Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[lismore]

I never go there since I don't qualify. They can say whatever they want and it doesn't bother me one bit. It only bothers me if I want to converse with a brother and they automatically make assumptions about me and now I can no longer befriend someone.

Well I dont make any assumptions about you. I'm sure the things that unite us are more than the things that divide us. Shalom to you

I just think its a good idea sometimes to have little sub-forums, where we can go and discuss our respective differences in harmony and respect. But also have the main forum to come together again.

God Bless

 

[CindyisHis]

Hello

I see them as little fellowship forums for people to fellowship with believers of similar beliefs. There is a WOF forum for WOF members to share on. There is a charismatic Non Wof forum for others, such as myself, who see themselves as Charismatic but not WOF to fellowship on. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

Sadly however in the past few days there have been a lot of reports, attacks and thread deletions instigated by WOF members on the Charismatic Non Wof forum. Two threads have gone. There seems to be a lot of insecurity and paranoia coming from the WOF camp, even though WOF brothers and sisters have their own forum in which to share their distinct views.

This paranoia I believe is from a minority of WOF members, but I hope the Lord relieves their hearts from fear and paranoia soon. It certainly isnt doing the WOF cause any favours, seeing the propents of the teachings so insecure and neurotic.

That's for sure.

Father, I pray for anyone who may be dealing with this. I pray they receive the mind of Christ in this. I pray you impart Your thoughts to them, and bring peace to Your people. Amen.

 

[CindyisHis]

I agree with the concept sister but it is lacking somewhat in this forum and if we are to do that then there should just be one big area and no denominations but I dont think that would last long.

Ought not be that way, but I think you're right about that.

 

[lismore]

I dont know about that as I dont go in the non forum not hasve I reported anyone, if it is to bad I will use the ignore feature but I see some posts by just a few that do ask a response that is gauranteed to bring strife.

Well amen psalms91. As I said I think a minority of WOF members are worried by the non WOF sub-forum, for some unknown reason.

The thing is with strife is that it takes more than one person to have strife. In other words, dont rise to the bait and all will be well.

 

[CindyisHis]

Well I dont make any assumptions about you. I'm sure the things that unite us are more than the things that divide us. Shalom to you

I just think its a good idea sometimes to have little sub-forums, where we can go and discuss our respective differences in harmony and respect. But also have the main forum to come together again.

God Bless

Oh lismore, you definitely don't make assumptions! You have always been respectful and Christ-like in every post I've read of yours.

And yes, I like to be able to go to a sub-forum to discuss things and then come together. It's in the coming together I desire for everyone to treat each other respectfully.

- Like this!

 

[CindyisHis]

The thing is with strife is that it takes more than one person to have strife. In other words, dont rise to the bait and all will be well.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Hello

I see them as little fellowship forums for people to fellowship with believers of similar beliefs. There is a WOF forum for WOF members to share on. There is a charismatic Non Wof forum for others, such as myself, who see themselves as Charismatic but not WOF to fellowship on. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

Sadly however in the past few days there have been a lot of reports, attacks and thread deletions instigated by WOF members on the Charismatic Non Wof forum. Two threads have gone. There seems to be a lot of insecurity and paranoia coming from the WOF camp, even though WOF brothers and sisters have their own forum in which to share their distinct views.

This paranoia I believe is from a minority of WOF members, but I hope the Lord relieves their hearts from fear and paranoia soon. It certainly isnt doing the WOF cause any favours, seeing the propents of the teachings so insecure and neurotic.

I Believe the WOF forum is a great place to hang out, hope all WOF members find a stable home there soon and can leave the Non Wof forum be.

God Bless

I agree.

Also, in the "main forum", debates can get personal such as making more of known faults than really deserve based on someone's view as I have experienced in few threads. There's nothing wrong with debating with fellow Christian brethren even though we may not agree with their doctrinal beliefs. In Christ, spiritually, we all are Christians however we are divided by doctrines (flesh). We just need to debate by staying focus on the topic. The real issue is accusing someone without knowing the real facts rather than the topic at hand. Many of us are guilty of slander when we go "off the topic" of the thread. This is why we need to STAY on topic rather than going off with slandor or mocking or anything like that. Sarcasms and personal attacks rather than staying on the topic makes this place hostile. Our communication will reveal the kind of person we really are, because what comes out of our mouth (fingers in typing) is usually what's in our heart. What we are really interested in is how we are going to defend ourselves, display our wisdom, crack a good joke or straighten the other person out. I am guilty of this as well as many people in this area.

