Wives vs submission to husbands vs submission to Jesus

-57 · Apr 1, 2017

Let me throw this out there....
Genesis 3:16 say the following:
English Standard
To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

New American Standard
To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

Contrary or for your husband?
I tried going to bible hubs interlinear page of Gen 3:16 and couldn't figure out what word they used to translate "for" or "contrary"

Solomons Porch · Apr 1, 2017

-57 said:
Yet your desire will be for your husband

A woman truly truly only wants "him" her husband, he is suppose to be the "it" man. She totally focuses on him, yet he doesnt focus on her in the same way. She only wants what i previously described, nothing else. She is for him and her desires is for him. She is internal. She isnt external as the man (thus the word contrary) I believe plays a part. She is turned on by the emotions and security. She is "for" him. Her need "for" him draws her to "nag" at him, because he doesn't understand what she wants and that all she wants is him (for). So she wants her way so badly, that she just claws at him and gets on his last nerve. As to where men will just walk away, turn on the tv and zone out, because they just dont know and they just dont understand.

-57 said:
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband

He doesnt even care how he feels, his feelings are not tied up in sex at all. He just has that (contrary) desire to be with her and just "get it on" as Marvin Gaye states. He is totally able to seperate emotional and physical needs. The two of them are not even in the same building together. Trust me. All he wants is for her to go put on the "woo woo" outfit and heels and play play play. THEN after that, he feels loved, he feels desired, he feels wanted, his needs are met. Now he feels like the head of the home, the king of the castle.
His needs physical (contrary)
Her needs emotional (contrary)
Contradicting desires......

dqhall · Apr 1, 2017

Jesus taught that the chiefest among you must be your servant. Who is the better servant in a marriage?

Mathew 23:10 (World English Bible - public domain) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ (Messiah). 11 But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Big Drew · Apr 1, 2017

Solomons Porch said:
A woman truly truly only wants "him" her husband, he is suppose to be the "it" man. She totally focuses on him, yet he doesnt focus on her in the same way. She only wants what i previously described, nothing else. She is for him and her desires is for him. She is internal. She isnt external as the man (thus the word contrary) I believe plays a part. She is turned on by the emotions and security. She is "for" him. Her need "for" him draws her to "nag" at him, because he doesn't understand what she wants and that all she wants is him (for). So she wants her way so badly, that she just claws at him and gets on his last nerve. As to where men will just walk away, turn on the tv and zone out, because they just dont know and they just dont understand.

He doesnt even care how he feels, his feelings are not tied up in sex at all. He just has that (contrary) desire to be with her and just "get it on" as Marvin Gaye states. He is totally able to seperate emotional and physical needs. The two of them are not even in the same building together. Trust me. All he wants is for her to go put on the "woo woo" outfit and heels and play play play. THEN after that, he feels loved, he feels desired, he feels wanted, his needs are met. Now he feels like the head of the home, the king of the castle.
His needs physical (contrary)
Her needs emotional (contrary)
Contradicting desires......

Wow, you sure have a low view of men. Tragic...

2Timothy2:15 · Apr 1, 2017

Victory-N-Christ said:
I can understand that women don't want to be some guy's doormat or sex box but the truth is that sex is a part of marriage .Scripture speaks highly of spouses not holding out on each other in this area.Another question: What woman in her right mind could find joy in submitting to an abusive tyrant?
Here's another one:What man in his right mind could love and respect a woman who disrespects him,nags him,tries to defy him in every way?

The context of that scripture is not about submitting to a tyrant or about sex even a bit. It is about submitting to Godly headship as the LORD defined it. End of story. The wife submits to the Lord as we all do. But in the context of a GODLY marriage the wife is to submit to the headship of her husband. This is plain in scripture. Modern culture and feminism is designed to demasculine the role of the man in the context of marriage and in society. Just watch about any TV show nowadays and the husband is a spineless coward who is pushed around by his children and wife continually. There are not many real men of God these days, but there are a lot of man child's walking around.

Solomons Porch · Apr 1, 2017

Big Drew said:
Wow, you sure have a low view of men. Tragic...

Wrong

2Timothy2:15 · Apr 1, 2017

dqhall said:
Jesus taught that the chiefest among you must be your servant. Who is the better servant in a marriage?

Mathew 23:10 (World English Bible - public domain) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ (Messiah). 11 But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Out of context to this discussion entirely. Matthew 23 is talking about putting religious men like "rabbis" or teachers on pedestals. This is a case in point to what translation you use could lead you down the wrong path entirely.

