Wikileaks and Julian Assange

[David Brider]

I clearly said that Assange should be given a fair trial before his execution.

Interesting that you've already determined his guilt ahead of this "fair trial"...

David.

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Interesting that you've already determined his guilt ahead of this "fair trial"...

David.

Even the Austrian Prime Minister has said he's guilty already. Since as you guys are so keen to point out he's an Austrian citizen, surely that pretty much clinches it?

I don't believe you liberals sometimes. Its like you take up contrary positions to conservatives on principal, regardless of issue. Back when wikileaks broke the Climategate scandal, you were all baying for his blood, and St. Gore was calling for his head. Now that a few clear thinking conservatives have made the perfectly reasonable observation that this guy is a dangerous traitor, suddenly he's your best friend. I've evn seen some of you try to apologise on his behalf as a RAPIST... so much for the "feminism" of the left.

 

[Yoder777]

I am not a liberal. Like Ron Paul, I believe that Wikileaks serves as a check on government, just what a true conservative would want:
Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks On House Floor (VIDEO)

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

I am not a liberal. Like Ron Paul, I believe that Wikileaks serves as a check on government, just what a true conservative would want:
Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks On House Floor (VIDEO)

Again... which is all fine and good until they start releasing military secrets that compromise operational integrity and directly threaten national security.

The Rosenbergs were probably fun at parties. That doesn't excuse the fact they gave the soviets the knowledge to build nuclear weapons.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Don't be obtuse. I never said anything about the state being infalible. I clearly said that Assange should be given a fair trial before his execution. Assuming operational circumstances allow, of course.

Assange doesn't have to answer to the United States.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, you've got it all wrong. The "collateral murder" video, as you call it, is another prime example of wikileaks endangering our soldier's lives. Stripped of all context and quote mined every which way, that video can be spun to look as though american soldiers are deliberately attempting to harm non-combatants, which directly supports terrorist recruitment and propaganda, not to mention makes the individual soldiers in the film, and worse, their families, obvious targets for wrongful retribution.

Protesting the 'Ground Zero' Mosque can also be stripped of context, quote-mined every which way and spun to look as though Americans hate Muslims, which directly supports terrorists recruitment and propaganda. I take it then... that since you don't want to give them fuel for the fire, you think that those protesting the GZ Mosque are helping the terrorists win (and are thus traitors too)?

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Assange doesn't have to answer to the United States.

When he comits crimes against the United States, of course he does! We have an extradition treaty with Austria.

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Protesting the 'Ground Zero' Mosque can also be stripped of context, quote-mined every which way and spun to look as though Americans hate Muslims, which directly supports terrorists recruitment and propaganda. I take it then... that since you don't want to give them fuel for the fire, you think that those protesting the GZ Mosque are helping the terrorists win (and are thus traitors too)?

Of course not. The people doing the quote mining and context stripping are the ones helping the terrorists.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course not. The people doing the quote mining and context stripping are the ones helping the terrorists.

Then you've gone back on what you previously said about it being wrong for Wikileaks to release that video. You acknowledge that if somebody quote-mines and context strips that video for terrorist-recruitment purposes, then it is not the fault of Wikileaks that this occurred.

 

[David Brider]

Even the Austrian Prime Minister has said he's guilty already. Since as you guys are so keen to point out he's an Austrian citizen, surely that pretty much clinches it?

Australian, actually. Not Austrian. There's quite a difference.

And no, what would clinch it would be if it could be determined exactly what crime he was to be accused of, then bring him before a relevant court of law for that crime, for him to be tried before a jury of his peers.

Personally, I'm not sure exactly what crime he can be said to have committed, if any. It does, though, rather amuse that there seem to be quite a number of Americans, yourself included, who are apparently convinced that he has committed treason against the USA - since, as has been pointed out, treason is something that can only, by definition, be carried against ones own nation or government.

I don't believe you liberals sometimes. Its like you take up contrary positions to conservatives on principal, regardless of issue.

Well, y'know, liberal positions tend to not be in accord with conservative positions. So what do you expect?

Back when wikileaks broke the Climategate scandal, you were all baying for his blood, and St. Gore was calling for his head.

Were we? I wasn't.

Now that a few clear thinking conservatives have made the perfectly reasonable observation that this guy is a dangerous traitor, suddenly he's your best friend.

Except that the "perfectly reasonable observation" is based on a flawed premiss. A non-US citizen publishing documents which show the US in a bad light isn't guilty of treason against the US, because only US citizens can be guilty of treason against the US. Whether publishing the documents makes him dangerous, I honestly don't know; and whether or not publishing the documents makes him guilty of any other crimes, I also don't know. If he's guilty of anything, I've no doubt a court is perfectlt capable of bringing him to justice.

