Wine to juice, why not water?..

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I get it some people are alcoholics, and yet some are gluttons simotaniously.
Should that mean we should disregard that there was wine in 'the cup'?
In persuit of favor of men, at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice? (Is this not disregarding truth in favor of men, contrary to the true custom in which we were to be in Christ?) Why not water?
Nobody would be 'dissipated' in wine, with drunkeness however have we not been taught to have discernment, and to have wine in rememberance in Christ as not only a symbol of the new covenant He made with us, but also a reflection of taking part in His grace?

I feel marijuana (in legal territory) should be handled with the same reverence in Christ.

I get it, people get addicted to alcohol and stay away from it.
Yet is it not to our weakness where He is strong? Why do organizations like AA keep people from embracing this honorable liturgy in reverence for God rather than man?
 

mikeangel

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Because some Alcoholics, when they have even a sip, have an intense desire for more. And then they cannot stop. And then they get drunk, and then wreck the car, beat the wife, abuse the kids etc. etc. In the church (RCC) when you receive just the bread, the point of the mass where the priest breaks a tiny piece off and drops in in the cup (mingling I think it is) You symbolically get both when receiving the bread. I had a priest who was a recovering alcoholic who did not drink the wine. Its not Gods will that someone is tempted beyond their ability to resist. And he will not hold it against them if they either abstain or drink Grape Juice. Ive been to a Messianic Jewish Church where you had a choice of either. Peace
 
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Dave-W

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In the NT, the usual designation is "fruit of the vine." that is from the ancient Jewish blessing over the cup and applies equally to unfermented grape juice and to alcoholic wine:

Blessed are YOU oh Lord, our God, King of the universe, who creates the fruit of the vine.​

So either is legitimate for communion.
at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice? (
That came about with the rise of the "temperance" movement in the 1800s. It was a reaction to gross public drunkenness and turned something social and political into protestant doctrine. What I was raised with was that even accidentally smelling alcohol was the sin of drunkenness and made you lose your salvation.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I get it some people are alcoholics, and yet some are gluttons simotaniously.
Should that mean we should disregard that there was wine in 'the cup'?
In persuit of favor of men, at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice? (Is this not disregarding truth in favor of men, contrary to the true custom in which we were to be in Christ?) Why not water?
Nobody would be 'dissipated' in wine, with drunkeness however have we not been taught to have discernment, and to have wine in rememberance in Christ as not only a symbol of the new covenant He made with us, but also a reflection of taking part in His grace?

I feel marijuana (in legal territory) should be handled with the same reverence in Christ.

I get it, people get addicted to alcohol and stay away from it.
Yet is it not to our weakness where He is strong? Why do organizations like AA keep people from embracing this honorable liturgy in reverence for God rather than man?
I agree, but not with Marijuana. Marijuana has properties that can induce serious psychoses, as those places that have legalised it are finding out.

I don't know how anyone can interpret "wine" to be grape juice. I was an alcoholic before I was saved. The grace of God got me freedom. I could drink if I wanted but mostly I did not. Real freedom is being able to control drinking, not total abstinence. However, abstinence is far better than being a drunk.
 
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Albion

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I get it some people are alcoholics, and yet some are gluttons simotaniously.
Should that mean we should disregard that there was wine in 'the cup'?
In persuit of favor of men, at what point did the Lord's supper change from a shot of wine (which cannot get you 'drunk' anyway) to some juice?
Different persons have posted the answer to that question on other threads, but that change came only about a century or so ago, and it was the result of a campaign by the Welch's Grape Juice company.

That's why I always smile a little bit when reading the very vehement posts from advocates of grape juice, complete with what they have been told in their churches about linguistic intricacies, scientific studies of alcohol percentages in wine, how grapes were processed 2000 years ago, how to interpret the relevant Bible verses, and so on.
 
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What do you mean by this exactly???

Simply that nobody should be dissipated with marijuana, or drunk.
Rather 'use responsibly'.

In the NT, the usual designation is "fruit of the vine." that is from the ancient Jewish blessing over the cup and applies equally to unfermented grape juice and to alcoholic wine:

Blessed are YOU oh Lord, our God, King of the universe, who creates the fruit of the vine.​

So either is legitimate for communion.

That came about with the rise of the "temperance" movement in the 1800s. It was a reaction to gross public drunkenness and turned something social and political into protestant doctrine. What I was raised with was that even accidentally smelling alcohol was the sin of drunkenness and made you lose your salvation.

Sounds like a 'war' against dissipation by short tempered, dogmatic, and law of man...
Granted some do not eat meat... Yet I'd rather hold true to the tradition of God than man, if it does not actually hurt others.
There is in fact a difference between dissipation and a shot of wine... No need to whine about God's grace.. Id say ebrace self control..

I agree, but not with Marijuana. Marijuana has properties that can induce serious psychoses, as those places that have legalised it are finding out.

I don't know how anyone can interpret "wine" to be grape juice. I was an alcoholic before I was saved. The grace of God got me freedom. I could drink if I wanted but mostly I did not. Real freedom is being able to control drinking, not total abstinence. However, abstinence is far better than being a drunk.

Marijuana has other benefits.. If marijuana should be illegal so should aspirin. And it's a fact hemp can help the economy by creating stronger. Products like rope, paper, houses, and many other things.

Real freedom is being able to control drinking, not total abstinence. However, abstinence is far better than being a drunk.
...true.. Yet scripture refers to not staring at the spirits in wine... Maybe there is more to the wine than the world of AA presumes, let alone the world. Of coarse neither wine, or marijuana should be used for drunkeness or dissipation.

