Will Hitler Get Justice or Annihilation?

[mmksparbud]

Although tragic, the answer is not complicated. Those who reject Christ have no other means for their sins to be forgiven.

Yes--poor Jews, at least with Hitler their suffering came to an end, with God, according to you, it will continue forever.

 

[Daryl Gleason]

I've little time for the forums these days, sadly, but this topic prompted me to reply.

When I see topics like this, my first thought -- and also challenge -- for those concerned with things such as this is taken from John 21:22 and paraphrased as follows:

"If it is my will that Hitler gets justice (or annihilation), what is that to you? Follow me!"

If more people spent time simply loving their neighbors as themselves and less time worrying about vanities such as this, the world would be a better place, no?

In Christ,
Daryl

 

[CrystalDragon]

sorry, not up to speed on such punishments. I don't think there is a punishment which fits such crimes of leaders like this. I'm tired of seeing documentaries on Hitler. He doesn't deserve so much attention. The greatest punishment might be to forget him altogether. hard for victims though.

I feel like nothing justifies infinite punishment (if every second of it is torture) but yeah.

True I am not denying that we are not sinners capable of atrocious evil on our own or with the Satan's and his minions influences. But I do think evil originated in the fallen Angel who misguided 1/3 of the Heavenly host to rebel and is ruling Earth currently. She believes humans are evil and the 'force' is neutral and it is what we do with it.

I'm a bit puzzled there, wasn't the 1/3 of the angels aspect only in Revelation which is said to be a vision that alludes to the future?

Is that justice or revenge? fine line

It's better than that going on indefinitely, so I say it's more justice.

 

[ddyer]

This is not the thread you're looking for.

Why would say that?

 

[ddyer]

Why would say that?

Why would "you" say that?

 

[geiroffenberg]

A glaring problem with Annihilation is that all unsaved people receive the same "punishment".

Not a glaring problem, because anyone can quote a judgement verse and denounce annihilation.
But then again any annihilationist can quote other judgement verses and denounce a personal punishment:

"Joh 8:15 I judge no man." and "Joh_8:15 Joh 5:22 the Father judges no man".

So the only conclusion is that both sides are wrong!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A glaring problem with Annihilation is that all unsaved people receive the same "punishment".

How do those who promote the idea of annihilation answer to its injustice?

Eternal Torment is not justice it is overkill. It would be like a dictator torturing your family for the rest of their lives in the most horrible way imaginable all because they lied to the police. Justice is when a crime is fairly punished. For not all Annihilationists believe that the soul will be instantly destroyed in the Lake of Fire. Some believe God will punish them in the Lake of Fire for a set amount of time in proportion to their sins before they are annihiated. Seeing, God's Word does not speak on such a thing, I am not going to add something to the Word of God that is not there. But... what I do know is that the Scriptures clearly teach Eternal Torment is unbiblical. Oh, and yes; I used to believe in Eternal Torment at one time. In fact, I even remember trying to defend it. But it was an empty and hollow defense.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe the reason why most hold to ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is because they do not understand that the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean "forever" in the Bible.

Take Revelation 14:11 KJV as an example.
Should the English words "for ever" (or "forever") be read literally meaning an endless state?

Well, I heard a pastor once say that the best way to interpret the Bible is to let the Bible do the interpreting for you. What I am I talking about? Well, the Bible tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 KJV which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Yet is the city of Edom burning today? No, of course not. So we then realize that this phrase is speaking metaphorically.

In other words,, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can be talking about "forever" here on this Earth (as long as someone lives) or in having a sense of "completeness" or "totality" for a specific thing). For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?

• In Genesis 13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.

• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Exodus 12:24; Exodus 27:21; Exodus 28:43).

• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 1:7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezekiel 16:53-55).

• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jeremiah 30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).

• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Micah 1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ezekiel 16:53).

• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zephaniah 2:9, Jeremiah 25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jeremiah 49:6).

• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3):

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Habakkuk 3:6).

• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.

• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Hebrews 4:8-9).

• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians 3:11-13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).

• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6-10; Jonah 1:17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jeremiah 25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ezekiel 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jeremiah 49:39).

• "Moab is destroyed" (Jeremiah 48:4, Jeremiah 48:42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jeremiah 48:47).

• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).

• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.

• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 1:15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”​

Here is the source link for list above for the Scriptural examples used on the word "forever":
http://www.apttoteach.org/attjom/index.php

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We see the word "forever" clearly used in a temporal sense in Philemon 1:15. For it says,

"For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;"
(Philemon 1:15 KJV).​

This is talking about Onesimus. Here is what it says in the New Living Translation,

15 "It seems you lost Onesimus for a little while so that you could have him back forever.
16 He is no longer like a slave to you. He is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord."
(Philemon 1:15-16 NLT).​

In other words, Onesimus did not return to his master for all eternity here upon this Earth. Onesimus is not still alive. He is not an immortal or anything of that nature. He was mortal and he died. So to assume that the word "forever" and it's related words always means forever does not work. Meaning, one has to re-examine what they believe the word "forever" means in relation to the Greek word "Gehenna", i.e. the Lake of Fire (Which is translated in the English as "hell").


...

 

[Beloved Pure]

Seeing long cold walls of Sceipture like that is not very helpful, encouraging or likely to win people to aligning to the viewpoint. Especially as none of the passages were explained in context they were isolated, out of order and made to 'fit' a viewpoint. Just because Scripture is quoted does not mean it is true or that it brings glory to God especially if it is presented in a rushed unloving manner.

Anyone can take ten isolated paragraphs from ten books loosly based on a topic and present them as a basis for a valid argument. It does not make it right. I do not think that is the way to treat God or His library.

I am young in my faith not yet equipped to debate and defend it and it does not show the brilliance of God being faced with cold walls of Scripture and being told I do not understand how is that encouraging? I want to understand that is why I believe. I looked up every passage you quoted. I read the verses surrounding it and pointed out some clearly fid not relate. I am working with what I have and try not to presume I am better than other believers because of our different levels of light.

God has revealed some light to me and based on that my faith is where I am supposed to be and the convictions I hold are fine for me until other revelations challenge me that is the only thing you said I can agree on. I am sorry I am not where you are right now.

God bless.

LOL!!! I see! In other words--you truly do not understand the words!!! OK--The only thing that will change your mind is when God says otherwise. For, it would take God to tell me otherwise ,also. We'll just have to wait and find out at the time.


Absolutely, and if He decides that eternal torment is not just--then it isn't.
That a sinner will not be annihilated at all (body or soul) goes right back to the original lie of Satan
God said
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

And it still is believed
(In the original Hebrew the word for day is yom--and that means evening and morning. The word for day in Gem 2:17 is beyom--and that means an age, unspecified time.)

 

[1W7]

I am going to give an example of what I think a belief in annihilation can lead to.

If there is no eternal punishment in the lake of fire…that is…no eternal conscious punishment, then I really do not have anything to worry about do I? I mean, I do not have to worry about if I am really saved. I mean, sure, it would be nice to get to live eternally on the new earth with no tears, no pain, etc. However, if I do not have it right, and do not make it, the worst I have to ultimately worry about is non-existence. So even if I am consciously tormented for hundreds, thousands, millions, billions, etc.…of years, eventually it will end, and since I will have been annihilated and will no longer exist, I will be unaware of the pain I experienced and will not exist to know what I missed out on.

If, however, this is not the case, and if those that do not go to be with Jesus ultimately instead go to the Lake of Fire and are consciously tormented without end, then this is horrifying. I think that any punishment/pain is bearable in a sense if you know it will one day end. But unimaginable pain without end is extremely terrifying.

Something I do not understand is why would I want the teaching of the Bible to be that unending torment in the Lake of Fire is the correct interpretation of the fate of the lost? If I am completely honest with myself, I think if I knew that the correct interpretation was that the Bible taught that the ultimate fate of the lost was non-existence, then I would feel comfort. Then I would know that if I am not correct in my understanding of what is required to be saved and to be with Jesus eternally, then I would know that the worst for me would then just be annihilation / non-existence, which in a way is comforting. After all, no matter what kind of pain I would have to endure before being annihilated and no matter for how long, once I am annihilated, I will be completely unaware of it or of anything else. Since I will no longer exist, I will not be able to miss anything, be sad, feel pain, etc.

However, I do not believe that this is what the Bible teaches. The plain, straightforward teaching of God’s Word on the fate of the lost to me appears to be that they will suffer without end in the Lake of Fire. Jesus gave some very strong warnings against going there (if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out…). If after living a life of sin apart from God the worst is that I will cease to be, then I do not understand the need for such dire warnings. I think the emphasis would then be more on what you would miss out on…eternal happiness with God, no pain, no sorrow, no sadness, streets of gold, unimaginable glorious sites, fellowship with all of the other saved, etc. However, Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. Now granted, if the annihilation view is correct and if the lost will first experience punishment in the form of unimaginable torment for a very long time (perhaps millions or billions of years) before being annihilated, then that will be horrifying for them. However, I still feel that it pales in comparison to if the torment were unending. If while being in horrendous torment, you knew that the torment would eventually end and you would then have no memory of it (or thoughts of any kind for that matter), then I would imagine you could find some comfort in that knowledge. However, if while in torment you knew it would never end, the hopelessness you would feel would be unimaginable.

