WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

SabbathBlessings · Jul 15, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Edit: OK, I'm leaving this post because it's all still correct except for one thing, which I'm correcting right now cause I was prompted to go back and look it up, etc, the rich young ruler did at first answer with the right words, "at first", but then when Jesus tried to tell him, "very good, you have answered correctly, do this and live", etc, but the rich young ruler wasn't fully satisfied, and so he turned and/or approached and/or got Jesus attention again and spoke to Jesus again, and that's when it says Jesus knew that he was trying to prove his own righteousness (by how he kept the letter of the law OT commands or commandments read and/or understood in the old way, etc), then that's when the "setup" comes or came, etc, but not really a "setup" since the man kind of "walked right into it", (the setup, that trap, etc), (of how you read and/or truly understand in your heart all the commands or commandments of God truly, etc) and did this basically almost all on his own, etc...

But, this post (above) (and I'm just going to leave it, etc) is still "mostly correct", etc, so I'm just going to leave it, slight error included for now, etc...

The main point being about how you "read", or truly understand the true commandments of God (law) in your own heart, etc, and the old way, and the new one, etc, those points about those two are still very much valid, etc, so I'm just going to leave it for now, etc...

The rich young ruler might have said the right word "at first", but then showed that that was not also how he truly understood them in his heart also, etc...

Something or someone told me to go back and look again, a "feeling" I got that I get sometimes, etc, and so I did, and am now including this "edit", etc...

Don't want to get or teach things in error, etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, I don't make even very minor mistakes very often, but I have noticed that, when I do, someone or something almost always tells me about it or lets me know about it almost right away, etc, and if and when I do, or if and when that happens again in the future, anyway, I promise to always include and edit and/or correct my mistake as soon as I can OK, etc, I don't do it very often, but it happens sometimes, etc...

It's usually just a very minor detail most of the time, that doesn't usually affect the whole point I was trying to make in a post, that is most usually always still correct, etc, like it was with this one, but all errors and/or mistakes need to corrected or avoided, especially when you take something like "this" as seriously as I do, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

There is nothing in the rich young ruler story that says he was trying to prove his own righteousness by keeping God's laws that Jesus was quoting for us to keep.

That is not what this story is about.

Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Jesus told the rich ruler to sell his possessions and follow Him. He could have been another disciple. Instead the ruler went away sad because he had many possessions. The rich ruler claimed he was following the commandments, but he placed money (his great possessions) over Jesus, money became his god and breaks the very commandments Jesus was refencing. Jesus is not teaching us we should not keep the commandments, He is teaching the very opposite.

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. Money was the rich ruler god otherwise he would have obeyed Jesus and followed Him and had treasure in Heaven which outweighs any treasures we can have on earth.

I hope this helps.

God bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
There is nothing in the rich young ruler story that says he was trying to prove his own righteousness by keeping God's laws that Jesus was quoting for us to keep.

That is not what this story is about.

Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Jesus told the rich ruler to sell his possessions and follow Him. This could have been another disciple. Instead the ruler went away sad because he had many possessions. The rich ruler claimed he was following the commandments, but he placed money (his great possessions) over God, money became his god and breaks the very commandments Jesus was refencing. Jesus is not teaching us we should not keep the commandments, He is teaching the very opposite.

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. Money was the rich ruler god otherwise he would have obeyed Jesus and followed Him and had treasure in Heaven which outweighs any treasures we can have on earth.

I hope this helps.

God bless!

You are right, sorry, looks like I got the accounts in Luke and Matthew mixed up, but my point about how you know and/or understand or read the commandments/law stands though, if you are only knowing them by the old way, then it will only lead to you trying to prove your own righteousness, which is sin, but if you understand them in the new way that Jesus says, by Love, etc, then they will not lead you into trying to prove your own self-righteousness or sin...