Good debates (conflicts) are benefitial. They can encourage us to search the Scriptures (Psm. 119:71-72). They can help us think carefully about how and what we think or what we believe (Pro. 15:28). the very reason why God allowed controversy in the church at Corinth: “For there must also be factions (opinions) among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you” (1 Cor. 11:19). Yet to avoid the disunity of the Corinthian church, we must handle our opinions with abundant humility and grace.

 

[lismore]

Oh lismore, you definitely don't make assumptions! You have always been respectful and Christ-like in every post I've read of yours.

And yes, I like to be able to go to a sub-forum to discuss things and then come together. It's in the coming together I desire for everyone to treat each other respectfully.

- Like this!

Thanks very much

I second that group hug

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

"Health, wealth, and prosperity" are no more important than love, forgiveness, and dying to the flesh. Why are those things never mentioned? Why do some people think all we ever think about are the things you named, and that we would think less of worship, prayer, the name of Jesus, or any other subject? I think that is what dids meant when he was saying people say all sorts of things about us.

We believe the Word! We devour it! We abide in His Words and have His Words abide in us. Just what it says. And for that we're the "bad guys"? A group someone would want to label themselves as "non" WoF?

Personally, I prefer not to have ANY label. I am a believer. That's how my see myself, as a blood-bought, born-again child of God, a member of the body of Christ, of we are all a part of, no matter what church you go to, as long as you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth Jesus is LORD, knowing He died for you and rose again, well, what difference does the rest make as far as our relationship with one another? We are one!

amen, well said Cindy. Totally agree.

 

[probinson]

The problem is the non-WoF forum is hardly ever used for like-minded "fellowship". It is most often used to vent and gripe about WoF beliefs and believers. Days, and sometimes entire weeks, go by without a single post in the non-WoF forum, until someone has something to complain about.

I was the forum manager on staff at the time the non-WoF forum was created and was actually quite integral to the creation of it. The intent was for people who did not hold WoF beliefs to have a place to discuss those things freely, just as WoF believers have a place to do so. Like-minded fellowship was always intended to be the purpose. I still support that idea. But that is not how the non-WoF forum has operated. It is very anti-WoF in nature.

And that is the problem.

 

[CindyisHis]

I agree.

Also, in the "main forum", debates can get personal such as making more of known faults than really deserve based on someone's view as I have experienced in few threads. There's nothing wrong with debating with fellow Christian brethren even though we may not agree with their doctrinal beliefs. In Christ, spiritually, we all are Christians however we are divided by doctrines (flesh). We just need to debate by staying focus on the topic. The real issue is accusing someone without knowing the real facts rather than the topic at hand. Many of us are guilty of slander when we go "off the topic" of the thread. This is why we need to STAY on topic rather than going off with slandor or mocking or anything like that. Sarcasms and personal attacks rather than staying on the topic makes this place hostile. Our communication will reveal the kind of person we really are, because what comes out of our mouth (fingers in typing) is usually what's in our heart. What we are really interested in is how we are going to defend ourselves, display our wisdom, crack a good joke or straighten the other person out. I am guilty of this as well as many people in this area.

Good debates (conflicts) are benefitial. They can encourage us to search the Scriptures (Psm. 119:71-72). They can help us think carefully about how and what we think or what we believe (Pro. 15:28). the very reason why God allowed controversy in the church at Corinth: “For there must also be factions (opinions) among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you” (1 Cor. 11:19). Yet to avoid the disunity of the Corinthian church, we must handle our opinions with abundant humility and grace.

I pretty much agree with you on this, Jim. It's the mocking and sarcasm that must be done away with. Just b/c someone may not believe quite the same way is no reason to belittle them, or get nasty. EVERYone should be treated respectfully.

 

[lismore]

It is very anti-WoF in nature.

And that is the problem.

Sounds a wee bit paranoid. Be blessed. Dont worry about the other forum!

If you leave the non WOF subforum alone all hostility will die.

 

[JimfromOhio]

The problem is the non-WoF forum is hardly ever used for like-minded "fellowship". It is most often used to vent and gripe about WoF beliefs and believers. Days, and sometimes entire weeks, go by without a single post in the non-WoF forum, until someone has something to complain about.

