Without mentioning Trump or Democracy, why do you support Joe Biden for President.

The Barbarian

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People can't document Hillary's claims that the election was stolen,
You were going to do that for us. Apparently, you tossed up a video instead. Just give us a checkable link where Clinton said the 2016 election was stolen. What do you have?

this reminds me of when Democrats tried to say Fauci never said the vaccines were completely effective in stopping people from getting or spreading COVID-19.
Well, that would be interesting. Show us that. Here's what Dr. Fauci said:
After Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,” the edited Instagram clip plays a record scratch sound effect and a voiceover asks in disbelief, “We’re not sure? At this point? That the vaccine protects you against getting infected?”

As stated here on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website, “We’re still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease.”

“Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated,” the CDC website states.

In other words, there is a difference between getting infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and experiencing COVID-19 illness. The Cleveland Clinic explains here that “those who have been vaccinated may still be asymptomatic spreaders,” as the vaccines prevent illness, but “more research is needed to determine if the vaccines also prevent transmission.”

Fauci says that the vaccines are “very good, 94%, 95% in protecting you against clinically recognizable disease, and almost a 100% in protecting you for severe disease,”

Maybe you didn't know that the vaccine was designed to prevent severe illness or death, not to prevent infection. Notice that Fauci also says that the vaccine is 94 or 95 percent effective at preventing disease and almost 100% in preventing severe disease. It's pretty good at preventing infection, but not as good as it is in preventing disease or severe disease or death.

You were fooled about what Fauci said, just as you were fooled about what Hillary Clinton said. When someone tells you something you really, really want to be true, that's when you should be most skeptical.

1701739836700.png

Notice the COVID-19 death rate for fully vaccinated people is less than three per million vaccinated people. So that's a protection rate of 99.7%. Pretty close to 100% as Dr. Fauci pointed out.
 
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The Barbarian

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I support Biden because he is less likely to stage a coup ignoring the will of the voters to be a despot who disregards the Constitution like a typical right-wing nationalist..
Today's winner.
 
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probinson

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this reminds me of when Democrats tried to say Fauci never said the vaccines were completely effective in stopping people from getting or spreading COVID-19. Then I posted the video where he and others said exactly that

Barbarian's selective memory doesn't just apply to Hillary. It also applies to Fauci, as you'll likely soon find out.
 
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Merrill

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You were going to do that for us. Apparently, you tossed up a video instead. Just give us a checkable link where Clinton said the 2016 election was stolen. What do you have?


Well, that would be interesting. Show us that. Here's what Dr. Fauci said:
After Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,” the edited Instagram clip plays a record scratch sound effect and a voiceover asks in disbelief, “We’re not sure? At this point? That the vaccine protects you against getting infected?”

As stated here on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website, “We’re still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease.”

“Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated,” the CDC website states.

In other words, there is a difference between getting infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and experiencing COVID-19 illness. The Cleveland Clinic explains here that “those who have been vaccinated may still be asymptomatic spreaders,” as the vaccines prevent illness, but “more research is needed to determine if the vaccines also prevent transmission.”

Fauci says that the vaccines are “very good, 94%, 95% in protecting you against clinically recognizable disease, and almost a 100% in protecting you for severe disease,”


Maybe you didn't know that the vaccine was designed to prevent severe illness or death, not to prevent infection. Notice that Fauci also says that the vaccine is 94 or 95 percent effective at preventing disease and almost 100% in preventing severe disease. It's pretty good at preventing infection, but not as good as it is in preventing disease or severe disease or death.

You were fooled about what Fauci said, just as you were fooled about what Hillary Clinton said. When someone tells you something you really, really want to be true, that's when you should be most skeptical.

View attachment 340079
Notice the COVID-19 death rate for fully vaccinated people is less than three per million vaccinated people. So that's a protection rate of 99.7%. Pretty close to 100% as Dr. Fauci pointed out.
I already established that Clinton repeatedly said that the election was stolen.

You didn't watch any of the videos, or even really read my post, you just turned around and kept denying.

but for the record, here is another video and transcript of Clinton saying the election was a fraud


and it wasn't just Hillary: the entire Democratic Party basically said the election was a fraud, that Trump is illegitimate, that Russians subverted the electoral process. The formal position of the Democratic Party was that the election was "stolen"

and while Trump and some of his supporters claim the election was stolen from him, you don't see 99% of Republican lawmakers and officials saying the entire election was a fraud, foreign governments colluded to subvert the election, and that Biden is illegitimate

I don't know what brainwashed fantasy land you live in that the above is untrue, or that Democrats gracefully conceded the election, affirmed Trump's presidency, and never made claims of fraud or interference. There is a Mt. Everest-sized pile of evidence to the contrary.

