Wild at Heart

[JPPT1974]

The book is not for me either and it is not my cup of tea!! I am a mild-manner, quiet, soft-spoken, person of a few words woman who should have her mind and heart on Generation-X but even though my body is Gen-X, my heart, mind, soul, and spirit are mainly "old-school" baby boomers generation. The men in the book seem like they are too macho and unsensitive while portraying the women to being weak and vulnerable.

 

[Jedi]

I didnt like the book at all! Didnt do anything for me. I felt there was WAY WAY WAY too many generizations! He says on one part ALL guys want these 3 things and ALL girls want this three things and thats just the way we are and want to feel this way. I thought that was ****.

You understand, of course, that when someone says “all,” they generally mean “for all practical purposes, all.” This is not to mean there aren’t a couple freaks out of the population that don’t adhere to otherwise universal criterion.

Further, I simply don’t believe you when you deny the three things John Eldredge says essentially every guy desires: a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue. Look at the video games and movies geared toward men and you'll see this to be engraved into the core of the male population. It might be suppressed, but there’s no doubt that such desires are there in every man who doesn’t have some sort of psychological problem on par with mental retardation.

A lot of men think they are simply here on earth to kill time—and it’s killing them. But the truth is precisely the opposite. The secret longing of your heart, whether it’s to build a boat and sail it, to write a symphony and play it, to plant a field and care for it—those are the things you were made to do. That’s what you’re here for. Explore, build, conquer—you don’t have to tell a boy to do those things for the simple reason that it is his purpose. Denying this fact and brushing it off as “generalization” is nonsensical.

The men in the book seem like they are too macho and unsensitive while portraying the women to being weak and vulnerable.

Then I really think you’ve radically misunderstood the book. In discussing women, “Eve is given to Adam as his ezer kenegdo—or as many translations have it, his “help meet” or “helper.” Doesn’t sound like much, does it? It makes me think of Hamburger Helper. But Robert Alter says this is ‘a notoriously difficult word to translate.’ It means something far more powerful than just ‘helper’; it means ‘lifesaver.’ The phrase is only used elsewhere of God, when you need him to come through for you desperately… Eve is a life giver; she is Adam’s ally. It is to both of them that the charter for adventure is given. It will take both of them to sustain life. And they will both need to fight together.” (Wild At Heart, 51).

I’m sick and tired of people glancing at the book and accusing it of downplaying women. Such people obviously have only a very shallow understanding of what the guy’s talking about and have missed the point entirely. A huge chunk of the book is about "the wound" essentially every guy has, yet you claim this book portrays men as "too macho" or "unsensitive?" Did you not read these chapters (4-7; pp. 60-138)? Good heavens, people.

 

[life_beckons]

again well done jedi... let me add a few things.

you will know something by its fruit or whatever... how many men has this book changed? How many men have been awakened and felt a stirring in their soul after reading it? Has there not been fruit?

This book changed my complete mindset. It stirred me and has lead me on the path in search of life... true life. I have learned so much since then, though i still have a long way to go. How can you discredit something which has done so much good IMO.

This book has nothing to do with machoism. I despise machoism. Machoism is fake. What this book has led me to search for is what is real.

I dont want to sound like this is the the golden key and if you dont agree with the book or it did not impact you that you are somehow abnormal. That is not the case. However, this book has done brought so much change (for the better i believe) in so many men that i believe it is wrong to dismiss it when you look at the fruit it has brought.

 

[life_beckons]

Please Lord...

 

[life_beckons]

grant me the patience to not click the "post quick reply" button three times

 

[Living4Him03]

I didnt like the book at all! Didnt do anything for me. I felt there was WAY WAY WAY too many generizations! He says on one part ALL guys want these 3 things and ALL girls want this three things and thats just the way we are and want to feel this way. I thought that was ****.

Living for him, i felt the same way you did!

I agree. It just seems that this guy makes a lot of assumptions and generalizations and I just don't like that. If this book is so great, why isn't it helping our men??? I'm not anti-men, but most men I know are not real men. They are nothing like Joseph, or Moses, or Christ, who they should be aspiring to be like! It is really frustrating. It seems like guys talk alot but there is little action. If this book has blessed you great, but it has not blessed me. When Christian men become real men, let me know!

