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Why this hate for Islam?

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HumbleSiPilot77

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Funny how none of that approaches my points at all.

You might want to read it again, it is not my fault you are delusional.

Of course, posturing and proclaiming victory when it is not even in sight

Not even in sight? Where is Odin again?

How's that "Surge" doing?

Very well, too bad you can't come to check it out, it is easier to fart behind the screen.

In fact the Iraq war is a perfect analogy for Christianity...

In your deluded head maybe you see resemblance, although Christianity didn't start as this war did. They weren't wanted and they were killed for it. And someone who was not a Christian helped them to achieve victory, not themselves. So, go back to your books and find me a better analogy, less delusional effects preferred.
Hypocritical self-interest masquerading as "goodness" who can't tell when everyone hates you...what do you know, I guess America is a "Christian nation"!

Everyone? Not really,only your pathetic self which is really amusing...

Whatever, kid.

You have to grow up and stop playing WoW before you address me like that.


Sure, life is a movie, you're the "good guy", and at the end you will get a medal from god.

The best part of that is, you do not know who gets what. That will be a funny ending.

Here we have it folks, our "Obi-Wan" and his bride, heroes of modern American Christianity!

Yep, that is the Obi-Wan that beat the heck out of your unbeatable mentality. Take that message to your non-existent gods.

YEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWW!

Quiet you are going to scare your elves.
 
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Jebediah

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blah blah blah self-congratulatory ignorant rant

Odin's alive and well, and the various forms of His restored worship are growing. Ask your chaplain for the entries on Wicca (which is currently the blanket term for all pagan groups) and the soon so be added entry on Asatru. Format look familiar?:
ADDRESS: Asatru worship groups, called kindreds (also hearths, garths, or fellowships), are essentially autonomous. There is no central authority.
The Frigga's Web Association is a service group which can provide current contact information for most kindreds, associations, and federations.