Hope this helps...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Jesus asked that certain man, the rich young ruler, already truly and fully knowing and reading his heart and his real true intentions before even asking Jesus, etc, anyway, Jesus asked the rich young ruler that, "How do you read it?", meaning "How do you understand it right now?", etc, kind of "setting him up" really, etc, because Jesus already knew his heart and already knew that he understood the commandments of God in only the old way still and also that this man was also trying to prove his own righteousness also, etc, so it was kind of a "setup", etc, Jesus was "fishing" I guess you could say, etc, but and/or anyway, Jesus knew he still only understood it in only the old way only, and when people have just only that understanding only, then they are only out to prove their own self-righteousness only, either to others or to themselves, etc, which is a sin, and the trap of the way the "letter" of the "OT law covenant" was "written", etc, which is why Jesus asked him "How did he read it?", but was trying to get at how he understood it or knew it currently", etc, but and/or because Jesus already knew the answer already, and was kind of setting him up, as I already explained already, etc, but and/or anyway, to make a long story short, or at least try to, Jesus knew he was going to turn him away or cause him to go away already before the man ever even started out asking him, or before that specific man ever even came to Him, etc...

Bottom line, he (that man) only understood the old way, and that only leads to one trying to prove their own righteousness, either to others or maybe to God maybe, but at the very least to "themselves" at least, in the very least, etc, cause that is the trap of "that", etc, and another bottom line is, the/that man had not come to understand that the commandments of God must be understood or read or known in a whole new way, or it would be impossible to ever really fulfill them truly, etc, but only falsely, etc, the slick deception of which, the way of doing it or trying to do it falsely, etc, always deceives very, very many, and in fact, deceives almost everyone a lot of time, etc... They won't even know that "that's", "only what they really are doing", which is sad, etc...

Anyway, sometimes I don't even know why I bother posting or even trying to answer these kind of questions/arguments anymore...?

But I guess if it helps to further clarify for even just one single person, then I guess it's worth it... "Maybe" anyway... Because I think I'm starting to question that now as well maybe, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:
Edit: OK, I'm leaving this post because it's all still correct except for one thing, which I'm correcting right now cause I was prompted to go back and look it up, etc, the rich young ruler did at first answer with the right words, "at first", but then when Jesus tried to tell him, "very good, you have answered correctly, do this and live", etc, but the rich young ruler wasn't fully satisfied, and so he turned and/or approached and/or got Jesus attention again and spoke to Jesus again, and that's when it says Jesus knew that he was trying to prove his own righteousness (by how he kept the letter of the law OT commands or commandments read and/or understood in the old way, etc), then that's when the "setup" comes or came, etc, but not really a "setup" since the man kind of "walked right into it", (the setup, that trap, etc), (of how you read and/or truly understand in your heart all the commands or commandments of God truly, etc) and did this basically almost all on his own, etc...

But, this post (above) (and I'm just going to leave it, etc) is still "mostly correct", etc, so I'm just going to leave it, slight error included for now, etc...

The main point being about how you "read", or truly understand the true commandments of God (law) in your own heart, etc, and the old way, and the new one, etc, those points about those two are still very much valid, etc, so I'm just going to leave it for now, etc...

The rich young ruler might have said the right word "at first", but then showed that that was not also how he truly understood them in his heart also, etc...

Something or someone told me to go back and look again, a "feeling" I got that I get sometimes, etc, and so I did, and am now including this "edit", etc...

Don't want to get or teach things in error, etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, I don't make even very minor mistakes very often, but I have noticed that, when I do, someone or something almost always tells me about it or lets me know about it almost right away, etc, and if and when I do, or if and when that happens again in the future, anyway, I promise to always include and edit and/or correct my mistake as soon as I can OK, etc, I don't do it very often, but it happens sometimes, etc...

It's usually just a very minor detail most of the time, that doesn't usually affect the whole point I was trying to make in a post, that is most usually always still correct, etc, like it was with this one, but all errors and/or mistakes need to corrected or avoided, especially when you take something like "this" as seriously as I do, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

OK, looks like I got the accounts in Luke and Mathew mixed up, one was a lawyer and the other was the rich young ruler, etc... Sorry about the mistake, etc...

Both were trying to prove their own righteousness I believe... As both were still OT Jews still under the OT letter of the law covenant still, and Jesus knew this about them both, etc...

So please see post #162 right above this one, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
You are right, sorry, looks like I got the accounts in Luke and Matthew mixed up, but my point about how you know and/or understand or read the commandments/law stands though, if you are only knowing them by the old way, then it will only lead to you trying to prove your own righteousness, which is sin, but if you understand them in the new way that Jesus says, by Love, etc, then they will not lead you into trying to prove your own self-righteousness or sin...

Hope this helps...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:
OK, looks like I got the accounts in Luke and Mathew mixed up, one was a lawyer and the other was the rich young ruler, etc... Sorry about the mistake, etc...

