Will the Ark ever be found?

[daydreamergurl15]

Do ya think the Saints today could touch if it is ever found?
[/INDENT]



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If it was ever truly found, I would not touch the ark.

 

[SharonL]

In one of Paul's visions, doesn't he see the Ark in Heaven? I'll have to do some research, but seems I read that.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

In one of Paul's visions, doesn't he see the Ark in Heaven? I'll have to do some research, but seems I read that.

John did.
Revelations 11:19

 

[Alvis]

Do you believe the Ark of the Covenant will ever be found?

Yes, the Vatican owns it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by CreedIsChrist

Do you believe the Ark of the Covenant will ever be found?
​

Yes, the Vatican owns it.

From this article I read sometime back, Israel also thinks the Vatican has the Menorah:

http://www.christianforums.com/t691913-2/#post8097227
ISRAEL SEEKS RETURN OF TEMPLE ARTIFACTS

Rabbis urge Vatican to permit search of storerooms for treasures
[URL="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/"]http://www.WorldNetDaily.com[/URL]

[SIZE=-1]When Israel's chief rabbis meet Pope John Paul II today, they will seek permission to search Vatican storerooms for artifacts[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]such as the huge [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]golden menorah[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] that stood in the Temple in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Vatican officials confirmed to the Associated Press the meeting would take place but declined comment on the rabbis' request.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Yehuda Metzger and Shlomo Amar are to have an audience with Pope John Paul, the first by Israel's chief rabbis in the Vatican.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The pope met Israel's previous chief rabbis during his visit in 2000.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Amar, spiritual leader of Israel's Jews of North African origin, told Israeli army radio that when he received the invitation, he[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]brought up the issue of the artifacts.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"The truth is I asked them, I could not resist," [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]he said. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]"I asked them about the Temple vessels and the menorah."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When the Romans sacked Jerusalem in AD 70, they took Temple treasures with them. Legend has it that religious articles from[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]the Temple, including the menorah, were among them. Amar said the Vatican has already denied the menorah is there.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Arch of Titus in Rome depicts victorious Roman legions marching off with the seven-branch menorah in hand.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"My heart tells me this is not the truth, but that it is some kind of camouflage,"[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Amar said.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]An aide to the rabbi said the Vatican was not likely to permit a search. The Vatican will allow the rabbis to view rare Jewish[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]manuscripts in its possession, Amar said. He said if the rabbis were to come across [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]"other objects,"[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] they would be happy to [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]bring them home.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Maariv newspaper in Israel said the two rabbis could also seek to buy back a candelabrum that came from the Temple.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]It is believed to be held in the Vatican's vast treasure caves.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The menorah was the most important symbol of the Temple after the Ark of the Covenant. The image of the biblical menorah[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]is the symbol of the modern state of Israel.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Some Orthodox Jews believe the restoration of the menorah and other holy vessels to Jerusalem would be the first step in[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]rebuilding the Temple, whose site is now occupied by the Al Aqsa Mosque, a Muslim shrine.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]According to other press reports, the pontiff could proclaim an annual day dedicated to Judaism, in a fresh effort to further[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]reconcile Jews and Christians.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]In 1996, in the face of criticism and skepticism, Israeli Religious Affairs Minister Shimon Shetreet requested of the pope that[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]an official inquiry be conducted to determine if the legendary golden menorah from the Second Temple is hidden in the Vatican.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Shetreet claimed to have evidence the menorah was there, though he refused to disclose it. He did say he had statements of [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]people who claimed to have had discussions with previous popes, who indicated that the Catholic Church indeed did have[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]such objects.[/SIZE]

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[MarkRohfrietsch]

In the Eastern Orthodox icon of the crucifixion, Adam's skull is located under the cross.

Yes, as it is in our Lutheran Iconography as well.

Death of the old man? Christ defeating death and sin which came through Adam?

Yes, it does, but also in the ancient Jewish tradition, it was believed that Adam was buried in that location on Golgotha.

is there a picture of it? What does his skull symbolize?

