Why would god?

[xemssikx]

Today, while sitting in my Art in Everyday Life class, we started to talk about the pictures shown from New Orleans and their effect on the viewer. Everyone said they were hard to look at and they felt sadness about something so horrible happening. We started to go off on religion and how it has an image. Well, I go to a Catholic college but I am not Catholic and at the moment I am questioning whether there really is a God of any sort. The point of my post is that if there really is a God, why or the better question how could he let something as horrible as the flooding in New Orleans happen? It seems like God has just stopped caring if he really does exist. First was the tsunami and now a hurricane. They are shooting looters in New Orleans, which I do not think is right. How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen? I guess the reason it is so hard for me to believe is because it seems like one catastrophe is happening after another. I know you cannot have good without the bad. I know that if you did not have the bad you would not know what is good but the degree of bad is almost unbareable.









Sorry if I posted in the wrong area. I am still new.

 

[psychedelicist]

welcome to CF

I myself have wondered this, but I came to a completely different conclusion. I really have to wonder if a god who protects us from every negative thing that could possibly happen is a good god, you know? It seems like if he was to protect us and make sure nothing bad ever happened to us, it would be somewhat of an insult to us as persons. If you've seen the matrix, for example, when Mr Smith was talking about the first matrix, it was a utopia, and it was a disaster. He concluded that we need suffering to give us meaning. I would say that we need conflict in our lives, suffering being one consequence of that, to give us meaning. If the world was utopian I don't think it could have any real meaning. What would there be to be gained?

Granted, I do not see much that can be gained from the suffering of the evacuees of louisiana, except perhaps a testament to the adaptability of people in the face of disasters like this. But perhaps there does not need to be any meaning at all, except that we are insignificant in comparison to the forces of nature. Perhaps there is nothing to be gained except the re-realization that we do not have the control that we think we do, and that the old cliche "life is fragile" is very true. For those that lost their lives, of course, this now means nothing. But for those that survived, and all the rest of us, I think that there is a valuable lesson to be learned, if nothing else.

 

[jayem]

The technical term for the problem you describe is theodicy. How you justify God's goodness in the face of widespread tragedy, usually involving the death and suffering of the innocent as well as the wicked. There have been many threads on this subject (I started one myself.)

Personally, I haven't yet heard a coherent and convincing theological answer to the question. But then, I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in an omnipotent and omni-benevolent diety. I think the most logical explanation is that the universe operates solely by natural forces with no reason, purpose, or direction by any supernatural entity. Natural disasters are just part of a mechanistic world. But I recognize that viewpoint is too psychologically uncomfortable for most people.

 

[NHI]

These questions tend to imply a lot of extra stuff in a lot of cases.
Most which I feel to be irrelevant, inane, or hyperbolic.

When talking about terrible, horrible, good and bad, some things should be put in alternative perspectives.

One is people die. Death is inevitable. Death is not always "murder". And death is not necessarily terrible, horrible or bad, depending on your faith.



Anything can happen to those who are willed to bring a positive outlook to the situation, whether its to bring unity, strenghten community, character, or bring out purveyers of truth, love, and hope.

 

[Blackguard_]

The technical term for the problem you describe is theodicy.

Isn't it the "problem of Evil" with a theodicy being a reason for God to allow evil?

Personally, I haven't yet heard a coherent and convincing theological answer to the question.

hey, the view God as creator has the right to do whatever he wants with his creation/property as Romans 9 says is coherent, but I recognize that viewpoit is too psychologically uncomfortable for most.

And God is all-powerfull and so has control over what constitutes good and evil and so has the power to delcare whatever he does as good even if humans think it is evil or bad.

 

[Followers4christ]

Today, while sitting in my Art in Everyday Life class, we started to talk about the pictures shown from New Orleans and their effect on the viewer. Everyone said they were hard to look at and they felt sadness about something so horrible happening. We started to go off on religion and how it has an image. Well, I go to a Catholic college but I am not Catholic and at the moment I am questioning whether there really is a God of any sort. The point of my post is that if there really is a God, why or the better question how could he let something as horrible as the flooding in New Orleans happen? It seems like God has just stopped caring if he really does exist. First was the tsunami and now a hurricane. They are shooting looters in New Orleans, which I do not think is right. How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen? I guess the reason it is so hard for me to believe is because it seems like one catastrophe is happening after another. I know you cannot have good without the bad. I know that if you did not have the bad you would not know what is good but the degree of bad is almost unbareable.