Both were trying to prove their own righteousness I believe... As both were still OT Jews still under the OT letter of the law covenant still, and Jesus knew this about them both, etc...

So please see post #162 right above this one, etc...

God Bless!

I am truly sorry for that mixup, etc, but what I was trying to say, or what I was trying to teach by them, is not in error at all, etc, and is not at all wrong, and still stands, etc...

If you never ever had or heard of Jesus or any of the NT or it's teachings, etc, and all you had was to OT letter of the law, etc, ten commandments only, etc, and you were trying to be made right or not sin by only just them only, etc, do you think you'd ever really see any real true success at all, etc...? Because I guarantee you, you would not, but you only might think you were, etc... Because even if you could obey the letter of them for a time, you would still see yourself as better or higher or more superior than others, which is a sin, etc, and beyond that even, you would also have a lot of bitterness, anger, and hatred and wrath and envy and jealousy of those others that you would be thinking you are better or higher than also, which is sin, etc, and you would also have a lot or "judgementalism" as well, etc, which is also sin also, etc, so it really would not produce any kind of real true "sinlessness" in you at all, etc... It is only the new way that Jesus taught that give us any kind of hope at all, etc, and it is only because you have at least heard of it, that you or me or anyone might be having any kind of real true success with it ever at all ever only, etc, for the letter kills and is dead, etc, and the new way of understanding the commandments of God is our only real hope, etc...

So while I might have gotten the examples mixed up or wrong, my teaching is still not at all wrong, and I think that is what is of paramount importance, etc...

But I am sorry though... I usually don't make those kinds of mistakes, etc, so it is a little humbling, which I don't really mind at all really, etc, as it helps keep me in-check, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
You are right, sorry, looks like I got the accounts in Luke and Matthew mixed up, but my point about how you know and/or understand or read the commandments/law stands though, if you are only knowing them by the old way, then it will only lead to you trying to prove your own righteousness, which is sin, but if you understand them in the new way that Jesus says, by Love, etc, then they will not lead you into trying to prove your own self-righteousness or sin...

Hope this helps...

God Bless!

The rich ruler was not about proving his own righteousness by following God's laws. We can only serve one master and if we serve God we need to place Him above everything else, this is the message in the young ruler.

We do not obey God's commandments for our self-righteousness we do it because it is righteous (the right thing to do) and we love God. Disobeying God is not righteous nor does it show love to our Savior according to Him. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

God bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The rich ruler was not about proving his own righteousness by following God's laws. We can only serve one master and if we serve God we need to place Him above everything else, this is the message in the young ruler.

We do not obey God's commandments for our self-righteousness we do it because it is righteous (the right thing to do) and we love God. Disobeying God is not righteous nor does it show love to our Savior according to Him. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

God bless!

Anytime you/me/we just go only strictly only by the letter of the OT/OC only, it is always only about only your own self-righteousness only, and/or proving your own righteousness (above other people) only, etc...

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Anytime you/me/we just go only strictly only by the letter of the OT/OC only, it is always only about only your own self-righteousness only, and/or proving your own righteousness (above other people) only, etc...

God Bless!

So are you saying we should murder and do the opposite of God's law and that makes us righteous? Or worship other gods, because worshipping the real God and Savior would make us self-righteous?

If you have faith in Jesus you are going to want to obey, not disobey. Jesus taught us the commandments are greater than the literal Mathew 5:21-30 But God does not want us to literally lie, or covet, or worship other god, or break His holy Sabbath. We cannot keep the spiritual commandments by breaking the literal commandments.

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
So are you saying we should murder and do the opposite of God's law and that makes us righteous? Or worship other gods, because worshipping the real God and Savior would make us self-righteous?

If you have faith in Jesus you are going to want to obey, not disobey. Jesus taught us the commandments are greater than the literal Mathew 5:21-30 But God does not want us to literally lie, or covet, or worship other god, or break His holy Sabbath. We cannot keep the spiritual commandments by breaking the literal commandments.

No I am still saying exactly what I just now said still in post #166 (again) still, etc...

Maybe you should read it again, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
So are you saying we should murder and do the opposite of God's law and that makes us righteous? Or worship other gods, because worshipping the real God and Savior would make us self-righteous?

