Why Wait?

[Hakan101]

Thank you.

Actually, the Sadducees were the ones primarily responsible for killing Jesus. The vast majority of Jews never had any contact at all with Jesus during his lifetime.

You misunderstand what I am saying. I know the Sadducees were the ones who arranged his death, but they riled up the Jewish people, who rejected Jesus and chose Barabbas to be freed and Jesus to be crucified.

 

[Erth]

(This thread is for those who believe in basic scientific principles)

If you believe science provides an accurate geological/biological picture of our history, you would agree that our species homo sapiens has been around for a roundabout of 200,000 years, give or take (a few thousand years).

Now Jesus carried out his mission (that saved our kind) about 2,000 years ago.

What purpose would God have waiting ~200,000 years (and 1 genocide) to say "Alright, it's time to send my Son as a blood-sacrifice to save you."?

Unless someone can explain the concise reasoning, I fail to see why this doesn't make God imperfect and therefore not real. A perfect entity has absolutely no need or want for this petty humanistic behavior.

I think that some humans have the need to ask such questions, but God doesn't and still he loves us. I don't see what's so "petty humanistic" about God, and actually I think that human beings too aren't really petty even though they are infinitely smaller than God.

 

[homeofmew]

Taking the aspect of time out of this argument because anyway you look at it it has been 20xx Years since Christ or whatever even if Christ was Born in 32 AD.
Approx 5000 BC = The first Egyptians Appear- so 2011+5000 = Earth is at least over 7000 years old. (My Creationist Guess is about 10,000 yrs.)

Anyway STILL In any Atheists eyes the question of Why is there is a time gap is a hard one to tackle.
We believe in a patient God that is one thing I do know.

"Why hasn't Christ Returned Yet if this was real"
"why did create us in the first place if God is infinite?"

The questions can be mathematically hard to explain with time and space with infinite GOD and even 200,000 years or even 1 billion years to an infinite concept is a small amount of time.

So Here's food for thought for the Atheist- Why is there Human and why are we here, there is nor reason? Where did it start, how did it start?

Is there at least a "God of Chance?" in the world of Atheism..

 

[Question.Everything]

I don't think God "waited", that implies temporality in God's experience and existence when I believe He is atemporal.

God created this universe to experience it (through our love). This universe exists within time. Whether or not God is limited by time, he still lives in ours.

God's activity isn't about waiting and acting, but simply acting. Think of the Incarnation as dipping a finger in water with ripples moving out in all directions.

Right, and the ripples move outwards in a wave pattern that has a velocity (which means distance and time). So if you want to think of it in terms of this analogy, my question would be why would God stick his finger into the water as to create such large distances between ripples? But it's still asking the same question, why did he wait?

 

[Question.Everything]

If you were looking to find someone who is looking for you, would you look in a place where no one cares? or would you go to a place were people are searching?

God's choice of location came long before Jesus. And you can see from the OT that the location was full of any atrocities going on in China. You mentioned that the reason for God's choice in location was due to literacy and technology. When it was explained that literacy and technology were both more abundant in China, your reasoning changed from literacy/technology to "likeliness of acceptance".

Alas, to the non-believer this location puzzle isn't really a puzzle. Asia had it's own prophets, religious idols, and religions as well.

 

[Question.Everything]

1) Israel is G-d's chosen people, not China

Wouldn't it be best if everyone were Gods's chosen people?

2) The stated purpose for waiting is not simply language and roads, but both being well-established over an area large enough and diverse enough that the historical elements of the Gospel couldn't be erased, and therefore worthless.

Asia/China had all of these elements. Their religions were older than Judaism/Christianity and they're still in-tact today. Clearly it was easy to establish religion in China.

(Which is not to say that G-d can't have other reasons as well; He might)

And God could hate spaghetti too, who knows? God could hate all of us and intentionally created us to suffer and fight each other. Who knows? My point here is that it's dangerous to support your own thoughts with the ideology that "He has his reasons"...i.e. support your own thoughts with unknowns.

 

[razeontherock]

God created this universe to experience it (through our love).

Notice the emphasis I added. I'm curious about this phrase; why do you look at it this way?