Frigga's Web Association, P. O. Box 75952, Oklahoma City, OK 73147
Web Site: http://www.friggasweb.org/
OTHER NAMES BY WHICH KNOWN: Norse or Germanic Heathenism, the Elder Troth, the Old Way. In Scandinavia the religion is called Asetro, Vor Si r (our way), Forn Si r (Ancient way), Forn sed (the old custom), Nordisk sed (Nordic custom), or Hedensk sed (Pagan custom).
One related branch of the religion is most commonly called Odinism or Folkish Asatru. Norse Wicca is also related but distinct (see WICCA).
LEADERSHIP: Asatru has no central leadership.
Frigga's Web Association is incorporated in the state of Oklahoma. It has 6 Trustees, with day-to-day operations supervised by a Maintainer. FWA is a federation of halls and guilds, each of which also has its own leadership.
MEMBERSHIP: Because of the complete autonomy of kindreds, this cannot be determined. It is estimated that there are approximately 5,000 Asatruar worldwide.
Frigga's Web Association has approximately 60 members, representing a variety of kindreds and associations.
HISTORICAL ORIGIN: Asatru is the modern revitalization of the indigenous religion of Northern Europe.
This religion was almost completely displaced by Christianity in the Middle Ages. Sweden was ruled by a pagan king until 1085 CE and Iceland formally converted in 1000 CE to avoid economic sanctions from its trading partners. Although the religion was no longer practiced, many aspects survived in the culture. The old religion left as its rich legacy much of our traditional legal and ethical systems and our folk customs.
Icelanders never forgot their old religion. Led by the poet and Gothi ("godman") Sveinbjorn Beinteinsson, Icelandic Asatru was recognized by the government there as a legitimate religion in 1972. Since the early 1970's, the religion has been in a period of rapid growth in Europe, North America, Australia, and New Zealand.
Asatru in North America was formally organized in 1973, with the formation of the Asatru Free Assembly. This group dissolved in 1987, in large part based on a deep and serious split over questions of who could consider themselves "Asatru"--that is, what kind of people were acceptable as members of kindreds or groups. Those who felt called by the God/desses? Or those who are descendants of Northern Europeans?
This split led to the formation of two competing organizations, the Troth (known also as the Ring of Troth) and the Asatru Alliance. The Troth maintains that participation in the religion is open to all "True folk", whomsoever these might be, regardless of background, race, gender or sexual orientation, while the Asatru Alliance accepts that some members would not wish to worship with those who were "other" than themselves (in a number of ways, chiefly "race" and sexual orientation).
Since then, a number of independent kindreds and other organizations have been formed (in North America and elsewhere). Most of these generally align with either the Troth's non-racial philosophy or the "folkish" philosophy. This difference in philosophy is not superficial, and has led to two separate religious traditions and religious communities. All Asatruers, however, face the problems of being associated in the public mind with Wiccans and other Neopagans, Satanists, white separatists, and those who base their faith on racial hatred.
Frigga's Web was founded in 1995 to support the goddess Frigga's aims of building a strong, multi-faceted, viable Heathen community in the modern world, and to provide a space that is focused on peace, frith, and the practical arts and skills of running and living in that community. The Halls and Guilds of FWA offer services and information to the larger world of Heathenism outside of Frigga's Web.
BASIC BELIEFS: Although there are many variations in beliefs and practices within this faith, and many ways of describing and classifying these differences, Asatruers all share a defining personal loyalty to, or "Troth" with, the gods and goddesses of the North, such as Odin, Thor, Frigga, the land wights (spirits), and many others; a deep respect for their Germanic religious, cultural and historical heritage; and a strong determination to practice the moral principles followed by their predecessors, including Courage, Honor, and Hospitality.
Asatruers take their knowledge of the gods and the universe from "the lore" (the Prose Edda, the poems of the Poetic Edda, heroic and family sagas, the historical record, and folklore); from science (history, anthropology, linguistics, archaeology, etc.); and from their own analysis, insights, and revelations.
Asatruers believe that the world was formed from the fog created by the interaction of fire and ice. The gods created mankind, then gave them mind and will. The god Rig came to Midgard (this earth), fathered several children, and created social order, so they count themselves kin with the gods.
Originally, there were two tribes of gods, the Aesir and the Vanir. They warred until they saw that mutual destruction was the only outcome; then they formed a powerful and lasting alliance. Now the gods, their kin, and other allies are united in opposition to assorted Jotnar and to the disorder and destruction that they represent.
Asatruers believe that they are working with the gods, as kin, to improve the human condition in this world and to resist the Jotnar. They believe that the gods are leading us in an effort to prepare for Ragnarok, the great battle between the Aesir/Vanir alliance and the Jotun alliance. This battle will mark the end of this world-cycle and the beginning of the next one.
Anthropologist Jenny Blain has identified "narratives" that are used by Asatruers to identify themselves and demarcate their practices and beliefs.
  1. References to "the lore" -- myths and stories of the Aesir and Vanir, sagas, the historic record, and so on. This forms a backdrop to ritual and other events, and to discussion.
  1. Polytheism, with gods spoken of as real entities, separate and distinct, with rounded personalities
  1. Blot and Sumbel, the ritual forms of Asatru, are spoken of as suitable ways to worship or honor the Aesir and Vanir, and as distinct in kind from, e.g., a Wiccan circle.
  1. The possibility of direct communication with these beings, to both speak with them and gain various forms of knowledge.
  1. The possibility of magic. In particular, many Asatru-folk engage in rune-divination or rune-magic. Not all followers of the religion, however, practice, or even believe in, magic. While magic may often be a part of religious practice, not all ritual is magical.
  1. A sense that spirituality is not separate from everyday life, but informs it, and what people do, and how they relate to each other, is in turn part of Heathen spirituality. Many Asatruers place a high value on skills of daily living (such as handicrafts). Part of this is the relation of Asatruers with Earth (focused on by some more than others, though all see Earth as living, or speak of her as personified by a deity).
