Without goading, it's now 2022. What timetables proved incorrect?

[eclipsenow]

And what do we do with the knowledge that yet more timetables based on a future-schedule reading of Revelation have proved wrong? Yet again? How passionate were the people promoting these timetables? How utterly certain?

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I was saved in 1971. I cannot count the number of times ministers have declared "the Lord is coming this year." After hearing this for 50 years, my ears have become numb to it.
I am with Paul. The Lord will not come for His people until after the antichrist shows up on the scene. Unless you see the man of sin on nightly news... just stop.
Until then, I am going to occupy.

 

[tranquil]

And what do we do with the knowledge that yet more timetables based on a future-schedule reading of Revelation have proved wrong? Yet again? How passionate were the people promoting these timetables? How utterly certain?

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

I do have an answer, but frankly, I would rather just make a separate thread about it because I think you are goading and not sincere in the slightest. Honestly, I think you are a shill, just my opinion.

Depending on your reply, maybe I will respond to the OP, maybe not.

 

[Christian Gedge]

And what do we do with the knowledge that yet more timetables based on a future-schedule reading of Revelation have proved wrong? Yet again? How passionate were the people promoting these timetables? How utterly certain?

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

They just hop over to the latest political conspiracy theory. When that gets debunked it time for another end-time prediction. When that fails its back to ...
... and so the merry-go-round continues.

 

[Douggg]

And what do we do with the knowledge that yet more timetables based on a future-schedule reading of Revelation have proved wrong? Yet again? How passionate were the people promoting these timetables? How utterly certain?

The one that failed to work out that I can think of is that 2011 would be the year that the 7 year 70th week would begin. Based on 1948 + 70 years = 2018, minus 7 years to give the 2011 expectation.

Why it failed is because of a misinterpretation of the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree as being Israel - and not considering Jerusalem as the fig tree.

The correct base year is 1967, not 1948. 1967 +70 years = 2037, minus 7 years to give the 2030 expectation. Sometime between now and then, Gog/Magog will take place, followed by the 7 years.

Are you following the thread on Russia prepares to go to war?

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

Zero. And I know of a lot of people who were expecting by the end of 2011.

 

[eclipsenow]

I do have an answer, but frankly, I would rather just make a separate thread about it because I think you are goading and not sincere in the slightest. Honestly, I think you are a shill, just my opinion.

Depending on your reply, maybe I will respond to the OP, maybe not.

A shill for what? Amillennialism? Then you've got me in one. But goading? I'm sincerely asking whose 'prophecies' did not come true - and how the church should relate to such 'false prophets' from now on? Isn't this a valid question to ask? Half these people ad that they're not actually just going off Sola Scriptura (bible alone) but also that God TOLD them what it means! Surely this qualifies as false prophecy? Personally, I'm with the 4 Sola's all the way. I'm not evangelical but Reformed Evangelical. Sola Scriptura. I have a kind of allergic reaction to when people tell me "God told me." It comes from 2 Timothy 3:16 where we are promised that the scriptures will be able to FULLY EQUIP us for every good work. Not partially - with a little help from some kind of 'inner voice' (bad dream / hunger pains / wishful thinking) but FULLY. FULLY equipped by the bible and faith in Christ. I have all the information I need to live a godly life. Not that I don't need to keep reviewing the bible or learning more, but that I can get on with God's mission for the world and wise living with what's in His Word. The amount of times I hear futurists saying only THEY understand the bible because they've had some special voice from God.... dear oh dear.

 

[eclipsenow]

The correct base year is 1967, not 1948. 1967 +70 years = 2037, minus 7 years to give the 2030 expectation. Sometime between now and then, Gog/Magog will take place, followed by the 7 years.

OK - so you've got your own timetable. What if Russia doesn't invade? Why is Russia Gog / Magog? Why isn't it the Old Testament prophetical representation of ANY kingdom that opposes God? What if Russia doesn't invade? How do you define Gog / Magog by 2030 and what if I ask this same question in 2031?

 

[Douggg]

OK - so you've got your own timetable. What if Russia doesn't invade? Why is Russia Gog / Magog? Why isn't it the Old Testament prophetical representation of ANY kingdom that opposes God? What if Russia doesn't invade? How do you define Gog / Magog by 2030 and what if I ask this same question in 2031?

The window for Russia to invade Israel is between now and the end of 2030.

The leader of Russia is Gog. Russia is the strongest member of the coalition of nations making up Gog/Magog - listed in Ezekiel 38.

What I think you should do is pray to God to give you skill and understanding, like Gabriel did for Daniel in Daniel 9:22-23, regarding the the time of the end vision of the little horn, in Daniel 8.


22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

 

[eclipsenow]

Without losing the thrust of this thread, I'll allow a little excursion into Daniel 9.

Daniel 9's Anointed One. First, it's not literal but literary, and what it means to convey is hard for modern theologians to unpack. The numbers could be literal or symbolic, making it more difficult still.

Who is the Anointed one? Many think it is Antiochus. Many think it could be Jesus. Counting out the Seventy Sevens depends on which decree from which Persian emperor letting the Jews go home, or various figures in Jewish rule go home, that you start from. People try a few counting games with the weeks and argue when to count from and to - but none of them quite work.

But quite frequently the number 7 is symbolic, and means in God's perfect timing. 70 is multiplied by 10 - the complete, overflowing fullness of God's perfect time. In this case, it's not so much about actual years and not numerically fixated. It's symbolic. In this view, "years" represent chunks of time, and rough proportions.

There are many examples of Jewish number symbolism not actually counting things but meaning things. "Six" is man's number, the day of the week we were made on, the number of days we work, and short of God's perfection in the "Seven".