Now onto Fauci (and no, I am not going to rehash the vaccine debate). You claim that Fauci never said the vaccine offered complete protection, and you link to a partisan website to support this. Let's make some observations:

1. Reuters writes that people on the Internet were making false claims about Fauci's statements, and it links to 3 sources as examples. All three of those links were taken down by Instagram --wow, I wonder why?

2. The transcript from CNN that Reuters does link to, is NOT the interview in which Fauci made the claim (convenient)

No, Fauci made the claim on CBS' "Face the Nation", where he said the following:

"“When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community,” Fauci said. “In other words, you become a dead end to the virus. And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere. And that’s when you get a point that you have a markedly diminished rate of infection in the community.”


This is scientifically untrue: the vaccines do NOT protect against infection 100% (or even close to that). In fact, Fauci himself co-wrote a paper that explicitly says that the COVID-19 vaccines do NOT "elicit long-term, protective immunity"


The graph you post about COVID-19 death rates and vaccination status is totally irrelevant to this discussion. I have said since the start that vaccines DO protect against serious disease and complications. That is not what we are talking about. It is whether or not vaccines protect against infection completely --they don't. And graphs which show infection rates over time vs. vaccination efforts are totally misleading and invalid, because they don't make a distinction between unvaccinated people contracting the virus and building natural immunity, vs. vaccinated people (who may also get the virus, like I did: twice). Even Fauci said in 2004 ""The most potent vaccination is getting infected yourself."

Rachel Maddow ran with this statement from Fauci and others about vaccine immunity and declared ""Now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person," Maddow said on her show the evening of March 29, 2021. "A vaccinated person gets exposed to the virus, the virus does not infect them, the virus cannot then use that person to go anywhere else,"

again, this is flat-out-wrong. And don't tell me it isn't, because real science says otherwise.

to recap:

a) Clinton is on record saying the election was stolen
b) Fauci (and others) claimed the vaccines were entirely effective in stopping infection
 
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The Barbarian

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I already established that Clinton repeatedly said that the election was stolen.
You will have when you post a checkable source quoting her saying that. So far, you've promised, but failed to deliver. For obvious reasons.

You didn't watch any of the videos
"I saw it on You Tube! It has to be true!" No, actually, not. If you can't just show us a the quote, then you really can't expect anyone to believe you.

but for the record, here is another video and transcript of Clinton saying the election was a fraud
Read it. She doesn't say it was a fraud, and she doesn't say it was stolen. C'mon. Was Russia interfering in the 2016 election? Yes. Mueller admitted that much:
The 448-page Mueller report contains copious detail about how Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, both by using social media to influence American voters with misinformation and by hacking into the Clinton campaign’s computers. Russian operatives also connected with WikiLeaks to release the stolen material. Lisa Desjardins and William Brangham share some of the key findings.

But it didn't tip the results. They interfered in the 2020 election also, but again, it didn't affect the outcome.

and while Trump and some of his supporters claim the election was stolen from him
That's the difference. Clinton didn't claim the election was stolen. Trump did. And millions of his followers believed him.

Almost a third of Americans still believe the 2020 election result was fraudulent

There's no evidence widespread fraud affected the outcome of the 2020 election, but Trump and allies have spent years undercutting the election's legitimacy.

A lot of them were dumb enough to follow his orders and attacked the Capitol in a vain attempt to overturn the election. Trump and many of his followers were indicted for crimes related to that attempt. I don't know what brainwashed fantasy land you live in that the above is untrue.

Now onto Fauci
Here's what Dr. Fauci said:
After Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,” the edited Instagram clip plays a record scratch sound effect and a voiceover asks in disbelief, “We’re not sure? At this point? That the vaccine protects you against getting infected?”

As stated here on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website, “We’re still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease.”

“Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated,” the CDC website states.

In other words, there is a difference between getting infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and experiencing COVID-19 illness. The Cleveland Clinic explains here that “those who have been vaccinated may still be asymptomatic spreaders,” as the vaccines prevent illness, but “more research is needed to determine if the vaccines also prevent transmission.”


