wicca

[Free_Spirit]

"When comparing the discoverd book of Isaiah with the current book of Isaiah it was accurate to like 98%, the only difference were minor words that did not at all effect the meaning of the book. This book was written 400 years before Christ."

You completely missed my point. I said that the Jesus myth was likely distorted to fulfill the older prophecies. Because the New Testament wasn't recorded until centuries after Christ's death, we have no way of verifying whether that account is accurate or not.

"No, if animals would cut it then Christ would never have come."

So, in other words, everyone who lived before Christ's time went to hell?

"Man is responsible for the entering of sin into the world."

Man was innocent; before eating from the tree of knowledge (the original sin) he had absolutely no understanding of good or evil, and therefore he cannot be held accountable for his actions. One cannot willingly commit sin without first understanding what sin is.

"God loves us so much that He gives us free will, to obey Him or not is our choice."

Giving mankind the potential for eternal damnation is not love; it is sadism. Would you give a child a loaded weapon out of love? I think not. A loving God would have protected his children from harm, rather than exposing them to it.

 

[BarbB]

Your post is totally composed of misinformation!

You completely missed my point. I said that the Jesus myth was likely distorted to fulfill the older prophecies. Because the New Testament wasn't recorded until centuries after Christ's death, we have no way of verifying whether that account is accurate or not..

Not true - try from 20 to 70 years after Christ's death.

So, in other words, everyone who lived before Christ's time went to hell?.

Not true - Abraham, Enoch, at a minimum are in heaven. I think (but do not know for sure) that the righteous of God are in heaven with Abraham.

Man was innocent; before eating from the tree of knowledge (the original sin) he had absolutely no understanding of good or evil, and therefore he cannot be held accountable for his actions. One cannot willingly commit sin without first understanding what sin is..

God said "don't eat it" and Adam and Eve did not OBEY. They knew they should obey and still didn't. Their sin was not wanting to know good and evil; it was not obeying.

Giving mankind the potential for eternal damnation is not love; it is sadism. Would you give a child a loaded weapon out of love? I think not. A loving God would have protected his children from harm, rather than exposing them to it.

God did protect them from it as he warned them not to eat from the tree.

 

[Volos]

Originally posted by : Free_Spirit

You completely missed my point. I said that the Jesus myth was likely distorted to fulfill the older prophecies. Because the New Testament wasn't recorded until centuries after Christ's death, we have no way of verifying whether that account is accurate or not.

Originally posted by : newlamb

Not true - try from 20 to 70 years after Christ's death.

My understanding is that Mark was written in about the year 70 CE with Luke, Matthew and John written up to thirty years later.

Not true - Abraham, Enoch, at a minimum are in heaven. I think (but do not know for sure) that the righteous of God are in heaven with Abraham.

If this is so then it seems to call into question the doctrine that Jesus is the only way into heaven.

God said "don't eat it" and Adam and Eve did not OBEY. They knew they should obey and still didn't. Their sin was not wanting to know good and evil; it was not obeying.

but if they did not know the difference between good/evil and right/wrong they would have no concept that disobeying was in fact wrong.



Regardless I don’t understand the shifting the blame to Adam and Eve. In this myth Jehovah (or whatever his name is) is supposedly to be all powerful, all knowing and all good yet he purposefully sets his creation up to fall. If he really was omniscient he would know that the fruit would get eaten. The deity in question chose to put the tree there, shoes to forbid the eating of its fruit knowing full well what would happen and then got into a hissy fit when, surprise surprise, the fruit got eaten.

 

[Volos]

Originally posted by : Isaiah 53

I guess a better way to rephrase this question is. If Wiccans/Pagans worship; one god, many gods, or a few gods. Where do you get your doctrine for that beleif. I don't know if their is a pagan 'bible' or if you just say, "Hey, I like the name Diana, so Im gonna worhsip her". Understand? Other major religions have some sort of doctrine they follow. So, how do you know who/whom you are worshiping.

NeoPaganism is not a revealed religion, there is no doctrine, that is one of its great strengths. The lack of anything specifically holy/sacred (holy text, holy water, and so on) allows for the realization that EVERYTHING is holy/sacred.



One of the best descriptions of Paganism I have ever stumbled across is that: “It is a religion for adults.” The entire basis of Paganism is a unique personal relationship with the Divine. There is no doctrine or dogma to dictate or limit that personal relationship, it is strictly between the individual and the Divine.



The Divine takes on many forms, an infinite number of forms. There is the basic Pagan tenant “all Gods are one God, and all Goddesses are one Goddess, and the two are one.” Revealing that no matter who you are having that relationship with you are still having that relationship with the Divine. Pagans do not view Diana any differently than Jehovah. Both are masks or personas of the Divine.

 

[WayMan]

Volos

In other words NeoPaganism has no purpose and no substance. You have just told everyone here that there is not such a thing as Neo Paganism.

