Why We Should not Pray to the Saints

[Trogool]

1. Even the Catholic church forbids its members to pray to living people asking them to interceded for them with God.

The Catholic Church has something against prayer requests? That's news to me.

 

[Knee V]

That's a lot of man's reasoning totally devoid of Scriptural support. There is one mediator; the man Christ Jesus.

I said nothing of mediators, positively or negatively.

 

[washedagain]

Why is this a requirement in your belief ?

I don't know... other than PAUL says to pray for ONE ANOTHER.

Shruggs shoulders.

Let ne know when your pray for Mary.

 

[justinangel]

Even the Catholic church forbids its members to pray to living people asking them to interceded for them with God.

Catholics are not forbidden to ask other people to pray for them. What makes you say that?

The Bible condemns all communication with the dead in Isaiah 8:19-20.

The text says that the Jews should ask God for direction instead of fortune tellers dead in sin. Moreover, the Jews have the law to serve as a moral guide, so there is no need to communicate with the dead for guidance. The Bible does condemn necromancy, the practice of summoning the dead to appear for the sake of receiving information from beyond the grave. But that's a different story. I fail to see the connection.

There is no reason for NT saints to pray to the dead asking them for favors. Not even if while doing so they agree to refer to the dead as the "Dead in Christ" as we see in 1Thess 4.

We are one family in Christ supernaturally linked together even beyond death (Eph 3:14-15). Christ is the head, and we the members (both the living and the dead) are the body, which is the Church (Eph 1:22-23; 5:23-32). We are all united in the love of Christ, which death cannot separate us from (Rom 8:35-39). We read in John 15:1-6 that Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The branches that are cut off and thrown into the fire are the members who have died in sin and failed to reach heaven. They are no longer living members of the body of Christ. But we can turn to the good members, who are still living or alive in Christ as part of the vine, for divine favours that originate from the head whether they exist in heaven or on earth. The "dead in Christ" are alive, although they are disembodied souls awaiting the resurrection and the redemption of their bodies on the last day.

"What is more timely and more excellent than that those who are still here should believe that the departed do live, and that they have not retreated into nothingness, but that they exist and are alive with the Master."
St. Epiphanius, Panarion 75:8 (A.D. 377)

PAX

 

[Thekla]

I don't know... other than PAUL says to pray for ONE ANOTHER.

Shruggs shoulders.

Let ne know when your pray for Mary.

We pray for those who are no longer in this life, but present with God, daily.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Sometimes I wonder with all of the people praying to the saints how they are able to handle it....

 

[Knee V]

Sometimes I wonder with all of the people praying to the saints how they are able to handle it....

Hopefully we'll all find out some day.

 

[justinangel]

Sometimes I wonder with all of the people praying to the saints how they are able to handle it....

The saints in heaven no longer exist in physical time and space, so they aren't as constrained as we are. Meanwhile the nature of being in heaven remains a mystery, but St. John tells us in his letter that when we get to heaven we shall be like Jesus in a glorified state. The saints in heaven are, so to speak, super-human and unfettered by the physical limitations that mark our existence in this life.

PAX

 

[Ortho_Cat]

The saints in heaven no longer exist in physical time and space, so they aren't as constrained as we are. Meanwhile the nature of being in heaven remains a mystery, but St. John tells us in his letter that when we get to heaven we shall be like Jesus in a glorified state. The saints in heaven are, so to speak, super-human and unfettered by the physical limitations that mark our existence in this life.

PAX

yep, this.

 

[jackmt]

The saints in heaven have no need to supplicate and petition. So why ask this question?

PAX

You tout the propriety of communing with the dead. Do they commune with you?

 

[Trogool]

You tout the propriety of communing with the dead. Do they commune with you?

Um, no, he said nothing like that. What are you talking about?

 

[jackmt]

We pray for those who are no longer in this life, but present with God, daily.

If they are present with God and not constrained by our sinful world and nature, why do they need your prayers?

 

[Trogool]

If they are present with God and not constrained by our sinful world and nature, why do they need your prayers?

"need"? Why are you using "need"? Do you really only pray when there is "need"?

 

[jackmt]

"need"? Why are you using "need"? Do you really only pray when there is "need"?

Fine. How can they benefit from your prayers on their behalf? Their perfection in Christ is fully realized.

 

[jackmt]

Um, no, he said nothing like that. What are you talking about?

So then, you think it improper to commune with the dead?

 

[Trogool]

Fine. How can they benefit from your prayers on their behalf? Their perfection in Christ is fully realized.

So? Is that any reason not to pray for them? I honestly don't understand your mindset: only do things if we "need" to or if we can "benefit"? The Church is like a family, shouldn't we all be praying for each other and conversing even with those who are with God and whose salvation is fulfilled?

 

[Trogool]

So then, you think it improper to commune with the dead?

Your question has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[jackmt]

So? Is that any reason not to pray for them? I honestly don't understand your mindset: only do things if we "need" to or if we can "benefit"? The Church is like a family, shouldn't we all be praying for each other and conversing even with those who are with God and whose salvation is fulfilled?

What is the benefit for them or for you to pray "for" (i.e., for the benefit of) those who are perfected? Or if you prefer, why do you pray "for" them?

 

[Trogool]

What is the benefit for them or for you to pray "for" (i.e., for the benefit of) those who are perfected? Or if you prefer, why do you pray "for" them?

Because they are my brothers and sisters, and I'm supposed to love them... I hope you don't calculate your interactions with your loved ones in terms of how you'll benefit.

 

[jackmt]

Your question has nothing to do with this thread.

So you will play your word games and tell me those who have died are not dead.