Matthew 23 KJV

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Big Drew · Apr 1, 2017

Solomons Porch said:
Wrong

Really? You painted a picture that basically said all men care about is sex...as long as his woman is keeping him satisfied sexually that's all that matters to him...modern feminist propaganda.

2Timothy2:15 · Apr 1, 2017

dqhall said:
Jesus taught that the chiefest among you must be your servant. Who is the better servant in a marriage?

Mathew 23:10 (World English Bible - public domain) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ (Messiah). 11 But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

We are all to be servants of the Lord. Also the bible says love your wife as Jesus loves the church. It is not about slave master relationship between an husband and wife. It is about roles and responsibility. In a GODLY marriage the husband is psychically, emotionally, financially, and spiritually responsible for his wife which is a very serious task. Now put into context of Jesus loving the church and we are to love our wives in this same manner we now see this is not a trivial position to be in but rather serious.

Solomons Porch · Apr 1, 2017

Big Drew said:
Really? You painted a picture that basically said all men care about is sex...as long as his woman is keeping him satisfied sexually that's all that matters to him...modern feminist propaganda.

No sir not at all. But in the real world men think about this more than do women. Im speaking outside of the box, not in the box. Women nag, very true. And I explained why they nag. I mean come on this isnt theological debate here, this is just reality. If I didnt help the OP, then I am sooooo sorry. I will back off and let everyone else have at it. What I said was very small in comparison to more that I have to say on the subject, but just as always people jump on the band wagon too quickly and get quick minded in their opinions. We dont live in a thee, thou, thus world. I just believe in being real. No im not a feminist and whatever else u many think of me. The judgment here sometimes is unreal. Have a nice day BigDrew and to the OP sorry if I got off point for ya, wasnt trying to. God bless !!

Solomons Porch · Apr 1, 2017

2Timothy2:15 said:
We are all to be servants of the Lord. Also the bible says love your wife as Jesus loves the church. It is not about slave master relationship between an husband and wife. It is about roles and responsibility. In a GODLY marriage the husband is psychically, emotionally, financially, and spiritually responsible for his wife which is a very serious task. Now put into context of Jesus loving the church and we are to love our wives in this same manner we now see this is not a trivial position to be in but rather serious.

I totally agree with you

Big Drew · Apr 1, 2017

Solomons Porch said:
No sir not at all. But in the real world men think about this more than do women. Im speaking outside of the box, not in the box. Women nag, very true. And I explained why they nag. I mean come on this isnt theological debate here, this is just reality. If I didnt help the OP, then I am sooooo sorry. I will back off and let everyone else have at it. What I said was very small in comparison to more that I have to say on the subject, but just as always people jump on the band wagon too quickly and get quick minded in their opinions. We dont live in a thee, thou, thus world. I just believe in being real. No im not a feminist and whatever else u many think of me. The judgment here sometimes is unreal. Have a nice day BigDrew and to the OP sorry if I got off point for ya, wasnt trying to. God bless !!

I live in the real world too, and trust me, women care just as much about sex as men do...I've worked in retail most of my life, you should hear the things said in the back room of a grocery store by both sexes. This, "Men are pigs!" crap is just something that self righteous women started to feel better about themselves...sorry, that's what doesn't exist in the real world.

Men do care, we do love, we do feel, we do hurt, we do cry...the way we express it may be different from a woman, but that doesn't mean we don't have emotions. We do like feeling respected. But so do women. We do like being appreciated, as do women. We do want to know we're loved...just as women do...we're not driven by sex, but sex is one way we like to show affection...just as women do.

Solomons Porch · Apr 1, 2017

Big Drew said:
I live in the real world too, and trust me, women care just as much about sex as men do...I've worked in retail most of my life, you should hear the things said in the back room of a grocery store by both sexes. This, "Men are pigs!" crap is just something that self righteous women started to feel better about themselves...sorry, that's what doesn't exist in the real world.

Men do care, we do love, we do feel, we do hurt, we do cry...the way we express it may be different from a woman, but that doesn't mean we don't have emotions. We do like feeling respected. But so do women. We do like being appreciated, as do women. We do want to know we're loved...just as women do...we're not driven by sex, but sex is one way we like to show affection...just as women do.

And I totally agree with you. Please read everything I said from beginning to end. I totally agree with you. We just express it differently and thats what i was pointing out. I talked just as much garb about women and as I did men. I do not think men are pigs, never came from my lips. I ran a jail for 7 years, also farmed 8 years, education 8 years.....so my point is what? that I have lived in a mans world all my life and I was pointing out the "difference" in the 2 of them. And I am not trying to be rude to you right now, but I really dont have time to argue with you. And I honestly close with you, have a wonderful day and God bless you.