So if you want to think of it in terms of this analogy, my question would be why would God stick his finger into the water as to create such large distances between ripples? But it's still asking the same question, why did he wait?

If you look at this analogy ViaCrucis presented, the "large distances between ripples" would be a representation of G-d Himself. (Which seems to me to be a very good way of looking at it)

 

[razeontherock]

You mentioned that the reason for God's choice in location was due to literacy and technology.

Actually he didn't; the statement was roads and a common language connecting not only a landmass, but a large enough population, and cultures distinct enough to make sure His efforts didn't get wiped out. Your comparison to the Far East really isn't valid. (Now if you want to question G-d's choosing of the Hebrews ... that's a whole nother can of worms, with tons of answers)

 

[Question.Everything]

Taking the aspect of time out of this argument because anyway you look at it it has been 20xx Years since Christ or whatever even if Christ was Born in 32 AD.
Approx 5000 BC = The first Egyptians Appear- so 2011+5000 = Earth is at least over 7000 years old. (My Creationist Guess is about 10,000 yrs.)

What are your views on archaeological dating and observations of space (physics for that matter)? They're almost 100% inaccurate? Scientists are lying to us? It boggles my mind that someone can actually believe the Earth is only 10,000 years old.

The questions can be mathematically hard to explain with time and space with infinite GOD and even 200,000 years or even 1 billion years to an infinite concept is a small amount of time.

Whether or not God is infinite, he created time in our universe. If God is to act in our universe, he is to act within it's time. There was a time when Jesus didn't rise from the dead (before), and there was a time when he did (after).

Why is there Human and why are we here, there is nor reason?

Maybe there is some grand reason for existence, maybe there's not. We (humans, not atheists) don't know enough to answer the question. What we can do now is do our best to co-exist with each other and seek these answers. This is the purpose of science.

Where did it start, how did it start?

Our universe started billions of years ago with most likely an explosion of matter (Big Bang). Were there universes before ours? Was there "another" time before our time? Great questions to think about, but impossible to answer with the current level of human knowledge. Again, this is what science (more specifically physics) seeks the answer to.

Is there at least a "God of Chance?" in the world of Atheism..

There are no gods in atheism because there is no evidence for gods.

 

[razeontherock]

Wouldn't it be best if everyone were Gods's chosen people?

This is possible in Christ, which is why the Gospel must be preached.

Asia/China had all of these elements. Their religions were older than Judaism/Christianity and they're still in-tact today. Clearly it was easy to establish religion in China.

Please re-examine your statements, and re-visit your conclusion in the last statement here! It is NOT "easy to establish religion" where one already exists! In fact the Holy Ghost instructed Disciples NOT to go into Asia. Why? They had no basis from which to relate to the Gospel, nor to G-d as He had revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The area would have been most inhospitable at that time, and yet now we see tremendous revival there, and it is arguably home to the world's strongest Churches.

My point here is that it's dangerous to support your own thoughts with the ideology that "He has his reasons"...i.e. support your own thoughts with unknowns.

I appreciate your concern, but it is unfounded; I have not supported my thoughts with unknowns, merely pointed out that my very brief summary is not pretending to be any complete representation of reality.

 

[Aeneas]

Unless someone can explain the concise reasoning, I fail to see why this doesn't make God imperfect and therefore not real. A perfect entity has absolutely no need or want for this petty humanistic behavior.

God didn't feel like adhering to your timeline, I guess.

 

[ViaCrucis]

God created this universe to experience it (through our love). This universe exists within time. Whether or not God is limited by time, he still lives in ours.

What's the rationale behind your assumption that God created the universe to experience it through our love?

Right, and the ripples move outwards in a wave pattern that has a velocity (which means distance and time). So if you want to think of it in terms of this analogy, my question would be why would God stick his finger into the water as to create such large distances between ripples? But it's still asking the same question, why did he wait?

So what you're asking, fundamentally, is why did God choose roughly the year 4 BCE during the reign of Augustus Caesar to do it?

No idea.

As far as "waiting" goes, again that's fundamentally irrelevant since "waiting" implies temporality.

-CryptoLutheran