Wokeness the Death of Science in the Western World

[Larniavc]

The fact is compassion is experienced only where there is suffering.

Please show how compassion needs suffering to exist?

 

[childeye 2]

Please show how compassion needs suffering to exist?

I didn't mean to imply that compassion needs suffering to exist. The context is more like I wouldn't appreciate a flashlight in the noon day sun. Or food is appreciated more by a starving person than one with a full belly. I therefore said compassion is "experienced" only where there is suffering.

compassion​

noun​

com·pas·sion kəm-ˈpa-shən

Synonyms of compassion
: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it

 

[childeye 2]

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Rom 1, NIV)

Thank you for these appropriate scriptures. Some people do not think it applies to everyone, but I think Paul makes it clear that it does in Romans 2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

 

[IceJad]

Have you thought of leaving? Maybe western society is not for you?

If you would look at my profile you can see I'm nowhere near any western country. At least in my country we still know for a certain what a female is and is not. We still understand that biology plays a role in gender. We might not be the highest ranking in terms of science but many of our brightest have contributed to technology and scientific discoveries.

Maybe in the 90s the west has its appeal to live in. Logical, liberal and free. But after the so called "progressive movement" I rather not. Everything I view as good has severely eroded and continues to erode.

 

[IceJad]

As the answer to the question seems ‘none’ your opinion isn’t important.

Neither is anyone's opinion here if you like to play this game. This is an online religious forum. You can write the best thesis on how to create a perfect society it will be worth nothing. The purpose of a forum is to allow people to share views and ideas.

If you're the kind of person who only consider a person's opinion or view valid by the way of accreditation then you shouldn't be commenting on anything in the world besides your field of expertise. I for myself don't take people's education level as a limiter. If a hobo says something enlightening, the good point is merit in and of itself. Doesn't matter he doesn't have a home or an education or a stable income.

People who keep asking for accreditations only do so because they want to invalid the person not the merit of his opinion or view.

 

[LesSme]

Thank you for these appropriate scriptures. Some people do not think it applies to everyone, but I think Paul makes it clear that it does in Romans 2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Sure, @childeye 2, and I agree. Because everyone can see God at work in the world and know his ways and what he requires, the consensus according to scripture is that He can fairly judge those who haven’t heard the gospel.

 

[IceJad]

Hey OP. Do you mind my asking if you are a Western ex-pat? As you seem to have a vested interest in these issues. Don’t get me wrong, I feel strongly about them myself. But I believe a lot of the non-Western world e.g. Malaysia where you are just laugh at a lot of our nonsense. Iow I believe they are wise enough to discern and reject the absurdities being pushed.

To paraphrase the Jewish saying, man makes his plans and God laughs. Probably more healthy for us in the long run to follow his example when it comes to these matters. After all no one save his son is going to change the world in the end. Not the righteous, and definitely not the “woke,” whichever hemisphere they may reside in.

I'm a Malaysian ethnic Chinese. Born and grew up in Malaysia. I don't have vested interest as per say but rather a feeling of anger. I don't want this insanity to creep into my part of the world. I live in a semi-free nation. I like to make my country transition into a free and liberal nation like the west in the early 90s. But it is not an easy job as a lot of the more conservative elements of my country are very resistant to it.

The woke west is like the golden bullet they have to keep people like me from liberalizing the nation. All they need to do is to point out that in 20 years after going liberal we will end up like the insanity of the woke west. It is so easy to frighten the moderates. Moderates in my country are also quite religious. Here we don't hate religion like the west. We balance the teachings and secular live.

And the conservatives here have a point. Even I don't want my nation to turn into the woke west. Full of absurdity like ideological science, language policing and social engineering.

The danger here is that a lot of people are starting to warm up to authoritarian nations like Russia and China. People are more impressed by the achievements of China/Russia than the West in collective. It wouldn't be too long that they will accept even the model of government. With the west in societal chaos and the growth of authoritarian nations, it will pose an existential threat of our democratic way of live.

 

[childeye 2]

Sure, @childeye 2, and I agree. Because everyone can see God at work in the world and know his ways and what he requires, the consensus according to scripture is that He can fairly judge those who haven’t heard the gospel.

God will judge fairly and to think it's up to us is not trusting that He's got this.

 

[childeye 2]

I'm a Malaysian ethnic Chinese. Born and grew up in Malaysia. I don't have vested interest as per say but rather a feeling of anger. I don't want this insanity to creep into my part of the world. I live in a semi-free nation. I like to make my country transition into a free and liberal nation like the west in the early 90s. But it is not an easy job as a lot of the more conservative elements of my country are very resistant to it.

The woke west is like the golden bullet they have to keep people like me from liberalizing the nation. All they need to do is to point out that in 20 years after going liberal we will end up like the insanity of the woke west. It is so easy to frighten the moderates. Moderates in my country are also quite religious. Here we don't hate religion like the west. We balance the teachings and secular live.

And the conservatives here have a point. Even I don't want my nation to turn into the woke west. Full of absurdity like ideological science, language policing and social engineering.

The danger here is that a lot of people are starting to warm up to authoritarian nations like Russia and China. People are more impressed by the achievements of China/Russia than the West in collective. It wouldn't be too long that they will accept even the model of government. With the west in societal chaos and the growth of authoritarian nations, it will pose an existential threat of our democratic way of live.

Thanks for this post. I think it's confirmed that you're hearing propaganda. I believe your anger comes because you want goodness to succeed. Don't believe the propaganda. We all know what male/female means here. It's just that geopolitically there is currently a battle of words between Democracy/Autocracy and the lies are everywhere beginning with the rise of the global internet and social media in the mid 90's and it has caused some division. I see it as a Spiritual war that must happen, but ultimately God is in control. People here are still learning how to separate the lies from the Truth, but God willing we will humble ourselves and get a handle on it.