I believe that the plain / straightforward understanding of this is that the Bible teaches eternal conscious suffering in the Lake of Fire. In general, I think that a person would first have to want to see if the teaching on this could be understood to be that of annihilation before one can start to really see it that way. I think one then has to work to try to make the view of annihilation fit with the Bible, whereas the view of conscious eternal suffering naturally comes out.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A glaring problem with Annihilation is that all unsaved people receive the same "punishment".

How do those who promote the idea of annihilation answer to its injustice?

They're dead, Jim! Jim, he's dead!

So, why is this a glaring problem for Annihilation? The unsaved get exactly what was warned about...no eternal life, but eternal destruction instead.

I see no problem here.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am going to give an example of what I think a belief in annihilation can lead to.

If there is no eternal punishment in the lake of fire…that is…no eternal conscious punishment, then I really do not have anything to worry about do I? I mean, I do not have to worry about if I am really saved. I mean, sure, it would be nice to get to live eternally on the new earth with no tears, no pain, etc. However, if I do not have it right, and do not make it, the worst I have to ultimately worry about is non-existence. So even if I am consciously tormented for hundreds, thousands, millions, billions, etc.…of years, eventually it will end, and since I will have been annihilated and will no longer exist, I will be unaware of the pain I experienced and will not exist to know what I missed out on.

This is silly. The whole point of "worry" as it might related to the notion of Annihilation will depend on each person, to the level of "risk aversion" that he or she has. Some people are indeed fools and blithely go around saying, "I'm not worried, I'm not worried, I'm not worried!!" And the reason they don't have sensitivity is because they've got a cognitive problem and the fact of death isn't on their emotive radar. They probably are socio-paths on top it, with accompanying dullness and apathy to other aspects of existence and social life as well.

As for myself, part of the reason I even bothered to check out the Bible when I was a teenager was because I experienced an onset of fear about death and non-existence, to which I found a welcome remedy in the person of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

If, however, this is not the case, and if those that do not go to be with Jesus ultimately instead go to the Lake of Fire and are consciously tormented without end, then this is horrifying. I think that any punishment/pain is bearable in a sense if you know it will one day end. But unimaginable pain without end is extremely terrifying.

Something I do not understand is why would I want the teaching of the Bible to be that unending torment in the Lake of Fire is the correct interpretation of the fate of the lost? If I am completely honest with myself, I think if I knew that the correct interpretation was that the Bible taught that the ultimate fate of the lost was non-existence, then I would feel comfort. Then I would know that if I am not correct in my understanding of what is required to be saved and to be with Jesus eternally, then I would know that the worst for me would then just be annihilation / non-existence, which in a way is comforting. After all, no matter what kind of pain I would have to endure before being annihilated and no matter for how long, once I am annihilated, I will be completely unaware of it or of anything else. Since I will no longer exist, I will not be able to miss anything, be sad, feel pain, etc.

However, I do not believe that this is what the Bible teaches. The plain, straightforward teaching of God’s Word on the fate of the lost to me appears to be that they will suffer without end in the Lake of Fire. Jesus gave some very strong warnings against going there (if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out…). If after living a life of sin apart from God the worst is that I will cease to be, then I do not understand the need for such dire warnings. I think the emphasis would then be more on what you would miss out on…eternal happiness with God, no pain, no sorrow, no sadness, streets of gold, unimaginable glorious sites, fellowship with all of the other saved, etc. However, Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. Now granted, if the annihilation view is correct and if the lost will first experience punishment in the form of unimaginable torment for a very long time (perhaps millions or billions of years) before being annihilated, then that will be horrifying for them. However, I still feel that it pales in comparison to if the torment were unending. If while being in horrendous torment, you knew that the torment would eventually end and you would then have no memory of it (or thoughts of any kind for that matter), then I would imagine you could find some comfort in that knowledge. However, if while in torment you knew it would never end, the hopelessness you would feel would be unimaginable.

I believe that the plain / straightforward understanding of this is that the Bible teaches eternal conscious suffering in the Lake of Fire. In general, I think that a person would first have to want to see if the teaching on this could be understood to be that of annihilation before one can start to really see it that way. I think one then has to work to try to make the view of annihilation fit with the Bible, whereas the view of conscious eternal suffering naturally comes out.

