Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

[Saucy]

That verse sums it up nicely.

I agree!

I think both options in the poll are correct. We meet Jesus in the clouds at the rapture, then after the tribulation, we come back down to earth as warriors for the final battle. I will probably be in the form of a Ninja Turtle destroying the Foot!

 

[brinny]

I agree!

I think both options in the poll are correct. We meet Jesus in the clouds at the rapture, then after the tribulation, we come back down to earth as warriors for the final battle. I will probably be in the form of a Ninja Turtle destroying the Foot!

LOL! Amen!

 

[Lysimachus]

Tyndale,

The way Adventist eschatology reconciles the apparent two descriptions of Christ's coming (in the air vs. on the earth) I would consider as a view worthy of your investigation.

At the Second Coming, Christ will not touch the earth, but he will be in the air according to 1 Thess 4:13-18. John 14:2,3 puts the mansions where the Father dwells, and that Christ will come again and "receive" us unto Himself to go where He "went".

From this point forward commences the 1000 year reign with Christ in heaven, while the earth is left void and desolate save Satan and his wicked angels. All the wicked are slain by the brightness of His Second Coming, so these wicked dead, who are the "rest of the dead" according to Revelation 20:5, will "live not again until the thousand years are finished.

At the end of the 1000 years, there is a Third Coming. But not for salvation. The wicked have already been judged, and their last chance was prior to the Second Coming. At the end of the 1000 years, Christ, the Saints, and the New Jerusalem will descend to the earth, and Christ will put his feet on the Mount of Olives creating a huge plain for the New Jerusalem to rest.

Then, all the wicked that were dead during the 1000 years will resurrect in the second resurrection, or, "resurrection of damnation". While all the saints will be safe inside the New Jerusalem. Now Satan goes to deceive all the resurrected nations, and convinces them to surround and attack the Beloved City, which is the same as the New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven.

Remember, Revelation is NOT written in perfect chronological order, but rather a chiasm. John is notorious for making a statement, backing up, repeating, adding more detail, and he does this over and over again by elaborating upon a point from different angles and different perspectives. When he mentions the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven in Revelation 21, for example, he's backing up again to describe that city coming down...but in Revelation 20, that Beloved City represents that same Holy City that already came down out of heaven. Revelation 3:12 mentions that New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven too, and if you read Revelation 20 and 21 in perfect chronological order, one might conclude that there are 3-4 lakes of fires! But there is only one. John is just repeating additional elements by filling in all the pieces to the same event.

It's like a massive jigsaw puzzle, but with God's help, it can all be put together beautifully!

 

[Lysimachus]

The place he is preparing is the redeemed, renewed, healed, creation. The New Heavens and New Earth.


The meeting in the air isn't literal - it's part of the metaphor (or, rather, two mixed metaphors). As of course separating sheep from goats is also a metaphor.

Ebia, the meeting of the Lord in the air is very much as literal as they come. 1 Thess 4:13-18 is not a parable, or a symbolic picture. Paul is describing a literal event. No symbols are used, and no parable is being told. Paul is writing to the Thessalonians who are hard of understanding. Do you think that Paul would risk using parabolic language on them as difficult as the Thessalonians were? Of course not. He was talking the same language of Jesus in Mark 13:

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." (Mark 13:27)

Now how about we analyze the Greek:

Understanding the Greek of Mark 13:27:
"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from [Gr: Ek, 'out of'] the four winds, from [Gr: Apo, 'away from'] the uttermost part of the earth to [Gr: Heos, 'until' 'as far as 'up to'] the uttermost part of heaven." (Mark 13:27 (same as account as Matthew 24:31, but with more details)

Mark's account along with the Greek CLEARLY implies that the Lord will gather his people out of the atmosphere after he has brought his people away from the earth up to or as far as the sky. These scriptures are not, in the remotest way, illustrating the return of Church saints with Christ at His glorious appearing. The word "Heos" (to) represents "going up" or "as far as" (See Luke 10:15, John 2:7; 2Cor 12:2; Heb 8:11).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Saucy I agree!

I think both options in the poll are correct. We meet Jesus in the clouds at the rapture, then after the tribulation, we come back down to earth as warriors for the final battle. I will probably be in the form of a Ninja Turtle destroying the Foot!

That would suit you ehehe

LOL! Amen!

I am coming back in the form of Ironman, so I can sharpen some iron around these parts

Daniel 2:35 then broken small together have been the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, and they have been as chaff from the summer threshing-floor, and carried them away hath the wind and no place hath been found for them and the stone that smote the image hath become a great mountain, and hath filled all the land.
[Revelation 18:12]

Reve 18:12 cargo/replete of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of pearl/*s and of cambric and of purple and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron/sidhrou <4604> and of marble,
[Daniel 2:35,45]

 

[Lysimachus]

And then what happens? We go back to Earth? This concept, with all do respect, makes no sense, and was thought up centuries ago by someone who the church rejected as a false teaching. The 1000 years is not literal. Most of Revelations is no literal, and their numbers are not literal, but mostly symbolic. As far as the question, well, here's what it says in Matthew that I read a few weeks back that explains plain as day that whomever (Christians) is alive when the antichrist comes, will go through that tribulation (as we have been going through the end times since Christ's Resurrectiona and Ascension into heaven), and that for the sake of His elect, he will return before all perish:

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answerd and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6 Andyou will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will nate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come.

15 Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him whoo is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of th world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to decive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they wil see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heave to the other."



Reading this, it's plain as day that Christians will be on Earth through the Great Tribulation until Christ's return. Notice the key parts in the verses about His returning for the sake of His elect (lest all would perish), and the fact that it says "immediately after the tribulation of those days....." It doesn't say Christ comes before this to gather His remaining faithful.

