Will someone please pass this on to the NFL.

[iluvatar5150]

Let's bring all the numbers to the table, and see what we've got.

Do you know what percentage of the population is made up by blacks? Do you know why that's important to your argument?

 

[essentialsaltes]

All such articles cherry-pick their facts to make their point, but that doesn't debunk those facts.

1.9 times is "almost twice" (unless my math is off).

It's not that the calculation is wrong. The problem is that it is not a meaningful calculation.

According to 2013 USDA data, of the 23 million heads of households receiving food stamps (SNAP)

9.2 million were white
5.9 million were black

So white people are more than 1.5 times as likely to be, in your words, perpetrating "one of the biggest scams around". Go be angry at white people for a while.

I recommend (for anyone, really) reading John Allen Paulos' A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper.

"With the same user-friendly, quirky, and perceptive approach that made "Innumeracy" a bestseller, John Allen Paulos travels though the pages of the daily newspaper showing how math and numbers are a key element in many of the articles we read every day. From the Senate, SATs, and sex, to crime, celebrities, and cults, he takes stories that may not seem to involve mathematics at all and demonstrates how a lack of mathematical knowledge can hinder our understanding of them."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's not that the calculation is wrong. The problem is that it is not a meaningful calculation.

I'm in general agreement with that.

According to 2013 USDA data, of the 23 million heads of households receiving food stamps (SNAP)

9.2 million were white
5.9 million were black

So white people are more than 1.5 times as likely to be, in your words, perpetrating "one of the biggest scams around". Go be angry at white people for a while.

I didn't cite different ethnic participation in SNAP.

I recommend (for anyone, really) reading John Allen Paulos' A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper.

"With the same user-friendly, quirky, and perceptive approach that made "Innumeracy" a bestseller, John Allen Paulos travels though the pages of the daily newspaper showing how math and numbers are a key element in many of the articles we read every day. From the Senate, SATs, and sex, to crime, celebrities, and cults, he takes stories that may not seem to involve mathematics at all and demonstrates how a lack of mathematical knowledge can hinder our understanding of them."

Just good reading comprehension can reveal lots of rats in the media's artfully crafted woodpile.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This deserves a thread of it's own but it is relevant here as well.

https://www.amren.com/about/

 

[381465]

It's not that the calculation is wrong. The problem is that it is not a meaningful calculation.

According to 2013 USDA data, of the 23 million heads of households receiving food stamps (SNAP)

9.2 million were white
5.9 million were black

So white people are more than 1.5 times as likely to be, in your words, perpetrating "one of the biggest scams around". Go be angry at white people for a while.

I recommend (for anyone, really) reading John Allen Paulos' A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper.

"With the same user-friendly, quirky, and perceptive approach that made "Innumeracy" a bestseller, John Allen Paulos travels though the pages of the daily newspaper showing how math and numbers are a key element in many of the articles we read every day. From the Senate, SATs, and sex, to crime, celebrities, and cults, he takes stories that may not seem to involve mathematics at all and demonstrates how a lack of mathematical knowledge can hinder our understanding of them."

Re the SNAP thread...
I guess his anger against blacks and racism was too heavily veiled for an idiot like me to see.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Re the SNAP thread...
I guess his anger against blacks and racism was too heavily veiled for an idiot like me to see.

No, that's in this thread (and others). I'm trying to see if he can realize why his calculation is wrong by using the exact same math to come up with a result that goes against his cognitive bias instead of agreeing with it. We are always better at catching errors when they go against our biases than when the error tells us something we approve of. And understanding that bias is an important part of being able to guard against it in your own thinking and become better able to know the truth of the matter.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I didn't cite different ethnic participation in SNAP.

You cited different ethnic participation in dying at the hands of police. You agreed with infowars' erroneous interpretation of the facts. I'm trying to show you why it is erroneous.

 

[trunks2k]

All such articles cherry-pick their facts to make their point, but that doesn't debunk those facts.

1.9 times is "almost twice" (unless my math is off).

No, you have it wrong.