Or take "A third", used in Revelation. "A third were burned but the rest remained" - which does NOT mean a numerical third. Theologically it means a SCARY number died - but in God's grace more survived than died. In this view, as I'm an Amil I see Revelation as describing the theological period we live in between Jesus Resurrection and his Return. So Revelation describes diseases that kill "A third" of the people. Understanding that the Jews used "A third" like that means Revelation is generally describing what happens in pandemics like today's Covid. And in God's grace, more survived than died.

Or take 3.5 years - times times and half a time. That's a limited, finite period of time. It does not matter how long specifically - because it's just saying a 'short' time - not God's fullness of time. 1000 is figurative for a 'gazillion'.

So maybe these 'weeks' are chunks of time illustrating roughly what order things will happen in God's perfect time.

But what does Daniel's weeks mean? I'm open to a few ideas - and bounce between them depending on the best argument of the day. It could be that it refers to Antiochus, and his trashing of the temple. IF that's what DANIEL is talking about, then Jesus would be referring BACK to Antiochus when he predicts FORWARD to the Romans destroying Jerusalem as "An abomination that causes desolation."

Or another reading of Daniel is that it is JESUS who is cut off.

"26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing."
(Jesus is killed)

"The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."
(Romans)

"The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

(Romans destroy the temple, Rome rules Judea for a while but eventually destroys the temple, and we are left in the last figurative 3.5 years. It's been 2000 years and counting, but we're still in the 3.5 years because it is a limited period of time - a finite period of time.)

What Daniel's sevens mean is disputed. It's not terribly clear. But we get the message that God was in control, promising Daniel that his people would be rescued from their sin, an Anointed one would die, and there would be rough times ahead. And it roughly works either way - even if it refers to Antiochus - Jesus himself calls the end of the temple an "abomination that causes desolation." Either way? This is not a timetable for the future, but about events in our past. We should read the clearer parts of the New Testament for descriptions of our future - which are glorious - but hidden behind the secret of when Jesus will return like a thief in the night.

 

[Douggg]

Or take 3.5 years - times times and half a time. That's a limited, finite period of time. It does not matter how long specifically - because it's just saying a 'short' time - not God's fullness of time. 1000 is figurative for a 'gazillion'.

I think the figurative expression for a long time is - "for many days" as used in the old testament.

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

 

[trophy33]

Poor futurists. If I can paraphrase a verse:

"For I can testify about them that they are zealous, but their zeal is not based on knowledge."
R 10:2

None of their timetables proved correct. And not just timetables, none of their predictions, either.

 

[Douggg]

Poor futurists. If I can paraphrase a verse:

"For I can testify about them that they are zealous, but their zeal is not based on knowledge."
R 10:2

None of their timetables proved correct. And not just timetables, none of their predictions, either.

The thread is not supposed to be about goading.

 

[klutedavid]

The window for Russia to invade Israel is between now and the end of 2030.

The leader of Russia is Gog. Russia is the strongest member of the coalition of nations making up Gog/Magog - listed in Ezekiel 38.

What I think you should do is pray to God to give you skill and understanding, like Gabriel did for Daniel in Daniel 9:22-23, regarding the the time of the end vision of the little horn, in Daniel 8.


22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

How do you know for certain that Russia is Gog?

 

[trophy33]

The thread is not supposed to be about goading.

Nothing from futurists was proved correct so far. Everything failed. For me, I have a pity for these people, because I see they have a zeal.

If you see it as goading, you may be oversensitive.

I have been a futurist. I have not lost faith, but I had to leave futurism.

 

[klutedavid]

And what do we do with the knowledge that yet more timetables based on a future-schedule reading of Revelation have proved wrong? Yet again? How passionate were the people promoting these timetables? How utterly certain?

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

I am currently working on a brand new antichrist. The next president of the USA. Me get ahead of the end times pack, far too much competition these days.

 

[eclipsenow]

I think the figurative expression for a long time is - "for many days" as used in the old testament.

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Absolutely incorrect. There are different twists and turns in the number symbolism. 1000 = "A gazillion" which you already know. So John says we're in the Millennium - and have been for 2000 years - and that anyone martyred is safe 'in heaven' (with God / however that works) during these evil Last Days, 2000 years and counting.

7 is the perfect amount of time.
3.5 is a short but limited time.

So sometimes these Last Days are referred to as seeming like a gazillion years, and other times these Last days are portrayed as really a short and finite time - a limited time - for the comfort of God's people who are suffering.

 

[trophy33]

To your knowledge, has anyone lost their faith over this?

The pentecostal church I grew up in was of course holding to futurism.

99% of people left the church in lets say 15 years and stopped attending any church. Its hard to pinpoint if it was because of failed pentecostal promises or because of failed futurism promises. Perhaps a bit of both.

 

[eclipsenow]

The pentecostal church I grew up in was of course holding to futurism.

99% of people left the church in lets say 15 years and stopped attending any church. Its hard to pinpoint if it was because of failed pentecostal promises or because of failed futurism promises. Perhaps a bit of both.

That is SO sad to hear.

 

[trophy33]

That is SO sad to hear.

Its not encouraging.

On the other hand, if their faith was based upon such things, it was destined to end in such way, sooner or later. Christians must build their house on solid foundations. Eschatology is not it.

 

[keras]

None of their timetables proved correct. And not just timetables, none of their predictions, either.

How can anyone say the Prophesies have failed, if the age isn't over yet?

What we are told, is that there will be another great reset of our civilization, similar in magnitude as what happened in the days of Noah.
Then; the narrative of Revelation from Rev 7 until the final Judgment, followed by Eternity, can unfold.
Dismissing it all because it hasn't happened now or in history, is rather premature and means that those who do that, have little regard for over a quarter of our Bibles.