If you have faith in Jesus you are going to want to obey, not disobey. Jesus taught us the commandments are greater than the literal Mathew 5:21-30 But God does not want us to literally lie, or covet, or worship other god, or break His holy Sabbath. We cannot keep the spiritual commandments by breaking the literal commandments.

There is only one real true way to truly fulfill the law, and not just exchange one set of sins, for another kind or set of sins, etc...

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
There is only one real true way to truly fulfill the law, and not just exchange one set of sins, for another kind or set of sins, etc...

God Bless!

So are you advocating that we should break God's laws? You are not really being clear.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
No I am still saying exactly what I just now said still in post #166 (again) still, etc...

Maybe you should read it again, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

I did, it's hard to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are advocating to not keep the laws that God personally wrote for us with His own finger on stone and than stored in the Most holy of His Temple That seems important to me. God wrote His laws in our hearts and we fulfill these laws when we obey because of our love, not when we disobey. We cannot break God's literal laws if we keep the spiritual laws. That is sinning.

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
So are you advocating that we should break God's laws? You are not really being clear.

No, And if you do not understand my posts so far, then maybe you were never meant to understand them, etc, but I would direct you back to some of my prior posts just recently, etc, because beyond it/that/them, I really don't think I can be any clearer, etc...

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
No, And if you do not understand my posts so far, then maybe you were never meant to understand them, etc, but I would direct you back to some of my prior posts just recently, etc, because beyond it/that/them, I really don't think I can be any clearer, etc...

God Bless!

I did read your post. You seem to be advocating if we keep the letter of God's laws we are sinning. Sin is defined as breaking God's laws, not keeping them. 1 John 4:3

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I did, it's hard to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are advocating to not keep the laws that God personally wrote for us with His own finger on stone and than stored in the Most holy of His Temple That seems important to me.

No, I am saying that there is only way to truly fulfill them, and beyond that, only one way to even ever go even above and beyond them, etc...

If what you are observing or are looking at is only the OT letter of the/those laws only, then your only setting yourself up for self-deception as far as in keeping them or not sinning is concerned, etc, but and/or again, this is only if that is only all you have or are going by only, etc...

You will breaking the laws that go above and beyond the letter, in exchange for keeping the letter, etc... And then that only is "if your even able to do that even" also, etc... But even if you are or do, and you only are or do only by the letter of it/them only, etc, then you will breaking some of the spirit of it/them, or behind them, and will have exchanged not breaking some rules and laws, for violating some of the higher others, etc, and you will be deceived into thinking your not breaking any of it/them at all, etc, but you will be breaking some of it/them always, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I did read your post. You seem to be advocating if we keep the letter of God's laws we are sinning. Sin is defined as breaking God's laws, not keeping them. 1 John 4:3

If all you are understanding/observing is only the letter of it/them only, then you will seem to be succeeding in the area of sin, but will not actually be, etc, and if that is "all you have", or is "all your observing or understanding", then yes, you will be sinning, etc...

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
No, I am saying that there is only way to truly fulfill them, and beyond that, only one way to even ever go even above and beyond them, etc...

If what you observing or are looking at is only the OT letter of the/those laws only, then your only setting yourself up for self-deception as far as in keeping them or not sinning is concerned, etc, but and/or again, this is only if that is only all you have or are going by only, etc...

You will breaking the laws that go above and beyond the letter, in exchange for keeping the letter, etc... And then that only is "if your even able to do that even" also, etc... But even if you are or do, and you only are or do only by the letter of it/them only, etc, then you will breaking some of the spirit of it/them, or behind them, and will have exchanged not breaking some rules and laws, for violating some of the higher others, etc, and you will be deceived into thinking your not breaking any of it/them at all, etc, but you will be breaking some of it/them always, etc...

God Bless!

I notice you do not provide scripture references which really helps.

What I think I hear you saying is that all people who obey God's laws is doing it to be self-righteous. This seems like a judgement and only God knows our hearts. If you read my post and it's on my signatures we obey God because we love Him, He wrote His laws in our hearts and we obey because of our great love for our Savior and we fulfill them when we obey (not disobey). They are written in our minds too, which means we obey through our actions.

It seems like what you are teaching is we should not obey God's literally laws because that makes us self-righteous but breaking God's laws are a sin 1 John 4:3 if we are walking with God's Spirit we obey the Spirit of God laws, which also keeps the letter (don't lie, steal, murder etc.).