It's not that a white person is twice as likely to be shot as a black person. It's that a person who is shot is twice as likely to be white than a black person. There's a significant difference between the two statements. Given that white people have a significantly higher population than black people in the US, we would expect there to be a higher number of whites shot by police than black people. So yes, any individual police shooting is going to be more likely to involve a white person than a black person.

What you need to look at is the chances of an individual black or white person getting shot by police. In that case, you see the opposite. An individual black person is more likely to be involved in a police shooting than an individual white person.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, you have it wrong.

It's not that a white person is twice as likely to be shot as a black person. It's that a person who is shot is twice as likely to be white than a black person. There's a significant difference between the two statements. Given that white people have a significantly higher population than black people in the US, we would expect there to be a higher number of whites shot by police than black people. So yes, any individual police shooting is going to be more likely to involve a white person than a black person.

What you need to look at is the chances of an individual black or white person getting shot by police. In that case, you see the opposite. An individual black person is more likely to be involved in a police shooting than an individual white person.

I see what your saying now.

How would you parse black on white crime, especially rape?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, that's in this thread (and others). I'm trying to see if he can realize why his calculation is wrong by using the exact same math to come up with a result that goes against his cognitive bias instead of agreeing with it. We are always better at catching errors when they go against our biases than when the error tells us something we approve of. And understanding that bias is an important part of being able to guard against it in your own thinking and become better able to know the truth of the matter.

So what is the "truth of the matter"?

 

[essentialsaltes]

So what is the "truth of the matter"?

Iluvatar, trunks2k, and I have been trying to help you find the truth for yourself. Start with iluvatar's questions at the top of this page.

 

[rambot]

I'm not. I'm citing black violence as it reflects on the whole black community.

So you have an INCREDIBLY violent, small minority of a population suddenly being a representation of the WHOLE community?

That's not a rational comparison.

That's like saying redheads are representative of all caucasian hair colours.

 

[Audacious]

I'm not. I'm citing black violence as it reflects on the whole black community.

What do you think the government should do about white people? I mean, the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church both reflect the white community as a whole.

Should we stop giving them food stamps? Perhaps convince them that if they agree to stop wearing those weird ghost costumes with the pointy hats, we'll give them back?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Iluvatar, trunks2k, and I have been trying to help you find the truth for yourself. Start with iluvatar's questions at the top of this page.

I asked for your opinion, not help with mine.

What do you think of this?
The Problem With Race Wars Among Minorities

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So you have an INCREDIBLY violent, small minority of a population suddenly being a representation of the WHOLE community?

Sometimes the tail wags the dog. Black violent crime gives whites an ongoing excuse to recoil from the entire black community.

The biggest single problem within the discussion is the denial that racism is a natural social dynamic that will never be eradicated. Integration and assimilation have failed. The only solution is to find ways to co-exist peacefully. This will require the minority to adopt the values of the majority. There is no other way.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What do you think the government should do about white people? I mean, the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church both reflect the white community as a whole.

Is that the opinion of the black community?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you know what percentage of the population is made up by blacks? Do you know why that's important to your argument?

In my city blacks are only 6 percent of the population but 45 percent of the crimes committed here are by blacks*. It is so bad that some in city hall call it a "black crime wave". Of course our liberal media is reluctant to reveal the race of suspects even after they have been charged (we can pretty much figure it out by which neighborhoods the crimes occur and by the names of the suspects).

And yes, this is important to my argument.

* They don't all live here but come in from nearby Milwaukee and Chicago.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I asked for your opinion, not help with mine.

Sorry, no. You asked for the truth. The truth is independent of opinion.

You can find it if you go about the process with an honest and unbiased mind. If I just give it to you, you'll just reject it. Go back and answer Iluvatar's questions. You'll find it for yourself.

 

[essentialsaltes]

.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry, no. You asked for the truth. The truth is independent of opinion.

You can find it if you go about the process with an honest and unbiased mind. If I just give it to you, you'll just reject it. Go back and answer Iluvatar's questions. You'll find it for yourself.

I answered his question in my last post (all politics is local).

I can't approach the issue with an unbiased mind. No honest person can. You are biased against my positions.

Truth is elusive, and in this discussion very subjective, so we have to depend on facts and statistics. What we end up with is observations and opinions.