Yes, here is one, and we have a copy of this one hanging in out Sacristy:

There are more; and as you will note the presence of Adam's skull is more common than not: https://www.google.ca/search?q=Cruc...QHuzYDADQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1680&bih=947&dpr=1

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by SharonL

In one of Paul's visions, doesn't he see the Ark in Heaven? I'll have to do some research, but seems I read that.
​

John did.
Revelations 11:19

Did you check out this post I made earlier?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7453786/#post64243267

Originally Posted by Optimax

It is not lost.

This is where it is.

Rev 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV

Actually it should be rendered "sanctuary", which was located inside the Temple

[FWIW, the greek word for "temple" is never used once in all of Revelation]

Reve 15:8 And is being replete the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him.
And no one was *able to be entering into the Sanctuary/naon <3485> until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven Messengers.


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[Melshezidek]

Agreed, and another thing that has it's own problems is if His blood was dripping down on the Ark from the crucifixion site, then so would the blood of who knows how many others the Romans killed on that site both before and after.

There'd be no possibility of blood from previous crucifixions dripping down the crack due to the fact that the crevice only came into existence after the earthquake upon Christ's death. That's when the ground would've cracked. It would be no issue for God to keep other blood from going in the area. Regular blood would not flow so greatly but because it was blood and water from His side it could have gone down. It's also possible no one else was crucified in that exact spot. I still think it's quite plausible.

 

[Melshezidek]

I find Jesus being a woman problematic. I believe Mary was miraculously caused to bear a son despite being unable to provide the necessary Y chromosome. That doesn't mean Christ was a genetic female presenting with male sex organs due to some miracle; it means God provided the Y. Ron Wyatt doesn't understand genetics.

Lol, this was good humour. Thanks for that. Even still, with God all things are possible.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Faulty

Agreed, and another thing that has it's own problems is if His blood was dripping down on the Ark from the crucifixion site, then so would the blood of who knows how many others the Romans killed on that site both before and after.
​

There'd be no possibility of blood from previous crucifixions dripping down the crack due to the fact that the crevice only came into existence after the earthquake upon Christ's death. That's when the ground would've cracked. It would be no issue for God to keep other blood from going in the area.
Regular blood would not flow so greatly but because it was blood and water from His side it could have gone down. It's also possible no one else was crucified in that exact spot. I still think it's quite plausible.

Reminds me of the ending of this great movie where the blood of Jesus ran down a hill during a rain and healed 2 women of leprosy

BEN HUR - A Cleansing Rain.mov - YouTube



.

 

[Epiphoskei]

There'd be no possibility of blood from previous crucifixions dripping down the crack due to the fact that the crevice only came into existence after the earthquake upon Christ's death. That's when the ground would've cracked. It would be no issue for God to keep other blood from going in the area. Regular blood would not flow so greatly but because it was blood and water from His side it could have gone down. It's also possible no one else was crucified in that exact spot. I still think it's quite plausible.

That still doesn't settle the genetic problem. To which of these three statements do you disagree?

1) All offspring born with genes taken only from the mother must be female.
2) Wyatt argues Christ was born with genes only from his mother.
3) Christ is not a female.

Taken together, these require that 4) Wyatt is making stuff up.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That still doesn't settle the genetic problem. To which of these three statements do you disagree?

1) All offspring born with genes taken only from the mother must be female.
2) Wyatt argues Christ was born with genes only from his mother.
3) Christ is not a female.

Taken together, these require that 4) Wyatt is making stuff up.

That appears to happen a lot on GT



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[HisSparkPlug]

In the Eastern Orthodox icon of the crucifixion, Adam's skull is located under the cross.

Do the Eastern Orthodox believe Adam's skull is literally located there?

 

[Epiphoskei]

Lol, this was good humour. Thanks for that. Even still, with God all things are possible.