Alithis · Apr 1, 2017

-57 said:
Were still sinners.

So repent then

CrystalDragon · Apr 1, 2017

Victory-N-Christ said:
I can understand that women don't want to be some guy's doormat or sex box but the truth is that sex is a part of marriage .Scripture speaks highly of spouses not holding out on each other in this area.Another question: What woman in her right mind could find joy in submitting to an abusive tyrant?
Here's another one:What man in his right mind could love and respect a woman who disrespects him,nags him,tries to defy him in every way?

What about those people who get married but never want to have sex ever?

Johnnz · Apr 1, 2017

We need to understand taht passage within its cultural context.

In Roman society men had all the rights. It was strongly patriarchal. A woman was less of person than a man, who alone had the full rights of being a person. And even in a marriage a woman remained under the authority of her father. Slaves were not considered full people, but merely as possessions. They could not legally marry, refuse sex at their masters bidding and kept any children only with the agreement of their male owner. A married man would use concubines and could have a resident mistress or two living in his household. The nuclear family simply did not exist.

Paul reframed that around Jesus. Jesus had taught: Luke 22:24-27 Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. NIV

Paul was simply stating the common marriage code of the day, but as he did with slavery, he gave it an entirely new application. Instead of being the source of domestic authority, now that domestic despot had his role radically inverted. A servant was the lowest ranked person in a household. As Christ became the servant so must the husband. The Gospel of Jesus radically changes everything. It is not at all about authority over, a fallen gentile pattern that is still with us today, but loving service to.

John
NZ

Courage Ampadu · Apr 1, 2017

Solomons Porch said:
No sir not at all. But in the real world men think about this more than do women. Im speaking outside of the box, not in the box. Women nag, very true. And I explained why they nag. I mean come on this isnt theological debate here, this is just reality. If I didnt help the OP, then I am sooooo sorry. I will back off and let everyone else have at it. What I said was very small in comparison to more that I have to say on the subject, but just as always people jump on the band wagon too quickly and get quick minded in their opinions. We dont live in a thee, thou, thus world. I just believe in being real. No im not a feminist and whatever else u many think of me. The judgment here sometimes is unreal. Have a nice day BigDrew and to the OP sorry if I got off point for ya, wasnt trying to. God bless !!

No, don't leave. I am enjoying your posts. You have got a lot of insight into marriage and need to share. There's a lot of theoretical stuff going around when it comes to marriage but we need practical stuff like what you have been sharing.

Marriage is very practical. I call it a school. We enter it to learn. A lot of things that apply in an individual's life do not apply in marriage. For instance a single preacher may go preach anywhere he feels the Lord leading him to go. A married preacher needs to seek his wife's views. He may feel something strongly in his heart yet if he ignores his wife's plea not to go he would be offending God.

When married the family becomes the first mission ground. You don't go evangelising other souls unless you have taken care of the first congregation God has given you - your family. There be some who will disagree but experience has taught me this is how it goes. When the Lord said that the two shall be one he meant it. You become one and do things together. My two pennies.

Victory-N-Christ · Apr 1, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
What about those people who get married but never want to have sex ever?

In a situation like that they're probably in the marriage for companionship.Truthfully I couldn't remain in a marriage with a person who didn't want sex with me. Sorry.

Victory-N-Christ · Apr 1, 2017

Solomons Porch said:
And I totally agree with you. Please read everything I said from beginning to end. I totally agree with you. We just express it differently and thats what i was pointing out. I talked just as much garb about women and as I did men. I do not think men are pigs, never came from my lips. I ran a jail for 7 years, also farmed 8 years, education 8 years.....so my point is what? that I have lived in a mans world all my life and I was pointing out the "difference" in the 2 of them. And I am not trying to be rude to you right now, but I really dont have time to argue with you. And I honestly close with you, have a wonderful day and God bless you.

Hey now.Don't leave. You're making some interesting contributions to this thread.

Victory-N-Christ · Apr 1, 2017

Now I know some are going to disagree with me but a smart woman will look at the example of Adam and Eve and use it to figure out that a woman can persuade a man to do anything.I mean scripture clearly stated that Eve persuaded Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.Even when he knew God said don't do it.What'd he do? Ate it all up.So God put a stop to it by putting Adam in charge and taking away much of Eve's "power" over him or her influence over him.At least that's my take on it.It's not my intention to downgrade women by sharing that.I'm still trying to figure a lot of things out.

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