Fauci says that the vaccines are “very good, 94%, 95% in protecting you against clinically recognizable disease, and almost a 100% in protecting you for severe disease,”

As you know, this is all true. See above.

"“When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community,” Fauci said.

This is true.
But that doesn't mean the COVID-19 vaccines are worthless. Experts and public health officials say they do protect people from getting infected and spreading the virus.


Fact check:COVID-19 vaccine protects both the person vaccinated and those around them
"Since the (vaccine) doesn't stop you from getting it or spreading it... How ...are you actually protecting others," reads text in a Nov. 13 post from a page called The Lion's Roar.

"This is false information," Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunobiology and molecular, cellular and developmental biology at Yale University, said in an email. "Vaccines provide significant protection from 'getting it' – infection – and 'spreading it' – transmission – even against the delta variant."


People who deny this are lying to you.

Even Fauci said in 2004 ""The most potent vaccination is getting infected yourself."
It's true. So why don't we all just infect ourselves and get it over with?

Because it kills millions of people thereby. Which seems like a big drawback to me.

Rachel Maddow ran with this statement from Fauci and others about vaccine immunity and declared ""Now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person,"
I had no idea that Maddow was an immunologist. It appears that she understands the vaccine no more than you do. As you know, Dr. Fauci said “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected.” It was later shown to be effective at preventing infection, but not as effective as it was in preventing disease symptoms.

But given this information, I'd suggest not going to Maddow for medical advice.

The graph you post about COVID-19 death rates and vaccination status is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
If you find reality irrelevant, isn't that kind of a clue for you?
have said since the start that vaccines DO protect against serious disease and complications. That is not what we are talking about. It is whether or not vaccines protect against infection completely --they don't.
So now, you agree with Dr. Fauci? What's the problem , then?

again, this is flat-out-wrong. And don't tell me it isn't, because real science says otherwise.
Guess how I know you aren't a real scientist. Yep.

Clinton is on record saying the election was stolen
But you can't give us a checkable quote from her, saying this? I'm pretty sure why.

Fauci (and others) claimed the vaccines were entirely effective in stopping infection
I just showed you that he didn't say that:

Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,”
(link above)


C'mon.
 
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Merrill

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You will have when you post a checkable source quoting her saying that. So far, you've promised, but failed to deliver. For obvious reasons.


"I saw it on You Tube! It has to be true!" No, actually, not. If you can't just show us a the quote, then you really can't expect anyone to believe you.


Read it. She doesn't say it was a fraud, and she doesn't say it was stolen. C'mon. Was Russia interfering in the 2016 election? Yes. Mueller admitted that much:
The 448-page Mueller report contains copious detail about how Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, both by using social media to influence American voters with misinformation and by hacking into the Clinton campaign’s computers. Russian operatives also connected with WikiLeaks to release the stolen material. Lisa Desjardins and William Brangham share some of the key findings.

But it didn't tip the results. They interfered in the 2020 election also, but again, it didn't affect the outcome.


That's the difference. Clinton didn't claim the election was stolen. Trump did. And millions of his followers believed him.

Almost a third of Americans still believe the 2020 election result was fraudulent

There's no evidence widespread fraud affected the outcome of the 2020 election, but Trump and allies have spent years undercutting the election's legitimacy.

A lot of them were dumb enough to follow his orders and attacked the Capitol in a vain attempt to overturn the election. Trump and many of his followers were indicted for crimes related to that attempt. I don't know what brainwashed fantasy land you live in that the above is untrue.


Here's what Dr. Fauci said:
After Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,” the edited Instagram clip plays a record scratch sound effect and a voiceover asks in disbelief, “We’re not sure? At this point? That the vaccine protects you against getting infected?”

As stated here on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website, “We’re still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease.”

“Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated,” the CDC website states.

In other words, there is a difference between getting infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and experiencing COVID-19 illness. The Cleveland Clinic explains here that “those who have been vaccinated may still be asymptomatic spreaders,” as the vaccines prevent illness, but “more research is needed to determine if the vaccines also prevent transmission.”


Fauci says that the vaccines are “very good, 94%, 95% in protecting you against clinically recognizable disease, and almost a 100% in protecting you for severe disease,”

As you know, this is all true. See above.

"“When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community,” Fauci said.

This is true.
But that doesn't mean the COVID-19 vaccines are worthless. Experts and public health officials say they do protect people from getting infected and spreading the virus.