 

[Norbert L]

I've little time for the forums these days, sadly, but this topic prompted me to reply.

When I see topics like this, my first thought -- and also challenge -- for those concerned with things such as this is taken from John 21:22 and paraphrased as follows:

"If it is my will that Hitler gets justice (or annihilation), what is that to you? Follow me!"

If more people spent time simply loving their neighbors as themselves and less time worrying about vanities such as this, the world would be a better place, no?

In Christ,
Daryl

I like your answer, I fully agree with its' major point, "If it is my will that Hitler gets justice (or annihilation), what is that to you? Follow me!" It's an excellent approach to the OP in my view.

I do however believe in the worrying about vanities such as this, over time it may lead to a vehicle for spiritual growth to those that participate in the discussion. That there is actually such a thing as growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. It doesn't happen all at once, nobody is a know it all even though people speak as if they do know it all. Eventually a mature understanding of this type of concern will develop.

Posting in discussions can bear fruit down the road.

 

[1W7]

This is silly. The whole point of "worry" as it might related to the notion of Annihilation will depend on each person, to the level of "risk aversion" that he or she has. Some people are indeed fools and blithely go around saying, "I'm not worried, I'm not worried, I'm not worried!!" And the reason they don't have sensitivity is because they've got a cognitive problem and the fact of death isn't on their emotive radar. They probably are socio-paths on top it, with accompanying dullness and apathy to other aspects of existence and social life as well.

As for myself, part of the reason I even bothered to check out the Bible when I was a teenager was because I experienced an onset of fear about death and non-existence, to which I found a welcome remedy in the person of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

I do not see how this is silly at all. I am comparing the views of unending torment versus annihilation (be it immediate annihilation or a period of conscious torment before being annihilated). In a situation where a person was unsure of his/her salvation, if that person believed the end state of the lost was non-existence, I could see then where that person may not be as strongly motivated to make sure of his/her salvation (...if it turns out that I was not saved after all, at least I won't be around to know what I missed out on...at least I will not suffer torment forever...). Another scenario is that of a person that hears the way of salvation and believes that there is something to it. However, that person likes living as he/she chooses, likes certain sinful activities, etc., and decides that if the worst that will happen to him/her is that he/she will cease to be, the person then decides he/she will pay the price of non-existence in order to live as he/she chooses.

 

[elbato]

Yes--poor Jews, at least with Hitler their suffering came to an end, with God, according to you, it will continue forever.

Total annihilation is not biblical. it is a belief of Jehovah Witnesses and I always bring up the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
I see hell as the absence of God so degrees or levels of hell is a moot topic.

 

[mmksparbud]

Seeing long cold walls of Sceipture like that is not very helpful, encouraging or likely to win people to aligning to the viewpoint. Especially as none of the passages were explained in context they were isolated, out of order and made to 'fit' a viewpoint. Just because Scripture is quoted does not mean it is true or that it brings glory to God especially if it is presented in a rushed unloving manner.

Anyone can take ten isolated paragraphs from ten books loosly based on a topic and present them as a basis for a valid argument. It does not make it right. I do not think that is the way to treat God or His library.

I am young in my faith not yet equipped to debate and defend it and it does not show the brilliance of God being faced with cold walls of Scripture and being told I do not understand how is that encouraging? I want to understand that is why I believe. I looked up every passage you quoted. I read the verses surrounding it and pointed out some clearly fid not relate. I am working with what I have and try not to presume I am better than other believers because of our different levels of light.

God has revealed some light to me and based on that my faith is where I am supposed to be and the convictions I hold are fine for me until other revelations challenge me that is the only thing you said I can agree on. I am sorry I am not where you are right now.

God bless.

How old are you? I had no idea of your age, there is no age written. I thought you were versed in scriptures---these are verses that have been put up dozens of times. By several different people, just figured you'd been exposed to them before here. I do not like to debate young ones as I am just not used to it and really hate being surprised with that information. I debated one other such individual who had no experience on here and young and she took offense and asked me to put her on ignore, which I did. Had I known she was so young and not versed in scriptures I would have worded things differently. Had she been older, she would not have taken offense. I've been presented with a wall of verses all claiming proof of eternal torment--several times. I guess I've gotten used to it. I'll try and keep your position in mind.

 

[Ronald Rose]

A glaring problem with Annihilation is that all unsaved people receive the same "punishment".

How do those who promote the idea of annihilation answer to its injustice?

In-Justice? Punishment is punishment. G-d made the rules not us. G-d set's the goals for Justice, you seem to want revenge.

