Why?

[k4c]

Why is it that people teach that when God uses the Law to point out sin that sin is no longer a sin?

It's like getting a speeding ticket for speeding but once the ticket is paid it's no longer against the law to speed.

 

[Cribstyl]

Why is it that people teach that when God uses the Law to point out sin that sin is no longer a sin?

It's like getting a speeding ticket for speeding but once the ticket is paid it's no longer against the law to speed.

The problem with this question is that no people teach that sin is no longer sin.

It's like saying that the speed limit was posted before cars was ever made...... Or that God commanded against eating from the tree before it was planted.

Demonizing and misrepresenting those who dont agree with you is not spreading the gospel.......

 

[k4c]

The problem with this question is that no people teach that sin is no longer sin.

It's like saying that the speed limit was posted before cars was ever made...... Or that God commanded against eating from the tree before it was planted.

Demonizing and misrepresenting those who dont agree with you is not spreading the gospel.......

The speed limit sign was posted to protect life. Protecting and perserving life is part of our created being.

 

[Cribstyl]

The speed limit sign was posted to protect life. Protecting and perserving life is part of our created being.

Your question tries to hide what I call a theological stunt that you cannot face directly.
The argument is really about which came first sin or the law.

Should we ignor New Testament scriptures that articulated what is also clear in the book of Genensis?
Paul teaches in Rom5 the timeline from Adam to Moses saying...."before the law, sin was in the world"
Where can we find a study of Rom chapter 5?

This Gospel lesson of truth has the power of God to save lives if we dont add to it.
Errors have power to create division, isolation and fear and eventually death.


Your opening statement buy into a theological premise that "sin is trangression of the law". You dont want to hear or acknowledge that sin independant of the ten commandments because of the dominoes about which commandments Lucifer broke, and the creation instituted sabbath, etc.
The partial text (1john3:4 used to establish that theological premise proves that; a)those exact word were never coined by John. b) a partial qoute alone should not establish a doctrine.
c) The context did not establish a timeline is "before" or "after" the law was given.
d) commentary based teaching.


Some basic characteristic of a law is, a) Law is given, b)Law is given to govern a people,territiory, etc.c)the words of a law is binding. d) law is conditional on it's claims and demands......etc.

 

[k4c]

Cribstyl; Your question tries to hide what I call a theological stunt that you cannot face directly. The argument is really about which came first sin or the law.

Righteousness came first because that's how we were created.

I'm getting tired of these discussions. If you what to believe the seventh day wasn't blessed and called holy at creation, that's your free will choice. If you want to believe Christians don't have to obey the Ten Commandments, that's your free will choice. Just don’t get mad when someone steals from you or someone lies to you.

 

[Princessdi]

K4c, I looked again to make sure, but you can't be tired of these discussions as you started this one.

This is why arguing scriptures does not work. Everyone just squares off with the texts and the inpterpretation thats support their doctrine and there is never any concensus. It gets into personal attacks, and no one is blessed or edified, and God is defintiely not glorified by the discussion.

Witnesses people, we are to be witnesses. That which we know first hand. What has God done for your?

 

[Cribstyl]

Righteousness came first because that's how we were created.

I totally agree with that statement, but your understanding of righteousness is directly connected to obedience to the law not doing what God requires of us. The foremost lesson and example of "rigteousness" is of Abraham.
Gen 15:6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
My point in posting those scriptures is we can find lessons (not commentary) teaching us that righteousness is independant of the law. Also proving Abraham did'nt have the law as a condition for righteousness.

I'm getting tired of these discussions. If you what to believe the seventh day wasn't blessed and called holy at creation, that's your free will choice. If you want to believe Christians don't have to obey the Ten Commandments, that's your free will choice. Just don’t get mad when someone steals from you or someone lies to you.

Actually K4c, I was hoping to focus on your topic "Why".
Your OP "implies"
a) God uses the law to point out sin.
b) people teach that sin is not sin.

I had no plans to make this a sabbath day argument.
I was sensitve to what you claim "people teach" and responded to your word.

Let God's word be truth.

 

[k4c]

I totally agree with that statement, but your understanding of righteousness is directly connected to obedience to the law not doing what God requires of us. The foremost lesson and example of "rigteousness" is of Abraham.
Gen 15:6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
My point in posting those scriptures is we can find lessons (not commentary) teaching us that righteousness is independant of the law. Also proving Abraham did'nt have the law as a condition for righteousness.


Actually K4c, I was hoping to focus on your topic "Why".
Your OP "implies"
a) God uses the law to point out sin.
b) people teach that sin is not sin.

I had no plans to make this a sabbath day argument.
I was sensitve to what you claim "people teach" and responded to your word.

Let God's word be truth.

Those who are righteous practice righteousness.