I was the forum manager on staff at the time the non-WoF forum was created and was actually quite integral to the creation of it. The intent was for people who did not hold WoF beliefs to have a place to discuss those things freely, just as WoF believers have a place to do so. Like-minded fellowship was always intended to be the purpose. I still support that idea. But that is not how the non-WoF forum has operated. It is very anti-WoF in nature.

And that is the problem.

Actually, there are two sides of "anti". WOF and Non-WOF

 

[lismore]

I pretty much agree with you on this, Jim. It's the mocking and sarcasm that must be done away with. Just b/c someone may not believe quite the same way is no reason to belittle them, or get nasty. EVERYone should be treated respectfully.

Yes. We can all learn new things from one another if we listen and treat each other with respect. Sifting what is said and holding on to the good bits.

Jesus loves each and everyone of us, so we should love one another.

 

[probinson]

Sounds a wee bit paranoid. Be blessed. Dont worry about the other forum!

If you leave the non WOF subforum alone all hostility will die.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't post in the non-WoF forum, nor do I report people in the non-WoF forum (or any forum, for that matter). I read it and shake my head sometimes, but that's about as far as my "interference" in that forum goes.

I'm also not sure what good you think comes from calling people "paranoid". The fact is, there are real people who post at this forum who are hurt daily by the words spoken here (on both sides of the debates). Whoever came up with the statement "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" was an ignorant fool. Words do hurt people. Deeply.

These people are not "paranoid". They are hurt. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken with over the years, both in a staff capacity and just as a regular member, who can not understand why there is so much strife in a forum that bears the name "Spirit-filled". It's a question that belies reason.

So your answer of "paranoia" is not only inaccurate, it also adds to the level of frustration that people have concerning this issue. Why is it "paranoid" to desire that people NOT say false things about you?

Now this is certainly a problem that is not limited to the non-WoF forum. When someone accuses another of thinking God is "evil", or a "monster", or a "child-abuser", or a "tyrant", or any of the many other colorful terms I've heard lobbed from my side of the debate, it adds NOTHING to the discussion and only causes the division to drive deeper.

This is not a problem that will go away by itself. The staff can't fix it. More rules won't help it. A rearranging of the forum structure will solve little if anything. The ONLY way we can see real and lasting change in this forum is one EVERY ONE OF US allows God to change us from the inside out. We need to see people the way He sees them. We need to have respect for them, even when we disagree. We need to stop bearing false witness against one another. We need to LOVE like Jesus Loved.

Only when we all do this will we see real and lasting change.

 

[lismore]

So your answer of "paranoia" is not only inaccurate, it also adds to the level of frustration that people have concerning this issue. Why is it "paranoid" to desire that people NOT say false things about you?

Pete.

You said people in the Non-WOF sub-forum were saying hostile things about WOF?

I do indeed call that paranoid for a WOF member to be constantly checking out the Non-WOF forum to see what they're saying.

No matter what belief you hold there will always be someone who disagrees with it. That's just a fact of life.

Why worry? You have your own forum to post in and it seems like a very good forum.

Let it alone and peace will come.

There is also trust. We have to learn to trust one another. We arent showing much trust by monitoring one another's sub-forums!

God Bless

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I've read through the thread and i agree that since the WOF kind of came from the pentecostal "name it claim it" teaching that i have tested on myself .. but i do digress .

Since it seems to be of a different kernel altogether .. Perhaps WOF needs a separate forum . its really doing something completely different than what i've observed the charismatic does .

and as for the non-WOF forum i like Neph's idea (or recollection) that it should be called post charismatic or perhaps something else the posters in that area would like to be called .

and i think if the WOF were to cease going to the "non WOF" area kinda like i have stopped going to the "fundamentalist" area .

If its Non-WOF and you are WOF then what purpose is there for you being there other than causing trouble? (an honest question)

I sincerely hope this all works out .

 

[SavedByGrace3]

IT does not even bother me that people are anti WoF. That is to be expected and I can easily handle that, as most WoFers can. What does bother me is that they both need and have created an anti-wof for the sole purpose of venting their opposition where nobody is allowed to respond.

As an example... would we allow an "non-black" forum for only white supremacists where they could push their racist propaganda without opposition? Now I am in no way comparing non-wof people to this hate group. But I am saying no such forum would be allowed.Yet here we have a non-wof forum using very similar logic and (like it or not, admit it or not) they DO behave very much in this manner! How would you feel if they had a forum with your particular group preceded by the word "non?"

