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Lion King

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Grape juice didn't exist.

There was no unfermented grape juice. That passage is speaking about wine.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin. Numbers 6:1-4


I totally believe you....
 
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New Legacy

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Not everyone has access to grapes.

The answer given to me above was "communion of one kind." Everybody does have access to bread.

There is no place on earth that does not have access. Unless you are talking about expeditions that choose not to take them. Bread is no more ubiquitous than grapes.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I gave you the words used. The word that your bible translated to Fruit of the Vine meant wine in Hebrew and Greek. It never once refers to as grape juice.


I'm done arguing this with you ad nauseum. Grape juice is not wine. The fruit of the vine that is spoken of in the bible translates to WINE. That is not my opinion, that is how the language works. There was no such thing as grape juice in biblical times. That is not my opinion, that is a fact. It was impossible to have grape juice.

I'm sure that God will not send you to hell for using grape juice in your communion, but for me, Jesus used wine and I see no sense in substituting something else, regardless of the reason.
 
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New Legacy

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Juice is the English translation. And that juice or liquid was vinegar or wine. There was no such thing as grape juice to them. There was no concept. English 'juice' refers to a liquid from a fruit or vegetable.

If you are arguing that grape juice was consumed you are being silly. You can play word games all you want, it comes down to this:
Squeezed grapes make juice, that juice has yeast, that yeast eat juice, that juice becomes wine - and back them, in a matter of hours.
 
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New Legacy

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Christians took wine with them. Wine is not a luxury, it was part of life in a world before sanitary water.

Do you know why the puritans arrived where they did? They were low on beer.
 
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New Legacy

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"Do THIS" not "Do like this with doritos and a coke"
 
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Lion King

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I gave you the words used. The word that your bible translated to Fruit of the Vine meant wine in Hebrew and Greek. It never once refers to as grape juice.

Please show this "older and TRUER" translation of Numbers 6:1-4.


Uhmmm, again no offence but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The "fruit of the vine" as used in the Scriptures literally means GRAPES.

And at the season he sent to the farmers a servant, that he might receive from the farmers of the fruit of the vineyard. Mark 12:2

And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits. Matthew 21:34




PS. Amused @ your facts. not a single Scriptural evidence was seen on that day.
 
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New Legacy

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Because Jesus used wine.

There are two different words because they are two different things.
 
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New Legacy

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So, grape juice will be wine, if left alone? IOW, there is natural ferment on the grape.

It becomes wine on its own.

Things rot, but humans figured out how to make things rot in a way that kept their nutrition. They found that grape juice will destroy itself in a day or two. But, if you put a lid on the container, it becomes something you can drink.
 
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Lion King

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LOL no.

You can make grape juice out of freshly squeezed grapes. As long as you consume the beverage quickly, it will not turn into wine or vinegar.

People have been doing this since ancient times, already gave you enough examples.
 
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Lion King

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Because Jesus used wine.

There are two different words because they are two different things.

Of course, wine is of the fruit of the vine, after all.

Grape juice is also of the fruit of the vine, so its permitted for the LORD's Supper.

The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.
 
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New Legacy

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Of course, there were no refrigerators back then to keep the juice fresh. However, this doesn't change the fact that people drank juice from freshly squeezed grapes even before the time of Moses.

Maybe a vineyard owner as a means of inspection, in the fall.

But regular folks? The vineyard has to squeeze and contain the grape juice and then ship it out, within a matter of hours. Grape juice would be a weird oddity to them.

Squeeze the grapes at dawn, by the dusk that thing is BOILING with fermentation.
 
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New Legacy

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Do this- and substitute with other things where you wish.
 
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New Legacy

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Wine was used. It had been six months for a product that changes in a day or two.

People make these arguments because they have been taught to hate alcohol. Alcohol is evil. Yet, God created alcohol and the human reaction to alcohol. Alcohol is evil not in itself, but for what people do.

God gave us great things for healing and health, we horribly abused them.
 
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ironsheik7

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I've never seen so many fools in my life that do not even have the common sense to understand wine is made from grapes !

Do I need to actually post a link to a video on youtube of a man making wine by dropping in a packet of yeast into a bottle of welches grape juice ? let me state this now wine is nothing more than grape juice with yeast added, then the wine sits for 4-6 weeks this is called fermentation, if you don't know what the word fermentation means then go ask your mommie little kids
 
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RDKirk

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There is no place on earth that does not have access. Unless you are talking about expeditions that choose not to take them. Bread is no more ubiquitous than grapes.

There are at least 6,000 Christians held in North Korean prisons who might disagree with you.
 
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New Legacy

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It's always interesting when people look at words as what they mean to us today, rather than what they meant.

Juice is used in English to describe a liquid that derives from a fruit or vegetable which now implies a lack of fermentation.

The Hebrew is speaking of liquids from grapes, not 'grape juice' which implies lack of fermentation.
 
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New Legacy

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Please show this "older and TRUER" translation of Numbers 6:1-4.

Just did.



They could not be speaking of something that did not exist within their minds.
 
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