wicca

[if_i_only_had_a_brain]

It's not about the person's past. Whenever someone comes to Christ and accept him into their heart they are a changed person. They turn from that life of sin. The bible says that the only sin that can't be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Havoc]

It does and there is...might be an interesting discussion on another thread.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

Fulfilled prophecy is a myth that has been discussed in other threads many times. Unfortunatly even though Christians cannot point conclusively to even one fulfilled prophecy they still insist that they have a 100% record.

Prophecy is only verifiable if...

1. It can be shown that the prophecy was uttered by whom and exactly as written. The prophecy must be verifiable that it had not been changed to fit the event or person it supposedly points to

2. It can only refer to the person and event that it is so claimed and not to any other person or event. It must be specific.

3. It can be shown that the story of the event or person it refers to had not been changed to fit the prophecy.

There is not one claimed prophecy in the Bible that can fit any of these criteria let alone all three. Thus you have a 0% fulfillment that you can show, not the 100% you claim. Even your main prophecies, those which supposedly point to Christ, are denied by the very group of people whose ancestors actually made the prophecies.

 

[Teh Wiccan]

So in summary, they wouldn't take responsibility, Brain?

 

[Free_Spirit]

“

What about the 100% accurate fulfillment of prophecy? Doesn't count?”

I’m afraid I have no faith in Biblical prophecy, nor in the veracity of the Bible. The Bible is a text that was written by man, and therefore it is susceptible to corruption by man. Because the Bible wasn’t recorded until decades, or even centuries after Christ’s death, I have no faith that Christ truly fulfilled the prophecies as purported. Have you ever visited the site, jesusneverexisted.com? It is a very interesting read, and it shows how “Christ” may have actually been a collective group of “Jesus’s” rather than a single historical man.

“You said Christians require the sacrifice of animals, and no we do not.”

No, all I meant was that, according to your religion, it didn’t matter whether it was man or animal who paid the price for sin. I realize that modern Christians do not require animal sacrifice, but you still have a long history of such practices.

“Yeah I can forgive my kid for a silly little thing, but you are not grasping the full consequence of sin as relating to the eternal God.”

“A silly little thing?” According to Christian doctrine, every “silly little thing” *IS* a sin. God still has the ability to forgive his children, just as every parent does.

Besides, IMO God is the one who is responsible for sin, not mankind. To begin with, the Christian God created evil, then he gave mankind the ability to sin, and then he purposely left Adam and Eve alone in the Garden of Eden with Satan himself. It’s rather like locking a hungry dog in a room with a T-bone steak, and then being mad at him when he eats it. As I see it, either the Christian God made a mistake (and therefore is not omniscient), or he is a sadist who wanted his children to suffer.

 

[Rae]

I have no doubt you share a close personel relationship

--Good.



with your 'gods'

Insult #1. I haven't insulted your God. Please refrain from insulting mine.



but my question is: How do you know who you are really worshiping?

--The same way you do…what makes sense to me, my own spiritual experiences, and faith.



Yes, I believe it is Satan and his minion,

--And I still believe you're wrong about that…



but how do you know what you believe?

--I don't understand the question. Who but me could know what I believe?



Where do you get your source of information?

--What makes sense to me, my own spiritual experiences, and faith.



How do you know who you are worshiping?

--The same way you do. Faith, my spiritual experiences, and what makes sense to me.

 

[Ryoko Ozaki]

One message from me to all Christians....

"Preach God to me, while watching me meditate, and you're only fooling yourself." ~ Me

What I mean is that no matter how much people try to make me or any other non-Christian believe in God, it won't work, because it's not fact to us and even though you know we're not Christian you think that it has to be.

 

[Sarah :)]

I thought pagans believed in God, lots of Gods. ???

 

[Ryoko Ozaki]

Yes, Paganism is a pre-Christian religion that believes in many Gods and Godesses.

 

[Arikay]

Some do, some believe in one god, others none.

The most broad definition of "pagan" is a religious belief that is not christian, catholic, jewish or muslim (im not sure how many include muslim in that, but I figured since its the same god, I would).

There are many new pagan movements, Neo Pagans. Some believe in a god, others multiple gods, others no god, it all really depends.

 

[Ryoko Ozaki]

Oh, I've only known of Pagans that believe in many. However, I guess like Buddhists sects and Christian denominations Pagans have their own branches too.

 

[Sarah :)]

Everyone has the right to believe what they want.

 

[Arikay]

Yeah, one definition is a polytheistic religion. It really depends on what definition you use. There is a difference between General Pagan, less general pagan (such as polytheistic) and Neo pagan (a group of different new religions, including wicca and new druidic religions like the RDNA).

Oh, I've only known of Pagans that believe in many. However, I guess like Buddhists sects and Christian denominations Pagans have their own branches too.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Fulfilled prophecy is a myth that has been discussed in other threads many times. Unfortunatly even though Christians cannot point conclusively to even one fulfilled prophecy they still insist that they have a 100% record.

Prophecy is only verifiable if...

1. It can be shown that the prophecy was uttered by whom and exactly as written. The prophecy must be verifiable that it had not been changed to fit the event or person it supposedly points to

2. It can only refer to the person and event that it is so claimed and not to any other person or event. It must be specific.

3. It can be shown that the story of the event or person it refers to had not been changed to fit the prophecy.

There is not one claimed prophecy in the Bible that can fit any of these criteria let alone all three. Thus you have a 0% fulfillment that you can show, not the 100% you claim. Even your main prophecies, those which supposedly point to Christ, are denied by the very group of people whose ancestors actually made the prophecies.