We have freedom of speech and a free press guaranteed in our constitution, which we cherish dearly. Many entities have popped up to exploit that freedom and spread lies for money. One of the main sources of Authoritarian Autocratic propaganda has already been exposed over here, and is in big trouble in our courts.

Blessings to you and your loved ones and your country.

 

[LesSme]

@IceJad thank you for your reply to me above. I’ve never been to Malaysia but spent a few weeks with some natives during a Christmas stay at a Lutheran hostel in London. Lovely people, always smiling and laughing and wanting to feed you to the gills. Of course China is an amazing country too but I’d rather visit when it wasn’t under Communist rule.

 

[Larniavc]

I didn't mean to imply that compassion needs suffering to exist. The context is more like I wouldn't appreciate a flashlight in the noon day sun. Or food is appreciated more by a starving person than one with a full belly. I therefore said compassion is "experienced" only where there is suffering.

compassion​

noun​

com·pas·sion kəm-ˈpa-shən

Synonyms of compassion
: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it

You wouldn’t appreciate it because you would not need it. That definition of compassion is unnecessary if there is no suffering.

 

[Larniavc]

Neither is anyone's opinion here if you like to play this game.

Not true. If one has education and training in a scientific discipline one’s opinion has a greater weight than one who does not have that background.

True ethics and morality are subjective but the world is as the world is and in the words of the early 21st century poet-philosopher Martin Gore: “don’t just stand there and shout it, do something about it”.

Vote.

 

[Larniavc]

People who keep asking for accreditations only do so because they want to invalid the person not the merit of his opinion or view.

Not so. It is the opinion or view that is challenged, not the person. That verges towards the ad hom.

 

[childeye 2]

You wouldn’t appreciate it because you would not need it. That definition of compassion is unnecessary if there is no suffering.

I was once young and in my prime, and now I am old and on the decline. How true it is that we don't know what we've got till it's gone.

I'm not sure what you mean by "That definition of compassion". If you're saying that compassion is just one form that love takes, I would agree with that. If you're saying there would be no need for compassion if there were no suffering, I would agree also. I just don't want to imply that suffering creates compassion, but rather it is a form that an altruistic Love would take when it encounters suffering.

I know that if I take Love/compassion for granted, I don't assess the value of it. I mean most people are not asking, "Why is there good happening?" Instead, we all tend to ask, "Why is evil happening?" For me it brings to mind the telling of how God didn't want mankind to eat from the knowledge of good and evil. As in, He didn't want us to know suffering and death. So, I often think about how I wouldn't even care about the suffering of others without compassion, and I imagine a world without it only because I believe the lesson is not futile in the hope of an Eternal Life. Wherefore I trust in the altruistic Love come down from Heaven displayed by the Christ, that suffered our grievances and death on a cross, so that there could be a resurrection.

 

[gaara4158]

I find it delightfully ironic that a thread bemoaning an alleged deterioration of objectivity, rationality, and empiricism in the sciences practiced in “the West” uses absolutely no objective, rational, empirical evidence to support its claims. Instead all we’re getting is half-baked analogies, loaded language, and a bunch of Bible verses in support of a thesis from people who purport to value rigorous observation and analysis. Says everything I need to know, honestly.

 

[childeye 2]

I find it delightfully ironic that a thread bemoaning an alleged deterioration of objectivity, rationality, and empiricism in the sciences practiced in “the West” uses absolutely no objective, rational, empirical evidence to support its claims. Instead all we’re getting is half-baked analogies, loaded language, and a bunch of Bible verses in support of a thesis from people who purport to value rigorous observation and analysis. Says everything I need to know, honestly.

I see nothing wrong with showing concern about propaganda influencing a society.

 

[Larniavc]

For me it brings to mind the telling of how God didn't want mankind to eat from the knowledge of good and evil.

Then why did he create it in an easily eatable form, within easy reach and then let one of his creations suggest that it be eaten?

 

[childeye 2]

Then why did he create it in an easily eatable form, within easy reach and then let one of his creations suggest that it be eaten?

To me it indicates that everything Holy/Eternal is built on a trustworthy image of God, and therefore God warned Adam but did not fence it off.

The serpent is a separate matter, or rather a player, in the events that unfold. While the man presents as having a knowledge of the Divine nature without the knowledge of good/evil, and entirely trusting in God; the serpent seems to present as having the knowledge of good/evil without a knowledge of God's Divine Nature and trusting in itself.

Anyway, I believe we know the scriptures show that the serpent was the Guardian Cherub Satan. The dialogue between the serpent and the woman conveys that in his higher station over mankind, Satan saw mankind content in their lower station, and he desired to be recognized as higher than them. Some theists simply articulate it as Satan wanted to be worshipped like God is worshipped, which is why the spirit of Satan is identified with pride.

The scriptures say that the creation was made subject to vanity, and as far as I can understand vanity manifested through the knowledge of good and evil without the knowledge of the divine nature. Since according to scripture all the events that happen in time are God's expression of His Self, this was God's plan to reveal Himself to His Creation, gathering up all in His divine Nature and populating an everlasting Kingdom of God where He is worshipped in Truth above all things.

 

[gaara4158]

I see nothing wrong with showing concern about propaganda influencing a society.

Sure. So far the only evidence is in favor of OP falling victim to it.

 

[Diamond72]

Maybe western society is not for you?

I think you miss the point that they use education to manipulate public opinion. This is known as propaganda and can take many forms, including textbooks, curriculum, and classroom materials that are designed to shape the way students view the world and to reinforce certain beliefs and values.