical body that does NOT make reference to "fetus" or "pregnancy", I will accept your point.

While those doctors may not like calling it "infanticide", that is a more appropriate definition for what is happenning. When a baby leaves his/her mother, he/she is no longer a "fetus" and the mother is no longer "pregnant".

Agreed. My point is that there are many views on when life starts and when civil liberties and human rights begin. I give the benefit of doubt to that which life is being ascribed too.

 

[TheDag]

The first page is all right-wing sites.

So what? The only consideration should be are they correct in this case. even right wingers can be correct sometimes just like left wingers are correct sometimes.

 

[Trogool]

The first page is all right-wing sites.

$10 says it's a reference to that medical ethics paper on infant euthanasia that every made every pro-life organization on the planet explode in a frenzy of deceptive presentation.

Long story short: It was an argument made in a medical ethics journal basically for the sake of argument. Some people cannot or choose not to grasp the point that scientific journals are open platforms for the presentation of ideas and pretended that we were on the verge of a worldwide return to the Roman practice of exposing unwanted babies or some fantasy like that.

 

[Genersis]

$10 says it's a reference to that medical ethics paper on infant euthanasia that every made every pro-life organization on the planet explode in a frenzy of deceptive presentation.

Long story short: It was an argument made in a medical ethics journal basically for the sake of argument. Some people cannot or choose not to grasp the point that scientific journals are open platforms for the presentation of ideas and pretended that we were on the verge of a worldwide return to the Roman practice of exposing unwanted babies or some fantasy like that.

I'm pretty sure that's what he means also.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

It sound more like she died because, she didn't get blood test or have good care. Why would she ask to if she could be induced, if she want sure what was completely wrong. Most woman would want save their baby, if theres a possibility.

The baby's heartbeat stopped on the Wednesday.

So the baby might have died because the mother had infection, that turned septicaemia or the baby started had an infection. She was also in the hospital 4 days before the baby died. Probably from septicaemia, like her mother.Then 4 days after that the mother died. If blood test were done, maybe both would be alive. This sound like much more to me.