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Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6All is already good in heaven. Evil isn't allowed.
So how do you explain Satan? He apparently chose to rebel against God, even though he was previously an angel in heaven.Nobody is dumb enough to choose evil in heaven lol.
He is hinting at that, I can tell.
You can disagree, but raising the same point again and again for the sole purpose of mocking God, is not mere disagreement.
I have no problem dealing with people who have a point of disagreement. I do have issues when people are hell bent on getting personally offensive against a Deity whom they neither acknowledge nor understand. Furthermore, such offences are not even grounded on any true examination of how the Deity is represented in history. That is sacrilege, outrightly demeaning and shows a basic lack of respect for an area of reality where one lacks knowledge about.
If you're willing to grant me the point that I can grasp concepts well, then perhaps you should listen to what I'm saying.
1) If you are an omniscient being, that means you know everything.
2) Since you know everything, you know what choices people will make.
3) If you engineer the circumstances knowing in advance what choices people will make in a given situation, then their choice is inevitable based on how you set things in motion.
Therefore:
4) God must have known in advance that Adam and Eve would have eaten the fruit based on the design he created and the situation they found themselves in. It was inevitable, Adam and Eve could not have chosen any other way.
Again, that's not what the bible says. Genesis 3:4-7 directly contradicts your argument here, the serpent says eating the fruit will not kill them, and "your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:7 confirms what the serpent said to be true.
Furthermore, in Genesis 3:22 it says: And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
That directly shows the act of eating the fruit is what gives Adam and Eve these abilities. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gives you knowledge of good and evil. Eating from the tree of life gives you eternal life.
P.S. As an interesting sidenote, Genesis 22 is one of the old holdover verses from the time the Jews were a polytheistic society. "The man has now become like one of us"... it's plural, denoting more than one god in a pantheon. This makes no sense if your god is the only god, but it did make sense in the time before Judaism evolved into a monotheistic religion.
Here's an intro to the ancient Caananite religion, which eventually spawned Judaism (and included Yahweh as the god of Israel within the pantheon, however he was not the supreme god) Some books of the bible find their origins in this era of the religion, and there are some telltale signs within those books of their original basis. Canaanite religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you're willing to grant me the point that I can grasp concepts well, then perhaps you should listen to what I'm saying.
1) If you are an omniscient being, that means you know everything.
2) Since you know everything, you know what choices people will make.
3) If you engineer the circumstances knowing in advance what choices people will make in a given situation, then their choice is inevitable based on how you set things in motion.
Therefore:
4) God must have known in advance that Adam and Eve would have eaten the fruit based on the design he created and the situation they found themselves in. It was inevitable, Adam and Eve could not have chosen any other way.
Yeah, you have presented that framework countless times, to which I already refuted countless times with the fact that Adam and Eve was specifically instructed not to cause the Fall to happen by God Himself. Are you not willing to acknowledge this glaring fact, which is right in your face?
So, no choice in heaven, right?
All is already good in heaven. Evil isn't allowed.
Nobody is dumb enough to choose evil in heaven lol.
That is easy. Choice.
God does not force Himself on you or me or anybody for that matter.
You and me and everybody, are given the choice to rejoice in good or evil.
OT indicated that He did. The Flood, made the Sun stood still so Joshua can finish the killing, Conquest of the Promised Land..........
That is judgment on evil, and punishment for unrepentant wickedness.
As a Judge, God does need to administer justice on people who have decided to do nothing but destroy others. It is unjust to let the wicked harm others forever without intervention.
Nobody is dumb enough to choose evil in heaven lol.
That is judgment on evil, and punishment for unrepentant wickedness. As a Judge, God does need to administer justice on people who have decided to do nothing but destroy others. It is unjust to let the wicked harm others forever without intervention.
I find Deism to be resonating with me lately, and if a god should exist...he allowed humans to do as they wish. With consequences. I don't see it as flawed, I see that as perfection ...as in, reaping what we sow is a rather perfect thing.
Sounds good idealistically, but I don't see it being just in real life.
I often see no consequences for people who deserve them and negative things happening to good people.
I don't think the 9 million children who die each year suffering before the age of five, is something all those children deserved.
That is because God wants wicked people to become good as much as He wants good people to continue being good. Some people are like that, they need to make mistakes to learn, just like how some children will still play with fire until they burn themselves or others. It is inevitable that when they make mistakes, they cause harm to others, even death. But God has allowed mistakes to that extent because He has power to restore life to those who were killed. If He did not have that power He would not allow such things to happen because ultimately He wants people to live.
I don't recall any of those people asking for God's help. . . So they were forced.
Sorry, that explanation just doesn't resonate with me. You can believe it though.
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