 

[Cribstyl]

K4c, I looked again to make sure, but you can't be tired of these discussions as you started this one.

This is why arguing scriptures does not work. Everyone just squares off with the texts and the inpterpretation thats support their doctrine and there is never any concensus. It gets into personal attacks, and no one is blessed or edified, and God is defintiely not glorified by the discussion.

Witnesses people, we are to be witnesses. That which we know first hand. What has God done for your?

I always appreciate your wisdom thank you for posting.

 

[Cribstyl]

Those who are righteous practice righteousness.

you quoting scripture.....but you're not responding to my replies.

Is keeping the law the only way of righteousness?

 

[Stewartnz]

My point in posting those scriptures is we can find lessons (not commentary) teaching us that righteousness is independant of the law.

The Psalms speak of righteousness, pertaining to the law of God.

"My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments "[are righteousness." (Ps 119:172)

And speaking of John the Baptist's parents, the Bible says, "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." (Luke 1:6)

 

[k4c]

K4c, I looked again to make sure, but you can't be tired of these discussions as you started this one.

I posted my question in a SDA forum with people of like minded faith who have a clear understanding God's word hoping to get their viewpoint not the viewpoint of those who believe sin is no longer sin once it's forgiven. So yes, I am tired of the round and round we go where she stops nobody knows.

 

[k4c]

Why is it the you expect the children of the devil to obey God's commandments?

I guess you're right, my bad...

 

[Kira Light]

I enjoy all of the barely concealed rage on this forum

 

[k4c]

I enjoy all of the barely concealed rage on this forum

Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and sinful enticements that oppose the teaching you have learned. Stay away from them.

 

[Kira Light]

Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and sinful enticements that oppose the teaching you have learned. Stay away from them.

I never realized that verse was talking about me! I guess I'm a pretty bad dude.

 

[k4c]

I never realized that verse was talking about me! I guess I'm a pretty bad dude.

Romans 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

 

[Princessdi]

Come on k4C, you know that once you put it out there, it's out there for all to answer, 3ven if you are looking for specific responses from specific individuals. ALL can answer. Now, you can always disregard those who do not post as you wish, and only answer those who to agree with you.

However, since this forum is for "discussion", I don't know how long or interesting a discussion would be with everyone agreeing on every point, all the time.....I once knew of some people who established an entire forum on that premise. it was not long before their site was nearly dyiing and they were welcoming all those they would not initially allow to join.

I posted my question in a SDA forum with people of like minded faith who have a clear understanding God's word hoping to get their viewpoint not the viewpoint of those who believe sin is no longer sin once it's forgiven. So yes, I am tired of the round and round we go where she stops nobody knows.

 

[k4c]

you quoting scripture.....but you're not responding to my replies.

Is keeping the law the only way of righteousness?

The letter of the Law defines righteousness at it's basic level.

Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

The Bible teaches that God declares one righteous, which leads to a lifestyle of practicing righteousness.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Those who have been declared righteous by God, through the shed blood of Jesus, will practice righteousness as defined by God.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Since the Law defines what is righteous it can point out sin so it remains the basic standard for what sin is. Every sin and crime committed in the world today has it's root in God's Law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Take away the foundation of what righteousness is and righteousness becomes open to private interpretation.

MINNEAPOLIS, Aug. 21 (UPI) - The largest U.S. Lutheran group voted Friday to allow homosexuals in committed relationships to become ministers. Delegates to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America convention voted 559 to 451, The Washington Post reported.

Reporting from Los Angeles and Riverside - The Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles on Saturday elected the first openly gay bishop since the national church lifted a ban that kept gays out of its highest ordained ministry.

Remember, the Law points out sin but it's the Spirit of God who convicts of sin.

 

[Ivan25]

The letter of the Law defines righteousness at it's basic level.

Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

The Bible teaches that God declares one righteous, which leads to a lifestyle of practicing righteousness.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Those who have been declared righteous by God, through the shed blood of Jesus, will practice righteousness as defined by God.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Since the Law defines what is righteous it can point out sin so it remains the basic standard for what sin is. Every sin and crime committed in the world today has it's root in God's Law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Take away the foundation of what righteousness is and righteousness becomes open to private interpretation.

MINNEAPOLIS, Aug. 21 (UPI) - The largest U.S. Lutheran group voted Friday to allow homosexuals in committed relationships to become ministers. Delegates to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America convention voted 559 to 451, The Washington Post reported.

Reporting from Los Angeles and Riverside - The Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles on Saturday elected the first openly gay bishop since the national church lifted a ban that kept gays out of its highest ordained ministry.

Remember, the Law points out sin but it's the Spirit of God who convicts of sin.

Romans 10:1-5 ( KJV )

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and stranger and Love your neighbor as yourself. Isn't what all this boils down too?