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Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

Will Jesus physically return to Earth in the second coming?

  • No, he'll meet us in the air

  • Yes, he will physically reign on Earth

  • Don't know


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LittleLambofJesus

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Is all apocalyptic literature non literal?
Lots of that in the OT

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

*snip*

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That’s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation. That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!
 
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Tangible

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Please note that I said that apocalyptic literature communicates literal truth by non-literal means. Apocalyptic literature describes spiritual realities that are hidden from us at present, that we are now incapable of understanding, and does so in terms that we can relate to.

Even those who take a literal view recognize that, as evidenced by the fact that those who subscribe to millennial eschatology are always putting forward new theories about what certain passages 'really mean' or 'refer to'.

For example, this morning my 2 1/2 yr old son asked me why the balloon he got yesterday would no longer "go up in the sky."

Now, the true answer is that overnight much of the helium atoms that offset the weight of the balloon by the low density of the helium gas mixture inside the balloon and gave the balloon its buoyancy slipped through the spaces in the synthetic rubber molecules of the balloon causing the density of the gases remaining inside the balloon to roughly equilibrate with the density of the air outside the balloon thus reducing the buoyancy effect and causing the balloon to "not go up in the sky" any more.

Now, my 2 1/2 year old son doesn't know beans about helium atoms or the porous property of synthetic rubber or the density of gasses, so I had to come up with a way to explain the situation to him in terms that he could grasp, using words that he understood.

I though about it for a second, and then I simply told him that the balloon was tired.

While it is not literally true that a balloon (being an inanimate object) could experience fatigue in the same way as an animal or a person might, the picture created in my son's mind by the word 'tired' effectively communicated to him that because of some reason linked to the passage of time, the balloon was now unable to "go up in the sky".

Non-literal words communicating literal truth.
 
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Hentenza

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But that does not answer my question. Is all apocalytic literature non literal?
 
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Tangible

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But that does not answer my question. Is all apocalytic literature non literal?
All is a big word, like never.

Is all apocalyptic literature literal?

Just as we are insufficient to comprehend all of the spiritual truths communicated by apocalyptic scriptures, it has not yet been revealed to us precisely which if any of the words used to describe those spiritual truths may or may not be employed in a literal sense.

The fact that with near uniformity many of the images used in apocalyptic literature are seen by biblical scholars of all Christian traditions to be non-literal (women of both virtue and immorality, dragons, other fantastic animals, etc.) opens the door for interpretation.

Using scripture to interpret scripture, it appears to me that the millennial kingdom referred to in the posts above is one of the non-literal portions, one thousand years being symbolic of an eternity that our minds can apprehend, but not fully comprehend.
 
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Hentenza

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But you are using the determinant "all" when you don't qualify your statement that apocalypic literature IS non literal. For example, just because biblical text is written in Revelation does not automatically make it non literal. Do you disagree?
 
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Tangible

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Hentenza, it feels like you are trying to hold me to a standard of clarity that is hardly practical. Everyone* makes general, unqualified statements all the time* in normal conversation and informal writings.

You're also apparently trying to use a rhetorical device to cast doubt on my statement by attempting to force me into a position of defending an indefensible position.

I'm obviously not saying that anything written in Revelation or any other apocalyptic portion of scripture is by definition non-literal. No more than you believe that every apocalyptic portion of scripture is by definition literal.

*unqualified statements
 
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Hentenza

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LOL!!! I'm really not trying to pin you down but am simply curious. There are many that interpret scripture outside of a historical-grammatical hermeneutic and use assorted reasons why they do.

For example and without using commentaries (since we can find many representing both positions) tell me why Revelation 20 can not be taken literally.
 
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Tangible

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LOL!!! I'm really not trying to pin you down but am simply curious.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
There are many that interpret scripture outside of a historical-grammatical hermeneutic and use assorted reasons why they do.
The position I'm putting forward is very firmly within the historical-grammatical hermeneutic.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Charis kai Dunamis

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I don't really understand the poll.

poll said:
Will Jesus physically return to Earth in the second coming?

-No, he'll meet us in the air
-Yes, he will physically reign on Earth
-Don't know

I believe He will meet us in the air, and that He will also physically reign on earth. Why does believing that He will meet us in the air automatically negate that He will also reign on the earth, as the poll is worded? This doesn't make sense... Scripture teaches both.
 
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Stryder06

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That's why I couldn't vote. I believe Christ will meet us in the air, take us to heaven, then 1k years later, touch down on the earth. He's gonna give Satan a long time out.
 
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Charis kai Dunamis

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That's why I couldn't vote. I believe Christ will meet us in the air, take us to heaven, then 1k years later, touch down on the earth. He's gonna give Satan a long time out.

Well I'm premil/pretrib so we're kinda on opposite sides of the spectrum. But at least we can agree this poll is faulty.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Tangible

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/lobs this into the discussion

There is a common disagreement between millennial and amillennial eschatologists as to the meaning of the word απαντησισ - apantesis in 1 Thess 4:17.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (Greek Study Bible)
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῷ ἐσόμεθα.

Apantesis can be translated simply as 'to meet' which gives no clues regarding the question of the Rapture, or it can be translated with a more precise indication of 'go out (from the destination) to meet and accompany someone to their destination.'

Apantesis is Greek, and is usually translated as "meeting" or "official greeting". Power and Sedgwick, The New Sydenham Society's Lexicon of Medicine and The Allied Sciences (1881) (Source)


Grover Gunn, Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (PCA), Jackson, Tennessee. (My highlighting)
New Testament scholar and historian Ben Witherington, quoted here.
 
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