I can't emphasize enough, 'use responsibly' with reverence and thanks to God the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ, with gratitude.
 
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As a recovered user (seven years to get totally free) I am totally opposed to Marijuana. Anyone promoting it is being seriously misinformed or irresponsible.

I'd say it's more of a distraction.

Just because your herbivore and someone is an omnivore, does not mean the weaker brother who is the herbivore should impose their way of life on everyone else.

Better yet, what you loose and bind is on you, and not on me.

However I won't eat meat in front of you, as not to be a stumbling block.
I respect your stance on that, please respect others.
Also, AI technology is more intimidating than marijuana use. Infact hemp/marijuana might be key to removing the radiation rays from 5G-6G towers in the future from damaging our minds by causing cancer and stuff through radiation it's called radiation clean up.. However that's futuristic and sort of is a distraction from the point of this topic...
Granted it's focused more on hemp than marijuana, it's hard to have one without the other.

Using Hemp For Radiation Cleanup — Steemit
 
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Marijuana opened me up to serious spiritual bondage.

Some of my friends are no longer alive.

I can't say strongly enough, stay well away.
I don't know your story but your friends did not die from or because of marijuana.
Some people would say the same about spiritual bondage towards their jobs, phones, art, and alcohol. Yet it's all due to their weaknesses where God is strong.
Some are freemen in Christ, some are bondservants.

I can't say strongly enough, your law is a personal perception and we are saved by faith through grace in Christ not the law of man.
Rather than discredit the law. I'd like to establish the law of 'use moderately, and responsibly, without drunkeness, or dissipation.'

Good luck holding yourself to your own standard, I commend you in the keeping of your own law.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I don't know your story but your friends did not die from or because of marijuana.
Some people would say the same about spiritual bondage towards their jobs, phones, art, and alcohol. Yet it's all due to their weaknesses where God is strong.
Some are freemen in Christ, some are bondservants.

I can't say strongly enough, your law is a personal perception and we are saved by faith through grace in Christ not the law of man.
Rather than discredit the law. I'd like to establish the law of 'use moderately, and responsibly, without drunkeness, or dissipation.'

Good luck holding yourself to your own standard, I commend you in the keeping of your own law.

A strong warning is not a law...

Those who promote the use of Marijuana Will be accountable to some degree for it's outcomes.

I consider your position grossly irresponsible.
 
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A strong warning is not a law...

Those who promote the use of Marijuana Will be accountable to some degree for it's outcomes.

I consider your position grossly irresponsible.

a law is defined as a restriction.

I consider your position as the equivalent of a person who does no drugs. Including caffeine, aspirin, benedryl,, and umm wine. Although Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding.

Do not seek your own, but seek God's will for His creation.

However if you do infact abstain from all drugs I commend you and view you honorably. However we are all disiples and all learning whom are in Christ and nobody should practice drug use, yet some aspirin may very well cure your migraine one day...

Have a nice day, as this is off topic.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Simply that nobody should be dissipated with marijuana, or drunk.
Rather 'use responsibly'.



Sounds like a 'war' against dissipation by short tempered, dogmatic, and law of man...
Granted some do not eat meat... Yet I'd rather hold true to the tradition of God than man, if it does not actually hurt others.
There is in fact a difference between dissipation and a shot of wine... No need to whine about God's grace.. Id say ebrace self control..



Marijuana has other benefits.. If marijuana should be illegal so should aspirin. And it's a fact hemp can help the economy by creating stronger. Products like rope, paper, houses, and many other things.

Real freedom is being able to control drinking, not total abstinence. However, abstinence is far better than being a drunk.
...true.. Yet scripture refers to not staring at the spirits in wine... Maybe there is more to the wine than the world of AA presumes, let alone the world. Of coarse neither wine, or marijuana should be used for drunkeness or dissipation.

I can't emphasize enough, 'use responsibly' with reverence and thanks to God the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ, with gratitude.
Hemp does not have THC. I believe that we should avoid anything addictive. I know the mess that 3 users got themselves into. One of them is still away with the pixies. I don't know anyone who gets high on aspirin. Responsible use of Marijuana? I don't believe it is possible unless for genuine medical reasons under medical supervision. There are way too many cases of psychosis with users. Those US states that have legalised dope will confirm that.
 
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You people are off topic and close minded imposing restrictions due to your hard hearts.

I cannot change what you personally choose to loose and bind, however don't tread on me over something you are simply hard headed about to impose your dogma of a war on a plant that has more than one use.

God's will be done, above even my own will.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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I get it some people are alcoholics

And do you not know (or care) that exposure to alcoholic beverages even in SMALL quantities are fully capable of triggering relapses in recovering alcoholics??

It was of this very concern that Thomas Bramwell Welch in 1869 created the non-alcoholic "fruit of the vine" as a SAFE communion substance.

Why do organizations like AA keep people from embracing this honorable liturgy in reverence for God rather than man?

Because the CARE ABOUT THE WELL-BEING of the people who come to them for help in breaking their addiction. "Liturgy" isn't more important the human well-being. Communion isn't a "Sacrament" - it's a REMEMBERANCE as Jesus told us it was.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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You people are off topic and close minded imposing restrictions due to your hard hearts.

I cannot change what you personally choose to loose and bind, however don't tread on me over something you are simply hard headed about to impose your dogma of a war on a plant that has more than one use.

God's will be done, above even my own will.
?? WHY GET HIGH ??
 
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Tigger45

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My congregation offers both wine and juice and gluten free waffers for what its worth. But I’m at a loss how marijuana fits into the scenario whether legal or not.
 
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