Sorry if I posted in the wrong area. I am still new.

The bible says the last days will be terrible times and God will not intervene until His second coming.Its going to get alot worse before it gets better (Read the Book of Revelation). Matthew 24:30 "At that time the sign of the son of man will appear in the sky,and all the nations of the earth will mourn.They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of the sky,with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,and they will gather his elect from the four winds,from one end of the heavens to the other." 1 Corinthians 15:55-58 "Where,o death,is your victory? Where,o death,is your sting? The sting of death is sin,and the power of sin is the law.But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." God Bless

Matthew 24:7-9 "Nation will rise against nation,and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.All these are the beginning of birth pains."

2 Timothy 3:2-5 "People will be lovers of themselves,lovers of money,boastful,proud,abusive,disobedient to their parents,ungrateful,unholy,without love,unforgiving,slanderous,without self control,brutal,not lovers of the good,treacherous,rash,conceited,lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god."

 

[xemssikx]

I understand that God, saying there is one, should not protect us from everything and without some bad we will not know what is truely good. I was raised as a Christian but I have questioned the beliefs so much that i do not believe. Now i consider myself an Athesist. I find the idea of no God more comforting then having a God that allows death, pain and suffering to fall upon innocent people.

 

[Mereni]

How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen? I guess the reason it is so hard for me to believe is because it seems like one catastrophe is happening after another. I know you cannot have good without the bad. I know that if you did not have the bad you would not know what is good but the degree of bad is almost unbareable.
Sorry if I posted in the wrong area. I am still new.

I'm new too.
I hear you. I wonder those things myself. Why all the suffering? Why all of the pain and death? My college starts up next week again, but I have already seen on the syllibis for one of my classes, that we're going to be talking about if mankind is responsible for the hurricanes, tsunami's, diseases, famine, and all that. You say that you're starting not to believe in a god because of this, so I have to ask, who are you gonna blame if you stop believing in a god? If you don't believe in a god, then you have to blame the humans themselves for destroying the ozone, the sea's, the rainforests, and the rest. Right? So why not just blame humans now. I wouldn't give up on something that means so much to me, just because humans keep messing things up. Hey and sometimes it's just nature, coincidence. That's my thought. I don't know where I am with religion and all that, but I am looking for an answer. I can't see how blaming a god would help this world make more sense. You get what I mean? Hey, hit me up if you want to talk, newbie to newbie.

 

[xemssikx]

I see where you are saying I should not stop believing in God because of the natural disasters but that is not the reason I am not believing. I find more comfort in it being the cause of humans and nature. I do not like to believe that God or a higher power has control over my life. I have question my belief in God for some time now and tonight's class just made me think a little more about why things happen. I guess I need proof of God. I cannot just believe in something that cannot be proven to be real.


I go to a Catholic school and I will soon have to take religion classes so maybe through those classes I will find a reason but as of yet i have not.


Anytime you want to message me it will be cool. I am always willing to talk.

:o)

 

[Followers4christ]

I understand that God, saying there is one, should not protect us from everything and without some bad we will not know what is truely good. I was raised as a Christian but I have questioned the beliefs so much that i do not believe. Now i consider myself an Athesist. I find the idea of no God more comforting then having a God that allows death, pain and suffering to fall upon innocent people.

If you want to blame someone about the suffering,pain and death blame Adam and Eve.God made paridise for Adem and Eve.But when Eve decieved Adam and disobeyed God Sin was released into the world.Many years after people sinned so much that God killed everyone,But he saved his followers Noah and his family.He promised he would never kill everyone by a flood ever again.People who sinned back then went to hell.But when Jesus came into the world and was percuted,beaten,whipped and was crucified for our sins.He didn't have to die for us but he did out of love for us all.The arch angel Lucifer who rebelled against God,who decieve Eve,who later Eve decieved Adam brought sin in to the world.Sin is the cause of death,suffering and pain.


I can't help you to become a christian,thats what you have to figure out on your own.But i will always be glad to answer any of your questions and give you some guidence. God Bless


Romans 10:9"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.

Acts 2:21"And everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved."


Romans 6:23"For the wages of sin is death,but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 3:16"For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son,that Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world,but to save the world through him."

1 John 1:9"If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Romans 3:22"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Galatians 5:24"Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

Romans 10:17"Consequently,faith comes hearing the message,and the message is heard through the word of Christ."