Galatians Chapter 5 19 - Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of G-d.

James 2:10 - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

1 John Chapter 5 16 - If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1 John 3:15 - Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 Corinthians Chapter 6 9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of G-d? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of G-d.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of G-d [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[daleksteve]

A glaring problem with Annihilation is that all unsaved people receive the same "punishment".

How do those who promote the idea of annihilation answer to its injustice?

Hitler will be in Hell, that's for certain, so really this thread boils down to exactly what level of punishment Satan will dish out to him in Hell.

 

[Ronald Rose]

Total annihilation is not biblical. it is a belief of Jehovah Witnesses and I always bring up the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
I see hell as the absence of God so degrees or levels of hell is a moot topic.

Psalm 37:38 Sinners will come to an end together, and the end of the wicked is for destruction.

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish-- like smoke they vanish away.

Psalm 92:7 That when the wicked sprouted up like grass And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

Psalm 145:20 The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.

Malachi 4:1,3. "For behold the day is coming burning like and oven, and all the proud, yes allude wickedly shall be as stubble. And the day that is coming shall burn them up, says the Lord of hosts,that shall leave them neither root nor branch. . . You shall trample the wicked for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet."

Psalms 37:10, 11, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look diligently for his place, but it shall be no more."

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Many will try to use Luke 16:19-31 as proof that there is conscious life after death, and that there is a place of eternal torment (Hell). It is important to point out that Luke 16:19-31 is the fifth in a series of parables as follows -

• 
  1. The lost sheep - Luke 15:3-7
  2. The lost coin - Luke 15:8-10
  3. The lost boy - Luke 15:11-32
  4. The unjust steward - Luke 16:1-13
  5. The rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19-31
  

Parables are designed to teach great moral principles. Each feature of the parable is not to be taken absolutely literally. The question in each parable is what are the great moral lessons. We get into deep trouble if we attempt to take each detail of the parable literally rather than seek the lesson that Jesus is trying to teach. Let's go ahead and assume for a moment that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a literally true story-

• Do people actually have conversations between Heaven and Hell?
  
• Can those in heaven see people burning in Hell?
  
• Can they hear their screams?
  
• Would a finger dipped in water actually lessen the torment of another?
  
• Abraham must have a very large bosom to contain all the individuals who go there!

Heaven would be a terrible place if we beheld the constant, ever present suffering of our friends for all of eternity. So, why did Jesus use this story and tell it as He did? What lesson(s) was He trying to teach?

The Jews had a common story describing death as passing through a valley of darkness and they pictured salvation as fleeing to the security of Abraham's bosom. The Jews also believed that riches were a sign of God's favor and poverty a sign of His displeasure. The rich man living sumptuously represents the Jews, who had access to the word of God but refused to share it. They were squandering and wasting the spiritual riches for which they were the stewards, as in the previous parable of the unjust steward. The Jews were the fig tree that bore no fruit (Mark 11:13-14, 20, Luke 13:6-9), and the husbandmen of the unproductive vineyard (Matt. 21:33-45, Mark 12:1-12, Luke 20:9-19). Lazarus represents the Gentiles, who the Jews would not minister to. So the rich man in the story, whom the Jews thought blessed of God, ends up in Hell, while the poor Lazarus is saved and greeted by Abraham. Jesus had reversed the outcome from what the Jews expected. This is why Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the way he did. It was not intended to convey the exact circumstances of Heaven or Hell, but rather to show to the Jews that they had grave misconceptions about who was saved and who was lost.

These are the main points the parable teaches:

1. Like the parable of the talents (Matt 25:14-30), the unprofitable servant who squanders what the Lord has given him will be lost.

2. Riches gained by greed, dishonesty or oppressing the poor are not a sign of God's favor. Wealth is simply not an indicator of one's salvation.

3. The parable describes a great fixed gulf between the saved and the lost. Jesus clearly communicated that there is no second chance after death. The decision made in life determines our eternal destiny, and it simply cannot be changed after death.

4. Jesus points out that if the Pharisees rejected the clear teachings of God's word regarding salvation, they would also reject such a mighty, supernatural spectacular miracle as one being raised from the dead.

Note that a short while later in John 11:11-14,43,44 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. As a result the Pharisees and chief priests plotted to kill Jesus (John 11:53) and Lazarus (John 12:10). So the words of Jesus in Luke 16:31 were indeed prophetic and fulfilled.

So parables are not meant to be taken literally as written. You must read beyond the literal text to see the important principle or lesson(s) being taught.