Makes me wonder where we went wrong. All through the old testament women are treated as property. I wonder if it isn't just a bit of insecurity in todays time.
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Wives submitting to their husbands judgement made in love
- Thread starter ChrisHolland619
- Start date
Makes me wonder where we went wrong. All through the old testament women are treated as property. I wonder if it isn't just a bit of insecurity in todays time.
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Romanseight2005
Guest
Nor was Adam supposed to rule over Eve. That only happened as negative fallout, if you will, from the fall.
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R
Romanseight2005
Guest
Maybe I should ask you this. How would you feel if your wife didn't let you do something that you wanted to do?
If a man's wife wanted to go have sex with another man or something, then he would have the right to say, I am not sticking around if you do that, but the choice is still hers, and a wife could do the same thing if her husband wanted to have sex with someone else, just as an example.
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R
Romanseight2005
Guest
Genesis 3:16Makes me wonder where we went wrong. All through the old testament women are treated as property. I wonder if it isn't just a bit of insecurity in todays time.
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It's telling that you think married men "let" their wives do things.
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BFine
Seed Planter
These have been passed around for a long time, so I will share
them with you.
"10 Commandments For Husbands"
Thou shalt not take thy wife for granted, but will honour and respect her as thy equal. (1 Pet 3:7)
Thy highest allegiance, except God, shall be to thy wife, not thy relatives or friends. (Gen 2:24)
Thou shalt frequently tell thy wife how important & valuable she is to thee. (Phil 2:3; Prov 31:10-11)
Thou shalt hold thy wife's love by the same means that thou won it. (Song Of Solomon 5:10-16)
Thou shalt actively establish family discipline with thy wife's help. (2 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 6:4; Deuteronomy 6:6-9)
Thou shalt remember to do all the little things for thy wife when you say you will. (Mt 5:33-37)
Keep thine eyes on thy own wife, not thy neighbors. (Prov 5:15-20; Job 31:1; Jer 5:8)
Thou shalt make every effort to see things from thy wife's point of view. (Gen 21:12)
Thou shalt not fail to kiss thy wife every morning. (Song of Solomon 8:1)
Thou shalt not be stingy with thy wife when it comes to money. (Esther 5:3)
them with you.
"10 Commandments For Husbands"
Thou shalt not take thy wife for granted, but will honour and respect her as thy equal. (1 Pet 3:7)
Thy highest allegiance, except God, shall be to thy wife, not thy relatives or friends. (Gen 2:24)
Thou shalt frequently tell thy wife how important & valuable she is to thee. (Phil 2:3; Prov 31:10-11)
Thou shalt hold thy wife's love by the same means that thou won it. (Song Of Solomon 5:10-16)
Thou shalt actively establish family discipline with thy wife's help. (2 Timothy 3:15; Ephesians 6:4; Deuteronomy 6:6-9)
Thou shalt remember to do all the little things for thy wife when you say you will. (Mt 5:33-37)
Keep thine eyes on thy own wife, not thy neighbors. (Prov 5:15-20; Job 31:1; Jer 5:8)
Thou shalt make every effort to see things from thy wife's point of view. (Gen 21:12)
Thou shalt not fail to kiss thy wife every morning. (Song of Solomon 8:1)
Thou shalt not be stingy with thy wife when it comes to money. (Esther 5:3)
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Genesis 3:16
If women can subject themselves to that, I say more power to them. I personally find a relationship is more fulfilling, more loving and more productive when we don't live our lives like cave people. Evolve! That's just me.
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CounselorForChrist
Senior Veteran
My fiance is submissive to me because she says she has to be according to the bible and I adore that about her. But at the same time I love her equally and respect her. We discuss things as a couple and at no time do I tell her "I am the man, I have the control!". Although since she does tend to do whatever I want I do feel a bit akward though. Its why I always talk to her about it. Commuication is important.
Sadly though many men will use what the bible says to find women who would practically die if you told them to do so. These men are evil in my mind and controlling. I knew a woman whos husband told his her he wanted her to sleep with another woman in front of him. She told me she did not question because he is the man of the house. Till this day she sleeps with women whenever he demands it. If she even hints at refusing he abuses her and threatens divorce. Its disgusting and sick. I can see why some women are nervous about finding a man because some can be really terrible people.