Dorothy, you really need to take out time to study the eschatology of different faiths before you go on ranting and trying to prove a point which your recipient already believes.

Sometime, take out time to study SDA eschatology. It is somewhat unique, especially regarding the millennium.

Whether the 1000 years is literal, or not, it's still a time frame between the Second Advent when we're taken all to heaven and the Third Advent at the end of the 1000 years when we come back with Christ. So whether the 1000 years is 100,000 years, it matters not, as it does not affect the eschatological flow one iota.

We believe we will be on the earth during the tribulation. But the millennium does not begin until AFTER the tribulation. We are "caught up" in the clouds and taken to heaven for 1000 years AT the Second Coming, AFTER the tribulation.

So most of what you said above we are already in harmony with. We know this! But the 1000 years is CLEARLY placed AFTER the destruction of Babylon in Revelation 19--which is the Second Coming.

We believe the earth will be 100% void and desolate during the millennium. It will be uninhabited by any humans, except Satan and his demons.

This earth is termed the "bottomless pit", or "abussos" in Revelation, due to its destroyed, chaotic, endless promordial destructive environment. This destruction and depopulation of the planet is due to the 7 last plagues and the brightness of Christ's Second Coming which will destroy all the wicked, while the saints will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It is not until the END of the 1000 years that Christ and all the saints return to the earth in the New Jerusalem, and Christ puts his feet on the Mount of Olives at this post-millennial event. This is when all the wicked that died prior to the millennium are raised to life, and now Satan goes out to deceive these resurrected nations, and convinces them to surround the New Jerusalem, that Beloved City.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dorothy, you really need to take out time to study the eschatology of different faiths before you go on ranting and trying to prove a point which your recipient already believes.

Sometime, take out time to study SDA eschatology. It is somewhat unique, especially regarding the millennium..

Why would anyone [espeically non-SDAs]want to waste time studying SDA eschatology?

 

[Lysimachus]

Why would anyone [espeically non-SDAs]want to waste time studying SDA eschatology?

Too childish of a statement even worth commenting on.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Too childish of a statement even worth commenting on.

 

[Sieben]

I didn't vote. Because my answer is both in the air and he will reign on the earth.

 

[Hentenza]

I agree!

I think both options in the poll are correct. We meet Jesus in the clouds at the rapture, then after the tribulation, we come back down to earth as warriors for the final battle. I will probably be in the form of a Ninja Turtle destroying the Foot!

ROLF! With my luck I'd probably come back as Sensei Kenoi Watanabi. I'b be wise but I don't want to be a guinea pig.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I didn't vote. Because my answer is both in the air and he will reign on the earth.

Didn't Jesus imply that He was both in heaven and on earth at the same time in John 3?

Young) John 3:13 and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except He who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The thread is dead, long live the thread!

It is immortal, so it can't die!

May it live even longer and prosper more greatly





..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Saucy

I agree!

I think both options in the poll are correct. We meet Jesus in the clouds at the rapture, then after the tribulation, we come back down to earth as warriors for the final battle. I will probably be in the form of a Ninja Turtle destroying the Foot!
​

Btw, what's the "Foot"

ROLF! With my luck I'd probably come back as Sensei Kenoi Watanabi.
I'b be wise but I don't want to be a guinea pig.

Why not?



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[HisSparkPlug]

Will his feet actually touch the ground in the second coming?

Yes.

1 Thess 1:17 states we will be caught up to meet him in the air, Rev 21 seems to support this idea by describing the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven and the bride of Christ (church) is within, and this is after the old heaven and earth had passed away, also backed up in Matt 24:35.

This is regarding the translation of the saints

Has anyone read this vision? When I read it I receive such a witness in my spirit of it's truth: Tommy Hicks endtime prophecy

 

[Going Merry]

We will be caught up in the air at the first resurrection. Then when the great tribulation is over 3 1/2 years later He will reign on the Earth for a 1000 years and all the kingdoms of the earth will flow into it. So both

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We will be caught up in the air at the first resurrection. Then when the great tribulation is over 3 1/2 years later He will reign on the Earth for a 1000 years and all the kingdoms of the earth will flow into it. So both

Sounds good to me........



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[Optimax]

Both.

Jesus meets those born again ones who are on the planet at the time of the event in the air.

Approximately seven years later He sets foot on the planet.

 

[Tangible]

I believe Jesus will return again in glory to judge both the living and the dead, and whose kingdom shall have no end.

There is only one last day, and afterwards, eternity.

 

[SG9]

Will his feet actually touch the ground in the second coming?

1 Thess 1:17 states we will be caught up to meet him in the air, Rev 21 seems to support this idea by describing the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven and the bride of Christ (church) is within, and this is after the old heaven and earth had passed away, also backed up in Matt 24:35.

However there are some who suggest Jesus will physically return to Earth. They support this by quoting Zechariah 14:4 which says, "in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives," and Revelation 11:15 which says, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'"

Does Zechariah 14 and Rev 11 describe the second coming?

We might look at it as Him being here just as sure as we will be, while He will be in Spirit and in Truth in the flesh of believers. Scriptures tell us to let the mind of Christ be in us, it says that if Christ be in us we be in Him, and etc.

I sense that the scriptures rely more on allegories then in the literal sense concerning this. The prophecies, not at hand right now, I recall telling of a Davidic figure who will act as the temple of God that was made without hands. I lean more on the idea of perhaps one man as the appointed King who will be king of the remnant and after the apocalypse comes. I suppose that will be the millennium period when Christ reigns here on earth. So, yes, He must obviously come if it is written that He will reign on earth and rule over every nation. Thanks