Fact check:COVID-19 vaccine protects both the person vaccinated and those around them
"Since the (vaccine) doesn't stop you from getting it or spreading it... How ...are you actually protecting others," reads text in a Nov. 13 post from a page called The Lion's Roar.

"This is false information," Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunobiology and molecular, cellular and developmental biology at Yale University, said in an email. "Vaccines provide significant protection from 'getting it' – infection – and 'spreading it' – transmission – even against the delta variant."


People who deny this are lying to you.


It's true. So why don't we all just infect ourselves and get it over with?

Because it kills millions of people thereby. Which seems like a big drawback to me.


I had no idea that Maddow was an immunologist. It appears that she understands the vaccine no more than you do. As you know, Dr. Fauci said “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected.” It was later shown to be effective at preventing infection, but not as effective as it was in preventing disease symptoms.

But given this information, I'd suggest not going to Maddow for medical advice.


If you find reality irrelevant, isn't that kind of a clue for you?

So now, you agree with Dr. Fauci? What's the problem , then?


Guess how I know you aren't a real scientist. Yep.


But you can't give us a checkable quote from her, saying this? I'm pretty sure why.


I just showed you that he didn't say that:

Fauci says, “We're not sure, at this point, that the vaccine protects you against getting infected,”
(link above)


C'mon.
"You will have when you post a checkable source quoting her saying that. So far, you've promised, but failed to deliver. For obvious reasons."

Do you know how to read, or how to watch videos on your PC?

I showed you videos and transcripts of Clinton saying the election was stolen. You keep coming back and claiming I didn't

we are done. I am not feeding the troll anymore, or reading through your intellectually dishonest, garbage posts.
 
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The Barbarian

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"You will have when you post a checkable source quoting her saying that. So far, you've promised, but failed to deliver. For obvious reasons."

Do you know how to read, or how to watch videos on your PC?
Just post the link to a checkable source quoting Clinton as saying the 2016 election was stolen. Why is that so hard?

I showed you videos and transcripts of Clinton saying the election was stolen.
Nope. You gave me one link, nothing in it shows her saying the election was stolen. It would be easy to prove me wrong. Just post the link and a quote from the link in which she says the 2016 election was stolen. Shouldn't be difficult. And then you'd have me.

we are done.
I know why. At the end, you have nothing but verbal abuse. Here's the text from your link (all of it):
Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear.

“There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,” Clinton said during an interview for the latest episode of The Atlantic’s politics podcast, The Ticket. “We still don’t know what really happened.”

“There’s just a lot that I think will be revealed. History will discover,” the Democratic Party’s 2016 presidential nominee continued. “But you don’t win by 3 million votes and have all this other shenanigans and stuff going on and not come away with an idea like, ‘Whoa, something’s not right here.’ That was a deep sense of unease.”

Clinton also offered copious criticism of President Trump, saying she warned the country about her former rival, and “it was even worse than I thought it was.”

“I really did feel sometimes like the tree falling in the forest. I believed he was a puppet of Putin. I believed that there was relevant, important information in his tax returns. I believed he did not have the temperament to be president, he was unfit—not a partisan comment, but an assessment of him,” the former secretary of state said.

In August, Clinton said Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden should not concede the upcoming November election “under any circumstances” because she believes “this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don’t give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is.”

The 2020 election results are expected to be delayed, as the use of mail-in ballots, which can take weeks to count, will likely skyrocket due to the coronavirus pandemic.

President Trump has cast doubt on whether the upcoming 2020 election will be legitimate, warning that widespread voting by mail could be a catalyst for election fraud. Democrats have pushed for voting by mail to protect voters from having to leave their homes to vote, possibly exposing themselves to the coronavirus.


She doesn't say the election was stolen, as you claim she did. She correctly claims that there was foreign interference in the election. But there is no indication that Putin's aid to Trump was decisive:

The Mueller Report Is Embarrassing for Trump. But It Doesn't Call Into Question His 2016 Win

The message arrived after midnight on Election Day 2016. As news bulletins reported that Hillary Clinton had called Donald Trump to concede in the presidential race, Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian sovereign-wealth fund CEO and pal of Russian President Vladimir Putin, checked his device. “Putin has won,” came the message.

The identity of that note’s sender is among the redacted parts of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report. While the document chronicles the sweep of Russia’s interference in the election and provides specific examples of the Trump team’s sometimes-artless interactions with Russian officials, it is silent on a key unanswered question: did those Russian efforts actually swing the outcome of the 2016 contest?


Learn from this and go on.
 
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