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And do you not know (or care) that exposure to alcoholic beverages even in SMALL quantities are fully capable of triggering relapses in recovering alcoholics??
It was of this very concern that Thomas Bramwell Welch in 1869 created the non-alcoholic "fruit of the vine" as a SAFE communion substance.
Different persons have posted the answer to that question on other threads, but that change came only about a century or so ago, and it was the result of a campaign by the Welch's Grape Juice company.
That's why I always smile a little bit when reading the very vehement posts from advocates of grape juice, complete with what they have been told in their churches about linguistic intricacies, scientific studies of alcohol percentages in wine, how grapes were processed 2000 years ago, how to interpret the relevant Bible verses, and so on.
AFAIK, traditional AA practice was to allow a tiny sip of communion wine without jeopardising "sober" status. Some alcoholics take a low-alcohol option, if available, or partake only of the bread.
Special arrangements for alcoholics need not drive what everybody else is given.
I don’t believe that the Eucharist, if received worthily, can harm a member of the congregation.
AFAIK, traditional AA practice was to allow a tiny sip of communion wine without jeopardising "sober" status. Some alcoholics take a low-alcohol option, if available, or partake only of the bread.
Special arrangements for alcoholics need not drive what everybody else is given.
I don’t believe that the Eucharist, if received worthily, can harm a member of the congregation.
That would depend on the basis of that belief, wouldn't it?Are you prepared to jeopardize a fellow Christian based on your "belief"??
The Assemblies of God have always used "Welch's" (Red or White), since we know that "Communion" isn't "magic", nor is it "Sacramental".
Are you prepared to jeopardize a fellow Christian based on your "belief"??
The Assemblies of God have always used "Welch's" (Red or White), since we know that "Communion" isn't "magic", nor is it "Sacramental". It's just an ordinance we honor, generally once each month.
Technically, "wine" as spoken of in the Bible is grape juice, fermented or not. "New Wine" is fresh grape juice. They didn't get to enjoy it often (except when it was "new") because the fermentation process starts so soon. But fermented wine was able to keep and they made use of it.I get it some people are alcoholics, and yet some are gluttons simotaniously.
Should that mean we should disregard that there was wine in 'the cup'?
In persuit of favor of men, at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice? (Is this not disregarding truth in favor of men, contrary to the true custom in which we were to be in Christ?) Why not water?
Nobody would be 'dissipated' in wine, with drunkeness however have we not been taught to have discernment, and to have wine in rememberance in Christ as not only a symbol of the new covenant He made with us, but also a reflection of taking part in His grace?
I feel marijuana (in legal territory) should be handled with the same reverence in Christ.
I get it, people get addicted to alcohol and stay away from it.
Yet is it not to our weakness where He is strong? Why do organizations like AA keep people from embracing this honorable liturgy in reverence for God rather than man?
I am opposed to the use of anything except plain red wine dilluted prior to communion with boiling hot water, in accordance with the ancient tradition of the Church, for the Eucharist. White wine is unacceptable because it does not resemble blood, and grape juice is I think acceptable only as a substitute in Islamic countries where proper wine cannot be obtained.
Are you prepared to jeopardize a fellow Christian based on your "belief"??
The Assemblies of God have always used "Welch's" (Red or White), since we know that "Communion" isn't "magic", nor is it "Sacramental". It's just an ordinance we honor, generally once each month.
I get it some people are alcoholics, and yet some are gluttons simotaniously.
Should that mean we should disregard that there was wine in 'the cup'?
In persuit of favor of men, at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice? (Is this not disregarding truth in favor of men, contrary to the true custom in which we were to be in Christ?) Why not water?
Nobody would be 'dissipated' in wine, with drunkeness however have we not been taught to have discernment, and to have wine in rememberance in Christ as not only a symbol of the new covenant He made with us, but also a reflection of taking part in His grace?
I feel marijuana (in legal territory) should be handled with the same reverence in Christ.
I get it, people get addicted to alcohol and stay away from it.
Yet is it not to our weakness where He is strong? Why do organizations like AA keep people from embracing this honorable liturgy in reverence for God rather than man?
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