And no, he's not my best friend. I only know of the guy through what little I've read and seen in the news.

I've even seen some of you try to apologise on his behalf as a RAPIST... so much for the "feminism" of the left.

AIUI, Mr Assange has denied the rape charges against him. I thought they were dropped by the Swedish court. Could be wrong about that, though.

David.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Australian, actually. Not Austrian. There's quite a difference.

And no, what would clinch it would be if it could be determined exactly what crime he was to be accused of, then bring him before a relevant court of law for that crime, for him to be tried before a jury of his peers.

Personally, I'm not sure exactly what crime he can be said to have committed, if any. It does, though, rather amuse that there seem to be quite a number of Americans, yourself included, who are apparently convinced that he has committed treason against the USA - since, as has been pointed out, treason is something that can only, by definition, be carried against ones own nation or government.

Australian PM Julia Gillard got into a bit of trouble for claiming that Assange had acted illegally. When further questioned, Gillard couldn't specify what exactly he had done that was illegal under Australian law. How could she possibly support his extradition to the US when she can't even detail what laws his conduct has breached?

 

[Chris81]

Don't be obtuse. I never said anything about the state being infalible. I clearly said that Assange should be given a fair trial before his execution. Assuming operational circumstances allow, of course.

I am just trying to help justify the many points you have made on this thread. If our enemies only knew how just and righteous we are they wouldn't hate us. The reason the terrorist hate us is because of all the negative coverage that has been published or aired about the war on terror, more specifically the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Had the media shown how successful the US has been in conducting the wars and how our goal is only to help the people build a thriving democracy the terrorist wouldn't hate us. Instead they would have laid down their arms long ago and helped us in the rebuilding of Iraq and Afghanistan.

I agree that Assange should be given a fair trial. I think his trial and execution should be televised for the world to see. It should be a very short trial and be made into a bit of a show. First it should start off by Assange being given a strong condemnation by the judge. Then his execution should take to place somewhere for a large public viewing, where he executed by slowly being strangled to death by piano wire.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

If you don't want people to take the video of you shooting unarmed civilians from attack helicopters "out of context" DON'T SHOOT UNARMED CIVILIANS FROM ATTACK HELICOPTERS

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Then you've gone back on what you previously said about it being wrong for Wikileaks to release that video. You acknowledge that if somebody quote-mines and context strips that video for terrorist-recruitment purposes, then it is not the fault of Wikileaks that this occurred.

Except that the wikileaks video, in addition to opening itself up for quote mining, out of context propaganda purposes, also makes individual soldiers potential targets, as well as providing military inteligence and insight into our military doctrine and operating procedures.

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

If you don't want people to take the video of you shooting unarmed civilians from attack helicopters "out of context" DON'T SHOOT UNARMED CIVILIANS FROM ATTACK HELICOPTERS

Unarmed civilians shouldn't threaten attack helicopters and then complain when they are shot at.

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Australian PM Julia Gillard got into a bit of trouble for claiming that Assange had acted illegally. When further questioned, Gillard couldn't specify what exactly he had done that was illegal under Australian law. How could she possibly support his extradition to the US when she can't even detail what laws his conduct has breached?

The Austrian prime minister is a "she"? I looked at the photo on the article I read about here condemning this guy and could have sworn... but never mind.

So what, rape isn't a crime in Austria?

 

[sublime911]

I could care less about people revealing information about foreign powers, but he revealed American classified information... that makes him a traitor to America!

People revealing information about China, Russia and N. Korea to America are chalk and cheese, since they aren't revealing information to a foreign power.

My troll sense is tingling. So far everything you have said seems trollish.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Unarmed civilians shouldn't threaten attack helicopters and then complain when they are shot at.

Don't troll.

 

[Hans Talhoffer]

Don't troll.

It was a perfectly reasonable comment. Unarmed civilians go racing towards an attack helicopter expect sympathy when shot at? Just... insane.

Heres a pro tip for you all... if there's an attack helicopter from an occupying power buzzing around near your house, and you AREN'T armed with surface to air man portable artillery... STAY INDOORS!

 

[MrGoodBytes]

It was a perfectly reasonable comment. Unarmed civilians go racing towards an attack helicopter expect sympathy when shot at? Just... insane.

Heres a pro tip for you all... if there's an attack helicopter from an occupying power buzzing around near your house, and you AREN'T armed with surface to air man portable artillery... STAY INDOORS!

I'm Crazyhorse 18, you're a civilian, and the report missile has been launched.