Why we aren't healed...

[Willie T]

Why when healing is the subject do so many place the blame on the person needing the healing? I've always been puzzled by that. They didn't do this, or they didn't do that right, they prayed amiss, they didn't seek out someone for forgiveness, etc. There is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus. Why allow such teaching to continue?

Did this go on in Jesus’ day? Of course. Will it always be around? Probably. Just have nothing to do with a group who does that.

Why support such fellowships?

Do you? I doubt it. Then you aren’t supporting that.

This is not a blame game. This is why I have turned away from most everything within the charismatic teachings. The ask, seek, knock concept is harrassing. The confession brings possession concept is maniacal at best. These teachings have made monsters out of so many well intentioned Christians. It must stop. It's time poorly spent to allow those thoughts to overpower anyone's quest for healing. The "we were healed" concept goes as far as to say once you have prayed to be healed, the rest is merely a "confession of faith." They say you don't have to pray that prayer again. Discipleship is one thing, tormenting by doctrine should be punishable.

I can’t speak to this… never seen it.

Why spend time with Healing concert services when there are scores of hospitals that need attention? It's all so ridiculous and money plays a heavy role in much of it anymore.

I don’t know what a “Healing concert” is, but we do most healing somewhere out on the street. Hospitals? Yes, sometimes our individuals (not groups, because you’ll usually get kicked out by the administration) do go and pray for healing in hospitals. But God’s main purpose is not just fixing bodies. And a healing in a private room in a hospital promotes very little beyond the credit that the hospital would take. God wants the glory in healing. And He intends that glory to lead, not only the one healed, but also other witnesses, to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus through any healing.

Money? You’ve seen people pay for healing? Frankly, I can’t remember any healing activity that didn’t COST us money. Even if it is no more than gas money to go downtown, or lights and A/C and other building costs if it was in our church building.

 

[MikeBigg]

Willie_t,

I think "healing concert" is a reference to a healing service where there is a guitar based worship band and stage lights etc. I've even been to some with smoke machines.

The thing you couldn't comment on is very "word of faith". Once you have prayed and because the bible talks about healing in the present tense, you have been healed. If you are still sick you need to keep declaring that you are healed. As I say, very word of faith.

The money thing is to do with healing evangelists during their meetings usually have a collection and will often ask for money, not for healing, but as evidence of faith or a life laid down. Again this is often seen with WoF preachers - Morris Cerrullo comes to mind.

I, like you, see more people healed on the streets than in meetings, so don't usually get caught up with this kind of teaching. Also, Vineyard won't have it as part of their teaching either, which is why you haven't come across it.

One thing, though - before WoF is written off in this area - I guess you use commanding type prayers in healing (?) Well, this is part of WoF teachings.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Norah63]

Jesus taught us to pray, Thy kingdom come thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Is there sickness in heaven? Then we can recieve what was paid for at the cross here on earth.
Our lack of agreement is our lack, not the will of Heavenly Father.
And we don't need to beat ourselves up for lack of what we need. Just spend a lifetime learning to agree with what has been paid for. When Jesus said it is finished, it really was.

 

[CGL1023]

God is the healer to everyone who will believe. The reason your friend wasn't delivered by the power of God, was,
[1] Wrong teaching on healing.
[2] Wrong believing. which comes from wrong teaching. If your friend knew the truth and believed it, she would have been delivered.
God is a God of compassion and wants to heal everyone,
"By His stripes you WERE HEALED" 1 Pet 2: 24. Note, WERE is past tense.
As far as God is concerned we were healed when Jesus was whipped open for our healing, al we have to do is believe and receive.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I would add that we cannot prematurely judge the effectiveness of our prayers. We are, by many NT scriptures, assured that what we ask in prayer, we receive. There is no schedule as to when the prayers are answered. This calls for patience. Recall Abraham not losing hope as he waited for the impossible to happen; that of a 100 yr old man becoming a father; ref Romans 4.

 

[Aibrean]

you should tell that to the woman who touched Jesus cloak - she had spent all her money on doctors and still not been healed. (Luke 8).

Of course. That's because it was God's will that she wasn't healed. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen this miracle in the Bible. It was to further God's kingdom and message. Sometimes not being healed accomplishes the same task.

 

[Aibrean]

Do you mean God's permissive will. Perhaps some are not healed until they eat the fruit from the tree of life.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Revelation 22:2 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bore twelve manner of fruit, and yielded its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were[/FONT] for the healing of the nations.

No, I see it as sovereign. Healing isn't a matter of our making choices. It's whether healing will fulfill God's ultimate plan.

Also, there are two types of healing and they are easily confused with in the Bible. There is physical (ailments) and spiritual (leading us toward salvation).

Sometimes our lack of physical healing leads others to spiritual healing. In other words, healing will be done, just not to us directly.

If we are looking at the Lord's Prayer for instance, it's "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" which I see as sovereign.

 

[Aibrean]

Yes, I believe so and most especially given the context (Isaiah 6).

 

[now faith]

Willie_t,

I think "healing concert" is a reference to a healing service where there is a guitar based worship band and stage lights etc. I've even been to some with smoke machines.

The thing you couldn't comment on is very "word of faith". Once you have prayed and because the bible talks about healing in the present tense, you have been healed. If you are still sick you need to keep declaring that you are healed. As I say, very word of faith.

The money thing is to do with healing evangelists during their meetings usually have a collection and will often ask for money, not for healing, but as evidence of faith or a life laid down. Again this is often seen with WoF preachers - Morris Cerrullo comes to mind.