 

[life_beckons]

youve got to be kidding me... did you read what i wrote????????????????????

ive seen this book impact men. how many men have already talked about what it has done for them. im very sorry that this book did not bless you living4him. it wont affect everyone. its not some magic that everyone must be blessed by. But stop taking away from those whose lives have been changed by it.

And about christian men becoming real men. Thats the whole POINT!!!!!!!!!!

Thats the search and that is the journey. It will not happen overnight. It wont happen the day after you read this book. A man will not suddenly say to himself "Oooh, i have been enlightened" and the next day be david. But he may verywell start his way on that path and that in itself is a noble pursuit.

if the bible is so great... why isnt it helping our men???

i dont get your line of thinking.

again honestly for all those who got nothing out of this book (and to get nothing requires quite some focus) its ok... theres nothing wrong. i dont want to come down on those who didnt. but theres no reason to come down on those who did.

 

[Jedi]

I agree. It just seems that this guy makes a lot of assumptions and generalizations and I just don't like that.

I’ve already addressed this objection. Ignoring rebuttals to your assertions is hardly a good way to carry on a discussion.

If this book is so great, why isn't it helping our men???

Did you not read Life_Beckon’s post? That’s exactly what it was about. It really seems you’re being willfully ignorant now.

I'm not anti-men, but most men I know are not real men. They are nothing like Joseph, or Moses, or Christ, who they should be aspiring to be like! It is really frustrating. It seems like guys talk alot but there is little action.

Wild At Heart tackles this very issue. Truly, it seems you have never read or understood this book.

If this book has blessed you great, but it has not blessed me.

A good reason for that could be that this book is geared toward men. Last I looked at your profile, you were a woman. If a scientist writes a book about geology, microbiologists shouldn’t complain when the book doesn’t directly help them.

When Christian men become real men, let me know!

For someone who berates a book because it makes alleged “generalizations,” you sure have made a blatantly mistaken generalization here by labeling “Christian men” as not real men. Not only is this obviously not true, but once again seems to be nothing more than you spitting venom at men, probably because you got burned some time in the past.

 

[JPPT1974]

Well, don't forget other men in the Bible like Paul, Peter, David(despite the sin to murder someone's husband).

 

[Jedi]

Well, don't forget other men in the Bible like Paul, Peter, David(despite the sin to murder someone's husband).

 

[Apollonian]

*Looks at Jedi, Life Beckons, and then the others* Well, I have only read a little bit about the book so far, so with regard to recent debate I will only say so much as "well said" on the part of Jedi and Life Beckons.

However, I am wondering, for myself, whether or not it would be worthwhile to read the book, not because it would not help me but rather because I wonder whether it actually fleshes out the concepts in sufficient depth for me personally. In other words, if I already have a healthy grasp of the Battle, the Adventure, and the search for Beauty...or at least what I think Eldridge means by these things. My specific question is this: is this book targeted at men in all stages of their lives, or is it targeted more specifically at those of us who have mixed up notions of what it means to realize true manhood? If the answer is the latter, then is there another book that I might read which talks about the specifics on how to express these traits and relate to other people, specifically women?

-Apollonian
20/M INTx

 

[life_beckons]

Apollonian,

For me this book really has lead me in the search of true manhood. In other words it was the awakening for me. It also changed my mindset and expalined alot of what i felt. It put some pieces together. Now while the book did provide some examples of how to start living this out, it didnt do as much for me in this area.

So in that way it has more so led me on to the journey than given me the steps of the journey. Its not a long read and im sure it would be good for anyone no matter what stage you are at. Though as i said i find myself now searching for how to carry this out. I guess thats part of the journey for us. Ive gone back every few months to reread sections to refocus me.

Though im sure this book will cover some of the bases your asking for in a book, i dont think it will cover all, if im understanding you correctly. But again i do think it is worthwhile no matter what your stage. Just even to have on hand to refer to.

 

[life_beckons]

Sorry one more thing,

I also found myself also craving for more depth in it. Though it already did soooo much for me i wanted to go even deeper into these concepts.

I do think that it is necessary to actually start living it out and experiencing the growth oneself. Sometimes when all the answers are there we dont move ourselves. Maybe use it as a motivation to search yourself in the areas you want to go deeper. Get a few guy friends and work through it. Discuss it. You can use it as a starting point and start digging deeper with a small community of guys.