In the world we have "non" type organizations that exclude one specific group. Some are racists, some are political. But in the world they are recognized for what they are. They are called hate groups and supremacist organizations. In the world, the constitution protects these groups so they can march in funny suits and spout their hate speech. But we are not the world. So, as some have pointed out, you have the freedom of gathering and freedom of speech to do these things... but is it Godly. Are you satisfied that the world allows you to do it? Does God?

How about we do an audit of the non-wof forum and find how many threads do just this. They bring up some WoF issue or person they do not like, and proceed to just go on and on. No other purpose is served by the thread. It exists solely to bash WoFers. Very often the thread is totally untrue. If any WoFer dares to post anything as innocent as "excuse me.... that is not entirely correct" all hell breaks loose and you would think somebody had stole the baby's lolly.

My biggest beef is that CF provides and supports this injustice. My second biggest concern is that no-body over there seems to think there is anything wrong with what they are doing!
I wonder what homeland security would think?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't post in the non-WoF forum, nor do I report people in the non-WoF forum (or any forum, for that matter). I read it and shake my head sometimes, but that's about as far as my "interference" in that forum goes.

I'm also not sure what good you think comes from calling people "paranoid". The fact is, there are real people who post at this forum who are hurt daily by the words spoken here (on both sides of the debates). Whoever came up with the statement "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" was an ignorant fool. Words do hurt people. Deeply.

These people are not "paranoid". They are hurt. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken with over the years, both in a staff capacity and just as a regular member, who can not understand why there is so much strife in a forum that bears the name "Spirit-filled". It's a question that belies reason.

So your answer of "paranoia" is not only inaccurate, it also adds to the level of frustration that people have concerning this issue. Why is it "paranoid" to desire that people NOT say false things about you?

Now this is certainly a problem that is not limited to the non-WoF forum. When someone accuses another of thinking God is "evil", or a "monster", or a "child-abuser", or a "tyrant", or any of the many other colorful terms I've heard lobbed from my side of the debate, it adds NOTHING to the discussion and only causes the division to drive deeper.

This is not a problem that will go away by itself. The staff can't fix it. More rules won't help it. A rearranging of the forum structure will solve little if anything. The ONLY way we can see real and lasting change in this forum is one EVERY ONE OF US allows God to change us from the inside out. We need to see people the way He sees them. We need to have respect for them, even when we disagree. We need to stop bearing false witness against one another. We need to LOVE like Jesus Loved.

Only when we all do this will we see real and lasting change.

Obviously both sides are hurt by various methods of comments. While debating, thinking is crucial; emotions are crucial; and doctrines are crucial. Sinning by accident is part of our sinful nature because those who are in Christ Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

“The regenerate man often has a more difficult time of it than the unregenerate, for he is not one man but two. He feels within him a power that tends toward holiness and God, while at the same time he is still a child of Adam's flesh and a son of the red clay.” A.W. Tozer

We renounce our norm of behavior typical of flesh's desires (Gal. 5:19-20 and Lam. 3:13-16), and we are to continue to renew our minds, through the grace of God and the work the work of the Holy Spirit. We are to be careful because the subjective (i.e. desires) must always be determined by objective considerations of the topics. Grace is we live in the Spirit AND also walk in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in us with all the power and gifts of God, necessary to enable us to walk the noble, spiritual, Son-like life with God. With Grace, we can show mercy and help others (Heb. 4:13-16). Many of us are failing in this department.

 

[probinson]

Pete.
You said people in the Non-WOF sub-forum were saying hostile things about WOF?'

Yes.

I do indeed call that paranoid for a WOF member to be constantly checking out the Non-WOF forum to see what they're saying.

I'm not sure why you think it's paranoid to read another forum. I read lots of forums here, not because I'm paranoid, but because it helps me to see who people are and what they believe. I've read many interesting things in the non-WoF forum, but I've read quite a bit of hostility as well.

No matter what belief you old there will always be someone who disagrees with it. That's just a fact of life.

Yes. But it might just be the biggest understatement of all time to classify many of the things said in the non-WoF forum as mere "disagreement".

Why worry? You have your own forum to post in and it seems like a very good forum.

Let it alone and peace will come.

FTR, I'm not worried about what people say about me. I could care less what people say in the non-WoF forum, but it's clear that it bothers some people here.

But I would have to say that it's silly to suggest that if people continue to say hostile things and the people they are saying those things about just shut up about it, peace will come.

Not likely.