God bless

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
No, I am saying that there is only way to truly fulfill them, and beyond that, only one way to even ever go even above and beyond them, etc...

If what you are observing or are looking at is only the OT letter of the/those laws only, then your only setting yourself up for self-deception as far as in keeping them or not sinning is concerned, etc, but and/or again, this is only if that is only all you have or are going by only, etc...

You will breaking the laws that go above and beyond the letter, in exchange for keeping the letter, etc... And then that only is "if your even able to do that even" also, etc... But even if you are or do, and you only are or do only by the letter of it/them only, etc, then you will breaking some of the spirit of it/them, or behind them, and will have exchanged not breaking some rules and laws, for violating some of the higher others, etc, and you will be deceived into thinking your not breaking any of it/them at all, etc, but you will be breaking some of it/them always, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:
If all you are understanding/observing is only the letter of it/them only, then you will seem to be succeeding in the area of sin, but will not actually be, etc, and if that is "all you have", or is "all your observing or understanding", then yes, you will be sinning, etc...

God Bless!

And the sins you will be committing is the sins of egotism or self-righteousness, etc, which God absolutely hates more than anything, etc, and yes, or yea, even "detests" very much absolutely, etc...

And the only reason you may not be right now, is only because of what you/me/we have heard from Jesus, etc, but without that, then the rest of all of this that I am saying, etc, is always 100% absolutely true always, etc...

God Bless!

SabbathBlessings · Jul 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
And the sins you will be committing is the sins of egotism or self-righteousness, etc, which God absolutely hates more than anything, etc, and yes, or yea, even "detests" very much absolutely, etc...

And the only reason you may not be right now, is only because of what you/me/we have heard from Jesus, etc, but without that, then the rest of all of this that I am saying, etc, is always 100% absolutely true always, etc...

God Bless!

So is this your reason to advocate we should break God's laws?

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I notice you do not provide scripture references which really helps.

If you truly know your Bible, then you should already know that all that I am saying is "all over the place" in it, etc...

And, I don't mean any "offense", but I don't really feel like talking with people who do not know these things, because if they truly knew their Bibles, then they should already know and/or understand them, etc...

SabbathBlessings said:
What I think I hear you saying is that all people who obey God's laws is doing it to be self-righteous.

Most of the time this is 100% absolutely the case with people only going by the letter of it/them, etc...

But they are most of the time, not even aware of it, etc...

SabbathBlessings said:
This seems like a judgement and only God knows our hearts.

It is only what the Bible says about it, etc...

SabbathBlessings said:
If you read my post and it's on my signatures we obey God because we love Him, He wrote His laws in our hearts and we obey because of our great love for our Savior and we fulfill them when w obey (not disobey). They are written in our minds too, which means we obey through our actions.

Then you have something else (a different understanding) besides just the letter of the law that is allowing you or enabling you to do that, if you are truly doing it/that, etc, and without it/that you would not be being able at all to ever do it at all, etc...

SabbathBlessings said:
It seems like what you are teaching is we should not obey God's literally laws because that makes us self-righteous but breaking God's laws are a sin 1 John 4:3 if we are walking with God's Spirit we obey the Spirit of God laws, which also keeps the letter (don't lie, steal, murder etc.).

God bless

No, when I say "letter" here, I do not just mean the literal words, but the way and/or manner in which it is written/worded/understood, etc...

And that, if that was all you truly had, you would not be able to obey any of God's true laws at all, most especially not the much, much "higher" ones of them, etc...

You are not having success, if you are truly having success, if you only truly only have only the OT letter of it/them, etc, but only because you now understand or "read it" a little bit differently now only because of Jesus, etc, but without that, and with just only the OT letter of it/them, you would be lost, and not even know it, or ever even be aware of it, etc...

IOW's it is not by knowing the OT letter of it/them that is allowing you to have any kind of success, but it is only by your knowing what was added to them by Jesus only, that is now enabling you to do that, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
So is this your reason to advocate we should break God's laws?

How do you know if I am breaking God's laws...?

What if I am not, etc...?

Or is that just what you say to everybody who says to you that OT letter of God's commands only, or that are taken just all by themselves alone or only, etc, cannot ever lead to true obedience and/or save, etc...?

God Bless!

WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

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