Sadly though many men will use what the bible says to find women who would practically die if you told them to do so. These men are evil in my mind and controlling. I knew a woman whos husband told his her he wanted her to sleep with another woman in front of him. She told me she did not question because he is the man of the house. Till this day she sleeps with women whenever he demands it. If she even hints at refusing he abuses her and threatens divorce. Its disgusting and sick. I can see why some women are nervous about finding a man because some can be really terrible people.
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R
Romanseight2005
Guest
That's just it though. That was a consequence to the fall, not God's Will. Is not this one of the things that Christ came to demolish, the death from the fall?If women can subject themselves to that, I say more power to them. I personally find a relationship is more fulfilling, more loving and more productive when we don't live our lives like cave people. Evolve! That's just me.
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CounselorForChrist
Senior Veteran
Of course if you say evolve, it means you are saying basically grow into something better, which would mean you disagree with the bible which is a sin. I am not saying I 100% agree that women should be submissive, but if God says he wants it that way who am I to disagree?If women can subject themselves to that, I say more power to them. I personally find a relationship is more fulfilling, more loving and more productive when we don't live our lives like cave people. Evolve! That's just me.
I would be no better then Adam and Eve. Heck thats how we got here in the first place because of wanting diffrent, evolving, more...etc.
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R
Romanseight2005
Guest
No one is saying that women shouldn't be submissive. Where the disagreement comes in, is when people say that men somehow aren't supposed to ever submit, or that it's good and right for men to rule over women. That's taking the curse of the fall, and calling it good, instead of the negative consequence that it was.
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If I'm reading your question right, I would say yes as we are free from the law. It was actually going to be my next statement on the matter. if I've read this wrong then I'm sure you disagree and that's ok too.
Edit: Actually, I just saw your above statement. I agree.
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R
Romanseight2005
Guest
I don't disagree.If I'm reading your question right, I would say yes as we are free from the law. It was actually going to be my next statement on the matter.
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First, no human tells me what is or isn't sin. Something may be a sin to you, but that has nothing to do with me or the next person. That said, we are not cave people and yes we do evolve as we should, into more loving and compassionate human beings, through Jesus Christ. The bible says husbands love your wives as you love yourself. If a man loves himself to the point that he expects his wife to submit fully to him, then he should submit himself fully to his wife, Right? Of course, because to not do so, would be in contradiction to loving your wife as yourself. Case closed!
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I don't believe Paul meant that women should be at a constant knee-too-foot position to the husband, I believe Paul is using this in reference to Genesis 3:16, where God says that the desire of the wife will be the husband's, and he will rule over her. This was put in place because initially, the man was the spiritual leader of the family unit. God gave the spiritual commandment to Adam concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The serpent didn't go to Adam to tempt him, he went to Eve. Eve entertained the serpent, and persuaded Adam to disobey God. Notice, nothing happened when Eve ate, it was when Adam ate that they lost their holiness.
I just think it was a verbal decree of God's design. Christ is the head of the Church, and the man should be head of the family unit. That is all. But, with this comes a slew of implications. The man should be holy, patient, loving, merciful, etc. He needs to have all of the fruits of the spirit, as he is the spiritual leader of the family unit. Therefore, he is also responsible for the well-being of the family unit (both physically and spiritually.) I believe this is where the submission comes into effect. The woman has plenty of responsibilities also, and is not a lesser creature than the man. But, they just have different roles.
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seeingeyes
Newbie
What about the inverse situation? What if the husband wants to participate in a "worldly" activity and the wife states that it's not a good idea and that she doesn't want him to go, but he does anyway? Is he dishonoring his wife?
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Gen 3:16 is part of a section starting in 3:14. It's a curse on the snake, on Adam and Eve, and even on the ground, as some combination of punishment for and consequence of sin. That Eve will have to obey her husband is in parallel with birth being painful weeds and thistles growing, and the snake being cursed.
It is far from a statement of the ideal relationship between men and women. It's a result of things being out of kilter.
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