For starters read the book of Jeremiah, the entire book is Jeremiah prophecing to the people of Jerusalem. What he said is exactly what happened. Try Isaiah or Daniel, try reading them before you answer.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[Isaiah 53]

I’m afraid I have no faith in Biblical prophecy, nor in the veracity of the Bible. The Bible is a text that was written by man, and therefore it is susceptible to corruption by man. Because the Bible wasn’t recorded until decades, or even centuries after Christ’s death. Really, what about the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. When comparing the discoverd book of Isaiah with the current book of Isaiah it was accurate to like 98%, the only difference were minor words that did not at all effect the meaning of the book. This book was written 400 years before Christ. As for you reference to a number of Jesus's, there is plenty of secular proof of the existance of Jesus.

No, all I meant was that, according to your religion, it didn’t matter whether it was man or animal who paid the price for sin. I realize that modern Christians do not require animal sacrifice, but you still have a long history of such practices. No, if animals would cut it then Christ would never have come.

“A silly little thing?” According to Christian doctrine, every “silly little thing” *IS* a sin. God still has the ability to forgive his children, just as every parent does. Now He has the ability because of Christ.

Besides, IMO God is the one who is responsible for sin, not mankind. To begin with, the Christian God created evil, then he gave mankind the ability to sin, and then he purposely left Adam and Eve alone in the Garden of Eden with Satan himself. It’s rather like locking a hungry dog in a room with a T-bone steak, and then being mad at him when he eats it. As I see it, either the Christian God made a mistake (and therefore is not omniscient), or he is a sadist who wanted his children to suffer. Well you are entitled to your own opinion. But that is not what Christianity or Judism teaches. Man is responsible for the entering of sin into the world. God loves us so much that He gives us free will, to obey Him or not is our choice. Neither does God send anyone to Hell, people send themselves by the choices they make.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[Isaiah 53]

I have no doubt you share a close personel relationship

--Good.



with your 'gods'

Insult #1. I haven't insulted your God. Please refrain from insulting mine. I dont see how this is an insult, but if you are offended I appologize.



but my question is: How do you know who you are really worshiping?

--The same way you do…what makes sense to me, my own spiritual experiences, and faith.



but how do you know what you believe?

--I don't understand the question. Who but me could know what I believe?



Where do you get your source of information?

--What makes sense to me, my own spiritual experiences, and faith.

I guess a better way to rephrase this question is. If Wiccans/Pagans worship; one god, many gods, or a few gods. Where do you get your doctrine for that beleif. I don't know if their is a pagan 'bible' or if you just say, "Hey, I like the name Diana, so Im gonna worhsip her". Understand? Other major religions have some sort of doctrine they follow. So, how do you know who/whom you are worshiping.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

 

[Isaiah 53]

Some do, some believe in one god, others none.

The most broad definition of "pagan" is a religious belief that is not christian, catholic, jewish or muslim (im not sure how many include muslim in that, but I figured since its the same god, I would). FOR THE RECORD: ALLAH the god of Islam is NOT; I repeat NOT the same as the One True God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Who sent Himself to die upon a cross for you and me!!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

 

[Havoc]

Some do, some believe in one god, others none.

The most broad definition of "pagan" is a religious belief that is not christian, catholic, jewish or muslim (im not sure how many include muslim in that, but I figured since its the same god, I would). FOR THE RECORD: ALLAH the god of Islam is NOT; I repeat NOT the same as the One True God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Who sent Himself to die upon a cross for you and me!!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

More unfounded and patently ridiculous religious rhetoric presented as if it were actual truth. Do you seriously think any non-Christian here (or I suspect anywhere else) takes you seriously anymore?

Ever wonder why Paganism is the fastest growing religous group in NAmerica? Without actually doing any proseletysing?

One of the reasons we don't proseletyse is that we have enough trouble keeping up with the droves of people coming to us as a result of being "loved" by people like you. Fundies are the best advertising we could hope for.

Thanx for the help Isaiah53, I'm sure your God is very pleased with the results of your "witness" lol.

 

[Isaiah 53]

More unfounded and patently ridiculous religious rhetoric presented as if it were actual truth. Do you seriously think any non-Christian here (or I suspect anywhere else) takes you seriously anymore? Your opinion matters very little as to the result of others beliefs. And again, Allah is not the same as God. Whether you are Christian or not it is obvious to see.

Ever wonder why Paganism is the fastest growing religous group in NAmerica? Without actually doing any proseletysing? No, I dont wonder. The Bible tells us that this is the way the world will go before the end. So, I expect it will get worse.

One of the reasons we don't proseletyse is that we have enough trouble keeping up with the droves of people coming to us as a result of being "loved" by people like you. Fundies are the best advertising we could hope for. Its not a competition Havoc, it is fact. 'Droves' will continue to follow false gods and false relgions. God predicted it over 2000 years ago.

Thanx for the help Isaiah53, I'm sure your God is very pleased with the results of your "witness" lol. I refuse to allow myself to stoop to the childish level of name calling. Without Christ you can not presume to know the mind or heart of the Only God. Have a nice day!!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

 

[Havoc]

Actually you have been stooping to the level of "namecalling". You've been calling our faith "evil". In fact you've been "namecalling" most of the people on the face of the earth and hiding under your Bigotry to justify it.

 

[Rae]

There are certain principles most Pagans agree on. Often, Pagans come to the realization they believe them first, as I did, and then look around for a faith which encompasses them, also as I did.