And my last bit of advice (whatever it may be worth) is that we as men must not simply keep these ideas and concepts in our heads. We must begin to live them. Even though we want something deeper maybe we should try to apply as much as we can out of what we have and then see where we will move from there. Im really speaking to myself here. But ill mention it to you aswell.

 

[Cordy]

"Wild at Heart":

Yuk !

I have skimmed through portions of the book, read writings on the book and my husband heard the author on the radio. From what we know, we are greatly unimpressed. Many of this book’s concepts seem unscriptural and simply put the “religious” or “spiritual” stamp on things that are cultural constructed (or maybe even personal).

Two thumbs down

 

[ischus]

This book is great! It really speaks to the heart of hearts in all of us men. I have nothing to add here, except my endorsement. My apologies to those who found nothing meaningful in the book.

I do agree with mbams (whoa - did I just say that ) that it is pretty much geared toward a western, male audience and is not a supra-cultural standard for all peoples, but for those of us who need a good it is right on target....

 

[Jedi]

I have skimmed through portions of the book, read writings on the book and my husband heard the author on the radio. From what we know, we are greatly unimpressed. Many of this book’s concepts seem unscriptural and simply put the “religious” or “spiritual” stamp on things that are cultural constructed (or maybe even personal).

Until you’ve actually read the book, your opinion is void. You can’t talk about a book you’ve never read. Further, having traveled all over the world from Saudi Arabia to Thai Land to Jamaica to Holland to Italy to Grand Cayman to Zimbabwe, the concepts described in the book are universal. Hiding behind cultural relativism is pitiable.

It’s interesting how everyone who has actually read the book seem to give it “two thumbs up,” and those who have only heard things by word of mouth or had no idea what the book was about are the ones to trash it.

 

[Cordy]

It is the book I don’t like, not you Jedi, so please don’t take it as a personal attack on you.

No, my opinion is not void.
See, I don’t have to read through the entire book to know that is has some major fallacies. This one for instance.

…the concepts described in the book are universal.

Or this one (from your signature)…

"...in the heart of every man is a desperate desire for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue."


To say “every man” means that ever single man on earth is like this. If one man does NOT have this “desperate desire”, then this statement then becomes false. My husband, father, cousins, best male friends growing up, and husband’s of friends now are not like this! They are actually pretty insulted that someone should say that this is the case. They are nice guys, and guess what boys, a whole lot of girls do like nice guys. *shock!!!*

…and those who have only heard things by word of mouth or had no idea what the book was about are the ones to trash”

hm… maybe you didn’t read my post. I have read portions of the book. I was just too sick and upset to continue. I have had other friends do the same. I have read summaries of the book (even, yes, endorsing it), and it only strengthens my opinion. My husband heard the author advertise his book on the radio. Unless he completely misrepresented himself, it only solidifies what we understand the book to be about.

 

[Quiet Storm]

*edit* That wasn't really a constructive thing to put in.....

 

[Quiet Storm]

On the book:

I haven't read it. To be honest, I have no desire to, BUT: if it's inspiring men to go further and deeper with God, then.........what's the problem????

 

[mina]

Sigh, This thread made me disheartened. I haven't read this book. But a guy at my church did a study on it and he said it was really good and helped him in being a husband and a man. I think it's important to remember that John Eldridge is not God and that this book is not the word of God. It's going to help a lot of people, but it's not going to help everybody. Meaning: It's not going to be for everybody. And that's ok. It's also ok if you got a lot out of it. The point is not to bash the author, the book or each other. I think that if it's inspiring some men to be better for God and make them more hungry for God and being a man of God then that's a good thing. Praise God for that! But of course it's not the inspired word of God so it's not going to inspire every Christian on Earth. There are a lot of Christian writers out there that I don't like to read, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a good Christian and didn't mean what they wrote or wrote what they wrote just to annoy me. One of the great things about how God made us is that he gave us brains and intelligence to decide what we like and what we agree with. We are allowed to think. We can read things that we don't exactly agree with to try and understand others, it does not mean we have to agree with it ourselfs. Nor does it mean that people that do agree with those things are any less intelligent or good than us.