John 5:24"I tell you the truth ,whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned he has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 10:12"For there is no difference between jew and gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

2 Corinthians 5:17"Therefore,if anyone is in Christ,he is a new creation the old has gone the new has come."

1 Corinthians 15:55-58 "Where,o death,is your victory? Where,o death,is your sting? The sting of death is sin,and the power of sin is the law.But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Cleany]

how could he let something as horrible as the flooding in New Orleans happen?

perhaps the answer, if there is one, requires years of dedication to him to find out? is it important enough to learn?

 

[Cleany]

oh and try to ignore answers that use either bible quotes or the word "sin".

 

[Blackguard_]

how could he let something as horrible as the flooding in New Orleans happen?.......................oh and try to ignore answers that use either bible quotes or the word "sin".

How about becasue God is the malavolent all-powerful Creator who destroys and unleashes suffering according to his whim?

Or, Evil and Suffering are part of God's Divine Plan to show His Goodness and Wisdom unto His Glory because knows even better things will come form the bad things?

 

[Followers4christ]

oh and try to ignore answers that use either bible quotes or the word "sin".

How else find out the anwsers.Then the bible which was written by God through His apostles?you cant try and understand God if you dont read the Bible and by saying ignore my anwsers because i quote the bible but yet say to "perhaps the answer, if there is one, requires years of dedication to him to find out? is it important enough to learn?" The anwsers are in the bible.God Bless

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 "All Scriptures is God Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,correcting and training the righteousness."

2 PETER 1:20 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation."



Joshua 1:8"Do not let this Book of the law depart from your mouth,meditate on it day and night,so that you may be careful to do everything written in it.Then you will be prosperous and successful."

 

[vfr]

One of our species peculiarities is we always look for an enemy to blame things on. The bible tells us mans way is not Gods way. In realty, much of what happens on earth is natures way. We should always remember that we do not control nature, it controls us. And even the atheist must bow to nature in the end. No reason to blame everything on God. Egocentricity is another disease of our human species. All problems are created in the mind and what is termed 'bad" for us is sometimes "good" for another species. But we only look as far as our own little world.

V (Male)


For access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com.

ANY OPINION EXPRESSED HERE IS THAT OF MY OWN AND IS BASED ON MY INTERPRETATION OF MY CHRISTIAN - BUDDHIST BELIEFS AND IS NOT THE OPINION, RECOMMENDATION OR BELIEF OF ANY GROUP OR ORGANIZATION.

COMMENTS REQUIRING A RESPONSE SHOULD BE SENT DIRECT.

 

[Cleany]

How else find out the anwsers.Then the bible which was written by God through His apostles?you cant try and understand God if you dont read the Bible and by saying ignore my anwsers because i quote the bible but yet say to "perhaps the answer, if there is one, requires years of dedication to him to find out? is it important enough to learn?" The anwsers are in the bible.God Bless

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 "All Scriptures is God Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,correcting and training the righteousness."

2 PETER 1:20 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation."



Joshua 1:8"Do not let this Book of the law depart from your mouth,meditate on it day and night,so that you may be careful to do everything written in it.Then you will be prosperous and successful."

here is a short story to explain what i think is happening here ...

there is a factory, which is owned by a man, his son works for him, learning the factory business, as an apprentice. many, many families work in the factory, and are dependant on the income from it to survive.

one day there is an accident at the factory and several people die and are horribly injured. friends and family of the injured and deceased come to the owners office for help and to find out what happened, but the owner is away. so they come to the owners son for an explaination.

the son panics, his father is away and he doesnt know what happened. he feels that he needs to try to explain what might have happened, but also to defend his father. he goes to the filing cabinet and retrieves the insurance liability documents and the machinary manuals.

faced with accusations of negligence, all he can do it quote the manuals to try to explain what happened, and quote the insurance policy to deflect the fault away from his father.

everyone feels better but nobody is any the wiser as to what actually happened.

this is basically what is happening. it isnt fair for people to blame god for disasters if they do not praise him for the good things in life. it isnt right, though it is understandable, to try to blame god for it.

but it also isnt fair for anybody to speak for god in matters like this, actually it is quite stupid not to tread very, very carefully and show compassion when there are so many emotions involved.


as for the bible. it is a personal opinion, or it may be a matter of faith, that the bible was "written by god" in the manner that you suggest. i am a christian and i do not believe that, along with millions of other christians, and billions of other people. whatever you believe it is substantially misguided in my opinion to cite the bible as if it were fact (notwithstanding matters of interpretation) when talking to people who dont have the same faith as you, especially in a situation where people are upset and are looking for answers.