The omnipotence of God means He can do anything, not that God can do things without doing them. Christ was miraculously conceived to be a man even though Mary didn't have the genes to bear a son by parthenogenesis. God can do that. What Wyatt is alleging, and you as well if you follow him, whether the two of you are aware you're doing it or not, is that God didn't do that. Therefore Christ is an X0 genotype female. God can and did make Christ a male. But God can't and didn't make Christ a male without making Christ a male. God may be omnipotent, but nonsense is still nonsense.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do the Eastern Orthodox believe Adam's skull is literally located there?

That would make for an interesting thread.
[I couldn't find one on CF]

http://www.christianforums.com/t2407150-2/#post20656317

Skull & Crossbones on a Crucifix

I know I am not a Catholic but in Orthodox tradition, the Crucifixion icons have a skull and crossbone because Golgotha where Jesus was crucified (which means place of the skull) was the supposed burial ground of Adam, so symbolically the first Human to sin was also the first Human to be cleansed by the Blood shed by Christ.

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[Faulty]

There'd be no possibility of blood from previous crucifixions dripping down the crack due to the fact that the crevice only came into existence after the earthquake upon Christ's death. That's when the ground would've cracked. It would be no issue for God to keep other blood from going in the area. Regular blood would not flow so greatly but because it was blood and water from His side it could have gone down. It's also possible no one else was crucified in that exact spot. I still think it's quite plausible.

What crack? There is nothing in the scripture to imply the area He died was cracked during the earthquake. Rather, His cross and those of the other two were still sitting right there in a position where they hung from them, and the Roman soldiers were still walking around that spot, piercing His side and breaking the legs of the others. There is nothing to suggest there was any crack, other than the need for one in the sprinkled Ark theory.

Is it really possible no one else was crucified there ever? Doubtful. They didn't pick a special place just for Him to be killed. Rather He had taken the place of the murderer Barabbas, and hung where he would have been hanging. There's no reason to assume this was a special spot picked out exclusively for that day, away from wherever they would normally do such things on any other day, then never to be used again.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What crack? There is nothing in the scripture to imply the area He died was cracked during the earthquake. Rather, His cross and those of the other two were still sitting right there in a position where they hung from them, and the Roman soldiers were still walking around that spot, piercing His side and breaking the legs of the others.

There is nothing to suggest there was any crack, other than the need for one in the sprinkled Ark theory...............

.

Is that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38?


Ezekiel 38:19 "And in My jealously, in fire of rage of Me I speak, if not in that day, shall become a great earthquake on ground of Israel"
[Revelation 16:18]

Matt 21:10 And of entering Him into Jerusalem, is moved/shaken/eseisqh <4579> (5681) all the city saying `Who-any is this'?

Reve 16:18 and became lightnings and thunders and voices/sounds and a great earthquake/seismoV <4578> became, such-as not became since the men became upon the land,
such proportion an earthquake/seismoV <4578>, thus great.
[Haggai 2:6/Ezekiel 38:19]



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[HisSparkPlug]

Matthew 27:45,51-53 - Then from midday until three o'clock (when Jesus died) darkness spread over the whole countryside .... And the sanctuary curtain in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The ground shook, rocks split and graves were opened.
Seems to me there are a number of references to rocks splitting after Jesus' death

 

[Faulty]

Matthew 27:45,51-53 - Then from midday until three o'clock (when Jesus died) darkness spread over the whole countryside .... And the sanctuary curtain in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The ground shook, rocks split and graves were opened.
Seems to me there are a number of references to rocks splitting after Jesus' death

Indeed there are, and even the graves opening was quite an upheaval I'm sure, but the three crosses were still standing at the end of the quake, and there were still people gathered around them. As a result, there is no reason to think that particular area of the ground was directly damaged.

 

[Frenchfrye]

Do you believe the Ark of the Covenant will ever be found?

the jews hid it at the fall of jerusalem, so its still out there with the manna and stuff in it. we just need to keep looking