 

[Volos]

Originally posted by :

WayMan

In other words NeoPaganism has no purpose and no substance. You have just told everyone here that there is not such a thing as Neo Paganism.

A personal relationship with the Divine is nothing?

It is not a purpose?

Are you suggesting that a personal relationship with the Divine is unworthy of a religion? Or that you personally don’t understand what such a relationship is?

 

[WayMan]

Volos

From your explanation of "the Divine" I am at a total loss as to what it is, as from what you have posted you would seem to have no idea either.

What EXACTLY is the divine?

 

[MorningStar334]

According to the bible, Jesus stated that "He that is not with me is against me." If you are against Christ, you are on the side of Satan rather you believe in him, worship him, or not. I know God is real, as my favorite hymn proclaims, "You ask me how I know H lives, He lives within my heart." It is not Christians who discriminate, but Christ who stated, "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." God is under no obligation to respect other religions. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship.

I'm not against Christ, however I don't believe in him. I think you are putting down every religion but your own. That's really unfair.

 

[BarbB]

I'm not against Christ, however I don't believe in him. I think you are putting down every religion but your own. That's really unfair.

You are on a Christian forum so you might want to get used to it.

I assume you know that Morning Star is another name for Jesus Christ? Unless you are using the name as another name for Satan?

 

[Free_Spirit]

“

Not true - try from 20 to 70 years after Christ's death.”

Well, I’ve personally heard that it was written anywhere from 100 to 300 years after Christ’s death, although I can’t verify that. Nevertheless, even if it was recorded mere decades after his death, there is still plenty of opportunity for misinformation and distortions.

“

Not true - Abraham, Enoch, at a minimum are in heaven. I think (but do not know for sure) that the righteous of God are in heaven with Abraham.”

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” ---John 14:6
Because people did indeed get into heaven before Christ’s crucifixion, does that mean Christ is a liar?

“

They knew they should obey and still didn't.”

They didn’t know it was wrong not to obey, because they had no knowledge of good and evil.

“God did protect them from it as he warned them not to eat from the tree.”

God put this tree in the Garden of Eden, he gave Adam and Eve the nature and opportunity to commit sin, and then he left them ALONE with Satan himself! He all but forced them to eat the fruit!

 

[MorningStar334]

According to the bible, Jesus stated that "He that is not with me is against me." If you are against Christ, you are on the side of Satan rather you believe in him, worship him, or not. I know God is real, as my favorite hymn proclaims, "You ask me how I know H lives, He lives within my heart." It is not Christians who discriminate, but Christ who stated, "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." God is under no obligation to respect other religions. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, the words of someone who says inside the box, never peaking out or steping out. Who has a skewed view of the world.
And the box can't hold forever. Wiccans, pagans and other people won't always agree with you and your religion. We think outside the box. And we have no obligation to sit in your box, as you have none to sit in ours. But if you know what I mean by box, then you know what I dang well mean.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Well, I’ve personally heard that it was written anywhere from 100 to 300 years after Christ’s death, although I can’t verify that. Nevertheless, even if it was recorded mere decades after his death, there is still plenty of opportunity for misinformation and distortions. Here are some websites: http://www.carm.org/ or http://www.christian-thinktank.com/ . They should be able to answer your questions concerning the dates of the Gospels.



“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” ---John 14:6
Because people did indeed get into heaven before Christ’s crucifixion, does that mean Christ is a liar? No, Christ was not a liar. It is my belief that the individuals who died prior to God's Salvation were held in one of two places. Abraham's side or Hell. (Luke 16:19-31) Those at Abraham's side were held there until the atnoning work of Christ. Hebrews 11 tells us that people were considered righteous, prior to Christ, because of their faith.


They didn’t know it was wrong not to obey, because they had no knowledge of good and evil. They knew it was wrong because God told them not to eat of the tree. And when questioned Eve knew not to eat of the tree or she would die.

God put this tree in the Garden of Eden, he gave Adam and Eve the nature and opportunity to commit sin, and then he left them ALONE with Satan himself! He all but forced them to eat the fruit! Free will: Obey God or Disobey God? That is the question, without the tree there would be no choice.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[Brooke]

I also believe that since God made humans in the first place, to live and enjoy the things He created and all, it wouldn't be love to not give us a way out. Ever since Jesus died, He hasn't ever forced anybody to follow Him at all. People might have, but not Him. In the Christian faith it's said that man can't live without God, and apart from Him there is spiritual death, since God is the source of all spiritual life. Remaining connected to Him like a branch on the vine keeps you alive spiritually, or so Jesus said.

Anyway I respect all other religions, just thought I wanted to say that.

 

[Havoc]

An eloquent statement of beliefs Brooke.

And thank you for your respect, it is much appreciated.

 

[ThePhoenix]

You are on a Christian forum so you might want to get used to it.

I assume you know that Morning Star is another name for Jesus Christ? Unless you are using the name as another name for Satan?

Or maybe... he's just using it as a name for a star you can see in the morning - i.e. the sun?