 

[Phred]

this is basically what is happening. it isnt fair for people to blame god for disasters if they do not praise him for the good things in life. it isnt right, though it is understandable, to try to blame god for it.

That goes both ways you know. It's also not fair to praise God for all the good in the world but absolve him of responsibility when it comes to the bad.

but it also isnt fair for anybody to speak for god in matters like this, actually it is quite stupid not to tread very, very carefully and show compassion when there are so many emotions involved.

It's not fair for anyone to speak for God... EVER.

as for the bible. it is a personal opinion, or it may be a matter of faith, that the bible was "written by god" in the manner that you suggest. i am a christian and i do not believe that, along with millions of other christians, and billions of other people. whatever you believe it is substantially misguided in my opinion to cite the bible as if it were fact (notwithstanding matters of interpretation) when talking to people who dont have the same faith as you, especially in a situation where people are upset and are looking for answers.

Well said!

.
​

 

[Followers4christ]

but it also isnt fair for anybody to speak for god in matters like this, actually it is quite stupid not to tread very, very carefully and show compassion when there are so many emotions involved.


as for the bible. it is a personal opinion, or it may be a matter of faith, that the bible was "written by god" in the manner that you suggest. i am a christian and i do not believe that, along with millions of other christians, and billions of other people. whatever you believe it is substantially misguided in my opinion to cite the bible as if it were fact (notwithstanding matters of interpretation) when talking to people who dont have the same faith as you, especially in a situation where people are upset and are looking for answers.

First Im not speaking for God,God Who has wrote this,He wrote the anwsers in the Bible.If someone ask "How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen?" And the anwsers are in the Bible i will always say what God Wrote about this subject.The Bible was made for a purpose to save souls through Jesus Christ and to help people in need,Also help people who are looking for anwsers.

The Bible is fact.Also If all of us Christians were to stay silent Because someone were a different religion what purpose would we serve? The Bible says to Preach The good news of our Lord jesus Christ to everyone who will listen.God Bless



MARK 16:15"Then he told them go in to all the world and preach to all creation"

Matthew 28:19"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the name in the name the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything i have commanded you.And surely i am with you always to the very end of the age"

Matthew 24:14"And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testamony to all nations,and then the end will come"

 

[Arkanin]

I've come to the sincere conclusion that an explosion marked the origin of the universe, life evolved, and that belief in god evolved as well. I'm honestly convinced that whether we like it or not, these are natural disasters, and no angry deity is smiting us, nor is our good fortune the result of a happy deity smiling on us. I came to those conclusions after finding the theory of evolution very feasible, and rejecting Christianity.

Many Christians accept both the theory of evolution and Christianity, so my conclusion obviously isn't the only one. I simply find that it results in way fewer philosophical problems, such as the problem of evil, and serves as the one that has the least iterative complexity in metaphysical realms.

First Im not speaking for God,God Who has wrote this,He wrote the anwsers in the Bible.If someone ask "How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen?" And the anwsers are in the Bible i will always say what God Wrote about this subject.The Bible was made for a purpose to save souls through Jesus Christ and to help people in need,Also help people who are looking for anwsers.

Actually, the bible was written by a few scores of authors. So, they're the ones who are speaking for god when you put it in that light and honestly, I still think a person ought not claim they know what God wants, being an infinitessimal speck.

 

[Cleany]

First Im not speaking for God,God Who has wrote this,

i disagree

He wrote the anwsers in the Bible.

i disagree

If someone ask "How could a God that is so great let something so terrible happen?" And the anwsers are in the Bible i will always say what God Wrote about this subject.

you would, in my opinion, be doing them a disservice

The Bible was made for a purpose to save souls through Jesus Christ and to help people in need

which bible? which version? what about the process of "making" the bible, did it magically appear? how did christians in the first 300 years after christ cope without it?

Also help people who are looking for anwsers.

answers to what?

The Bible is fact.

your personal opinion.

Also If all of us Christians were to stay silent Because someone were a different religion what purpose would we serve?

what has that to do with the bible?

The Bible says to Preach The good news of our Lord jesus Christ to everyone who will listen.

and what, exactly, is that good news? is it possible to do this without the bible?