I, like you, see more people healed on the streets than in meetings, so don't usually get caught up with this kind of teaching. Also, Vineyard won't have it as part of their teaching either, which is why you haven't come across it.

One thing, though - before WoF is written off in this area - I guess you use commanding type prayers in healing (?) Well, this is part of WoF teachings.

Regards,

Mike

Of course it talks about it in the present tense.

Does Hebrews 11/1 say now faith is,or does it ask a question,is faith now?

Prayer based on the Word of God,is prayer based on the promises of God.
Would God deny us his promises?

 

[now faith]

No, I see it as sovereign. Healing isn't a matter of our making choices. It's whether healing will fulfill God's ultimate plan.

Also, there are two types of healing and they are easily confused with in the Bible. There is physical (ailments) and spiritual (leading us toward salvation).

Sometimes our lack of physical healing leads others to spiritual healing. In other words, healing will be done, just not to us directly.

If we are looking at the Lord's Prayer for instance, it's "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" which I see as sovereign.

So God just ignores Christ redeeming US from the curse of the law,heals some not others.
We throw out Christ teaching about asking the father in his name,now prayer is conditional.
Then we forget about God not being a respecter of persons.
We forget that all the promises of God are yes and amen.

I guess God just wants to teach some people a lesson and let them suffer.

Personally when I hear someone say God doesn't heal,due to a higher purpose,its fear talking.
Fear is a type of faith, it is faith that bad things will happen,and its Gods fault.

 

[now faith]

Of course. That's because it was God's will that she wasn't healed. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen this miracle in the Bible. It was to further God's kingdom and message. Sometimes not being healed accomplishes the same task.

What if anything do we learn from the Centurion?

Was his faith a miracle?

As far as the woman with the issue of blood,Christ had not died yet for our ubiquity.

 

[Norah63]

For those who think that our heavenly Father wants us not to be healed.
I'm glad that I'm not your child.
Oh ye of little faith, build yourselves up in your most holy faith.
Reach out and touch the hem.

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

Just believe in what Jesus did for you on the cross and healing will manifest in your body. It's not rocket science!

 

[stelow]

The majority of Christians die or will die, of some type of physical ailment.

 

[salamacum]

Yes, and then I've heard it said that these are "sicknesses unto death" (not for healing)

 

[Norah63]

Your thoughts become your focus, then they will become your words.
Your body hears your words . Speak faith filled words to it.
Speak life, speak healing. Every one has to die once, but not everyone has to die sick.

 

[stelow]

Your thoughts become your focus, then they will become your words.
Your body hears your words . Speak faith filled words to it.
Speak life, speak healing. Every one has to die once, but not everyone has to die sick.

Majority of Christians die from some type of illness, that's a fact and to belittle someone dyeing of cancer because they are judged not to have faith is wrong.

 

[Norah63]

Did you suppose that praying for life and heath was a 'belittling' thing?
To encourage that words of faith be spoken, in every situation of life, is what the Word teaches us.
Be of good cheer little children for Jesus is risen.

 

[stelow]

Every one has to die once, but not everyone has to die sick.

No when it is implied lack of faith is the reason I am dyeing of cancer; is wrong.

 

[TamaraLynne]

This has been something I have thought about for quite some time now. Years and years ago I would pray in secret for healing for others and I use to lay my hands upon my injured knee and ask God for healing and if healing did not come I would think I did not have enough faith.

I've listened to Todd white and what he has said and I focused on what the bible says on the kingdom of heaven and I have thought about how we are to step out in the little things and I have thought about how love plays a big part...thought about how God increases and we decrease...many things I now meditate and I have been stepping out in that I lay hands on those in my family and pray...

There is a part of me that is also focusing on who I am in Christ and how much God loves me and I think on his promises....I think I make my faith in asking for my healing way more difficult because my brain is always saying "I'm not worthy" or "I'm being selfish". But when I think about others I can always see how much God loves them and I always think they are worthy of Gods healing...basically I'm just way harder on myself.

I do believe that the one laying hands on the sick is the one who needs to have the faith of a mustard seed and not the one sick...All the time it seems as if the apostles were of little faith and they wanted their faith increased...the apostles were the ones who were also laying hands on the sick.
I've been rolling around in my head thoughts not only on what the bible says but what others say that actually lay hands on the sick and they are healed. But even they do not get to see everyone healed. What did Jesus say to the apostles when they could not cast out a demon? He told them that they needed to fast and pray..now whenever I have fasted and prayed the number one thing as my body began to weaken was that I was weak and God is strong. That makes me wonder if pride has stepped in...then I think about how even if pride did not step in then maybe to many people started to look at the person healing as if to give that person the glory and not God...

so many thoughts go through my head...so many things that need to be shaken inside of me until only the good remains (Gods righteousness)because it is God that heals and it is his will to heal and it is my desire to see others healed so what needs to be shaken? What needs to be meditated? What needs to increase? What is the key? What does the one who lays hands on others need? Love and being humble and to know how big our God is and his promises. Who we are in him...to not let fear to creep up on us..many things need to be meditated on.

I do know that God wants us all to lay hands on the sick...not just a few..

These are just my thoughts ...and my thoughts are just my thoughts and until I step out and lay hands on others and press in to God to know him better....they will probably just remain my thoughts.

 

[TamaraLynne]

another thought just came to me...

When the Holy Spirit came upon me for the first time I was not expecting it...it was freely given by God. Those who are sick and need healing and are healed...it is something God gives freely....

okay...thats where my thoughts end...it seemed important to post it though...even though I do not know where the thought leads..