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That one verse cannot contradict all the other vss. pertaining to salvation. Show me any other vs, two more would be better, where Jesus or any NT writer says all a sinner has to do is help one needy person one time and they will instantly be saved. I have asked this more than once. See e.g. Matthew 7:21-23.The analogy is Jesus comparing himself to those in need, that whatever you did for someone, you did for him. But that doesn't change the conclusion that those who do whatever for one person go to everlasting life. Matt 25:46 has a conclusion that you half accept and half reject.
I'm not saying what it can or can't do. I'm saying you're hanging your hat on one half of a verse, and saying the other have can't mean what it says.That one verse cannot contradict all the other vss. pertaining to salvation. Show me any other vs, two more would be better, where Jesus or any NT writer says all a sinner has to do is help one needy person one time and they will instantly be saved. I have asked this more than once. See e.g. Matthew 7:21-23.
I got my interpretation of Matthew 25:46 from the Eastern Greek Orthodox translation of the N.T. see link p. 96. Not some biased denominational "scholar" online, Their language has been Greek for 2 millenia +/- I am quite certain they are more knowledgeable than anyone you can quote.I'm not saying what it can or can't do. I'm saying you're hanging your hat on one half of a verse, and saying the other have can't mean what it says.
Like it or not, either the whole conclusionary verse means what it says, or the whole verse doesn't mean what it says.
Colossians 2:8 comes to mind. The human mind can rationalize away things it doesn't like in the Bible.In other words you want to post your unsupported opinion without having it questioned or refuted. Where is sinful man told to use our biased, limited reasoning to explain God's word? You conclude "using scripture only" although you have not quoted one vs. of scripture yourself.
I will take Jesus' word for it.
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left vs. 41] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”[EOB, p. 96]…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, linked below, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
…..I doubt there is anyone better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.
Link to EOB online:
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)archive.org
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.[EOB, p. 518]In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
…..Some badly informed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
Sorry, that is impossible, both “prune” and “correction” are verbs. “Kolasis” is a noun. A noun cannot be translated as a verb.
Also according to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
The word “correction” occurs one time in the N.T.
2 Timothy 3:16 ἐπανόρθωσις/epanorthosis. It looks nothing like kolasis.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the native Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of uninterrupted Greek scholarship, are more than competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete Greek words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Much as English speaking scholars today know the meaning of obsolete English words which occur in, e.g. the 1611 KJV and can define them correctly.
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Matthew 7:21-23(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Neither the Father, Himself, nor Jesus, Himself, ever said that all mankind will be saved, or enter the kingdom of heaven.
As a matter of fact, Jesus said, “Not every one …shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;” Then Jesus said, “Many” [NOT a few, “will say to me in that day,” i.e. Judgement day, “Lord, Lord, have we not … in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Then Jesus will say to those “many” “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” When Jesus says “never” He means “never” not someday by and by.
Nice semi-clever cop-out that does not address anything.Colossians 2:8 comes to mind. The human mind can rationalize away things it doesn't like in the Bible.
It addresses the arguments presented in the OP of this thread. I was actually supporting your post I quoted saying the persons argument fit the description Paul used in Colossians 2:8- the human reasoning and philosophies of men.Nice semi-clever cop-out that does not address anything.
God is a God of absolute, perfect, and precise justice. People try to accuse God of not being just, but that simply is not true. If we are able to figure things out or not. By faith we believe that God is good, right, and true.Why would God have to punish the wicked for eternity?
Mea culpa my bad.It addresses the arguments presented in the OP of this thread. I was actually supporting your post I quoted saying the persons argument fit the description Paul used in Colossians 2:8- the human reasoning and philosophies of men.
Romans 4:15Just because Jesus talks about dire consequences for sin doesn't necessarily entail "eternal conscious torment" for people that happen to belong to the wrong religion. It's true I can't prove that in some positivist manner, but I don't think the case for the classical western view of perdition is iron-clad.
I have a hard time believing there were modern Homo sapiens for around 70,000 years and they all went to Hell simply for not believing in Jesus. Likewise I have trouble believing that the tens of billions of people that have lived since the time of Christ, and never been in fellowship with any of the Apostles or their successors, have all gone to Hell. If God is so offended by "wrong belief", why are there so many religions?
That doesn't answer why for an eternityGod is a God of absolute, perfect, and precise justice. People try to accuse God of not being just, but that simply is not true. If we are able to figure things out or not. By faith we believe that God is good, right, and true.
Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it. See my post this thread.That doesn't answer why for an eternity
I could not do that. I lived too much of my life without God being a part of it, almost 26 years. I would never want to go back to that again. I was engaged to a girl and God told me IF I married her I would be on my own and that He would not be there to help me. So I did leave her. She found someone else and that marriage did not work out for them so they got a divorce. For me, there is no reason to get married if you can not make it work. Sometimes we are just better off being friends with people and not letting it get serious.If he's not with God, then he's on his own way to live his own eternity without God's presence.
That's how we got here. Christians have been doing it from the beginning. Look at the head covering. People didn't like is so they did away with it. It's simple, just claim it's a cultural thing and voila, it's gone. Look at Baptism. It didn't fit the Reformation doctrine of Faith Alone. Just claim it's an outward symbol of an inward reality and voila, it's gone. I could go on and on with Biblical doctrines that Christians have cast by the wayside because they didn't like what it said.Colossians 2:8 comes to mind. The human mind can rationalize away things it doesn't like in the Bible.
How did you draw those conclusions?What is the greatest form of a Savior ? A God who saves mankind from annihilation ? Or a God who saves mankind from eternal torment ??
God is the greatest form of Savior. Eternal punishment/torment in Hell shows just how severe rejecting Jesus is. And shouldn't rejecting Jesus have the most severe consequences ? Or is Jesus not worthy enough of that type of severity?
Atheist's believe in annihilation. They don't believe in a afterlife. They believe the afterlife is exactly like it was before conception. So believing in annihilation is extremely atheistic in a way. And what is so bad about annihilation?
Nothing. Because nothing exists in annihilation. Annihilation is basically the same thing as Resing In Peace. Resting In Peace is what atheists believe happens. Resting In Peace is grace . Resting In Peace is a blessing. Resting In Peace is a license to sin . A punishment that you can't remember or feel is no punishment at all.
How did you draw those conclusions?
What about what the Bible says?Common sense and from reading/hearing other people's views
What about what the Bible says?
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