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Vermeulen
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Well then faith is simply believing in something because it brings someone pleasure. Faith is like a pill of happyness then
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Christ Aficionado
Active Member
What if I said the exact problem I have in arguing with non-religious people is that the stories are false until proven true? What they don't realize is that the reason why many of us believe the stories in the Bible are true is because the Bible is full of prophecies that have been fulfilled.Vermeulen said:
Links:
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
http://www.bearvalleycofc.org/articles/Prophetic.html
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Vermeulen
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false untill proven true? And somehow you have a problem with this? You'd rather just believe it for no reason to start then have people try to prove it wrong? yeah i am sure this would work great in regular society and courts
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Well, there are four ways of regarding any report with no supporting evidence:
(1) It's absolutely true
(2) It's absolutely false
(3) It's unprovable
(4) It's based on fact but garbled
The odds are 3-1 in favor of accepting something without proof since the odds are in its favor of being true (this is assuming the person/s doing the reporting are not known for deliberately falsifying stories).
90% of the Bible is historically supported.
90% is scientifically supported.
Therefore the odds are 3-1 in favor of the remaining 10% being true as well.
There are places where the message has been garbled, but the garbling occured in the minds of the recipients of the Word, not in the Word itself. Specifically I cite the B.C. Jews who thought the Messiah would be a military leader who would bring about a political victory just for them and them alone. One can see where they made their mistake -- but one can also see the prophecies were born out exactly in Christ.
(1) It's absolutely true
(2) It's absolutely false
(3) It's unprovable
(4) It's based on fact but garbled
The odds are 3-1 in favor of accepting something without proof since the odds are in its favor of being true (this is assuming the person/s doing the reporting are not known for deliberately falsifying stories).
90% of the Bible is historically supported.
90% is scientifically supported.
Therefore the odds are 3-1 in favor of the remaining 10% being true as well.
There are places where the message has been garbled, but the garbling occured in the minds of the recipients of the Word, not in the Word itself. Specifically I cite the B.C. Jews who thought the Messiah would be a military leader who would bring about a political victory just for them and them alone. One can see where they made their mistake -- but one can also see the prophecies were born out exactly in Christ.
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First, I don't think the bible needs me defending it. I believe it is God's word, and can do just fine without my feeble mind trying to "apologize" for it.
Second, I would like to give my personal reasons for my belief in God and the scriptures...
I was not "spoon fed" my beliefs, as my family were die-hard athiests. I was raised with the ideas of athiesm, evolution, and the idea that Christians were really just fools.
When my wife and I were driving back from a trip God just opened my eyes to Himself. At that very moment He revealed Himself to me and He changed me. From that time He gave me an unquenchable yearning for the bible and the understanding that what is in it is truth.
It is this personal meeting with God that changed me. The fact that i became a new person from that moment testifies to His grace and mercy.
I can't "prove" to you that He exists. How can i make you see Him if you are blind?? It's only through God opening the eyes and revealing Himself that one can know Him.
Isa 42:6-7 - "I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.
When i was an athiest i loved arguing with christians, debating with them and having all the "right" arguments. But you know what -- just because someone is a better debator does not mean they have the truth.
When God revealed Himself to me, all of those arguments didn't matter anymore. When you meet Him, it's a hard thing to debate.
Second, I would like to give my personal reasons for my belief in God and the scriptures...
I was not "spoon fed" my beliefs, as my family were die-hard athiests. I was raised with the ideas of athiesm, evolution, and the idea that Christians were really just fools.
When my wife and I were driving back from a trip God just opened my eyes to Himself. At that very moment He revealed Himself to me and He changed me. From that time He gave me an unquenchable yearning for the bible and the understanding that what is in it is truth.
It is this personal meeting with God that changed me. The fact that i became a new person from that moment testifies to His grace and mercy.
I can't "prove" to you that He exists. How can i make you see Him if you are blind?? It's only through God opening the eyes and revealing Himself that one can know Him.
Isa 42:6-7 - "I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.
When i was an athiest i loved arguing with christians, debating with them and having all the "right" arguments. But you know what -- just because someone is a better debator does not mean they have the truth.
When God revealed Himself to me, all of those arguments didn't matter anymore. When you meet Him, it's a hard thing to debate.
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