  1. A sense of individual merit and responsibility, combined with community worth. Asatruers focus on moral values or strictures, individual responsibility, and "being true". Asatruers point out that people have a choice in what they do, and need to accept responsibility for their choice. They contrast this with perceived Christian concepts of either "God's will" or "being tempted into sin" (a word which Asatruers do not use otherwise).
  1. An elaborate concept of 'soul' and 'self' and a concept of personal or family fate or Orlog, which people, and the Norns, weave.
  1. A belief that Elder Kin (deities) also are subject to the workings of Wyrd or fate.
Asatruers honor all the Aesir and Vanir, their gods. Some Asatruers are called most strongly to the worship of one or more particular gods within the pantheon.
Frigga's Web is an organization established to honor the goddess Frigga. Frigga's Web promotes the activities, purposes and benefits that are within Frigga's domains of power and interest. First and foremost, it is a frithstead where Heathens coming from different directions can "leave their politics at the gate" and work together in peace on matters that are important to Heathen life no matter what direction one is coming from.
"Frith" is often translated as "peace", but that does not accurately capture the idea. Frith is the foundation of society and culture, the voluntary abandonment of conflict to pursue a common purpose.
PRACTICES AND BEHAVIORAL STANDARDS: Asatruar are expected to
  • honor the gods with regular offerings;
  • respect and honor the land and the family;
  • live "tru" according to a strict moral code based on honor, courage, and hospitality;
  • keep all promises and sworn oaths;
  • take bold and decisive action when called for;
  • set high goals for themselves;
  • be autonomous and yet interdependent with the rest of the Asatru community; and
  • take responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions.
Frigga's Web is unaffiliated with any other organization. As a Frithstead for all Heathen Folk, it is non-ideological, nonpartisan, and apolitical. Since its inception, Frigga's Web has included members from several major Heathen affiliations, as well as independent Heathens. Members are expected to keep holy frith within Frigga's frithstead, and to refrain from bringing any dishonor, by word or deed, on Frigga and Frigga's Web.
In keeping with the value Frigga places on common courtesy and civility, as well as her support of frith, FWA does not accept behavior or speech that is hateful, malicious, vicious, demeaning, or violent toward anyone, for whatever reasons.
ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE: Asatru worship groups, called kindreds (also hearths, garths, or fellowships), are essentially autonomous. Some kindreds are associated with national or regional organizations which usually operate as federations of kindreds. There is no central authority.
The Frigga's Web Association is a federation of halls and guilds, each dedicated to a different aspect of heathen community, culture, and organization. Each hall or guild has its own head. The halls and guilds all operate under the coordinating authority of the Trustees and the Maintainer.
FWA is incorporated as a religious and educational organization and has received 501(c)3 recognition from the US Internal Revenue Service.
ROLE OF MINISTERS: Asatru religious leaders are commonly called "gothi" (male form) and "gythia" (female form). Gothis/gythias are selected by the kindreds or communities that they serve; kindreds may have one or more gothis/gythias. Each kindred has its own notion of what role a gothi/gythia plays, but generally gothis/gythias develop and lead rituals and handle kindred administrative chores. All gothis and gythias are expected to be familiar with the lore and to be able to lead ceremonies.
The Frigga's Web Association does not select gothis/gythias of its own, although many of its members are gothis/gythias in their own kindreds. The FWA provides a Accreditation Program that allows kindreds to register and document their gothis and gythias.
WORSHIP: Asatru worship may be a group observance or a private offering.
A blot (rhymes with "boat") is an offering to the gods. Usually, a drink such as mead or ale is offered. A blot can be as simple as pouring out a bottle of beer to the gods in your backyard, or it can be an elaborate community ceremony. However, the intent is always the same. In the ancient, traditional societies of Northern Europe, the exchange of gifts created a bond between two people. In a blot, Asatruers thank the gods for their gifts and offer gifts in return. This celebrates and strengthens the bond between the gods and humankind.
A sumbel is a series of ritualized toasts. The participants sit in a circle, and a vessel of drink (a drinking horn full of mead is traditional) is passed around the circle at least three times. In the first round, as the horn reaches each person, he or she offers a short toast to a god or goddess. In the second round, people toast family ancestors or personal heroes. In the third (and later) rounds, people speak however they are moved. They may offer personal prayers, swear oaths, boast of achievements, sing a song, or whatever else seems appropriate. Words spoken in sumbel are witnessed by gods and humans alike and carry great weight. The rite of sumbel can be a profound experience that creates bonds of community among those who share in it.
Asatruers hold blots and sumbels to mark seasonal holidays and the usual life cycles (such as births and weddings) and as needed to give thanks and request assistance. They also commonly hold public ceremonies to witness important oaths, such as formal profession of the religion.
Different kindreds observe different holidays, but there are several observances that are nearly universal in North America. There is generally no specific god or goddess associated with a particular holiday. Each group or individual honors those that seem most appropriate to them....
*clip*
It's not my fault you are delusional. Perhaps it's the blinders you have on, there, Clitus.

And I don't play WoW. Look's like you got your intelligence wrong...again.

You're beginning to bore me.
 
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GeratTzedek

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All of us have our bad moments or bad days when we are just irritable and impatient and says things without tact. I am guilty.

But when it goes on and on and on and... one ad hominem attack after another... It gives the impression that the person doesn't care how they treat others.

Dudes, and you know who you are, you aren't accomplishing anything except to create poor reputations for yourselves. Please, not for me or anyone else, but for your own self, consider taking a deep breath and resolve to attack issues and ideas and beliefs rather than people. No one is fooled by ranting against another -- it convinces no one of anything other than the immaturity of the person ranting. Be the bigger man, and let the other rant without replying in kind.

And for those with whom I've lost my own patience, and crossed the line between attacking ideas and people, I ask your forgiveness.
 
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Meshavrischika

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All of us have our bad moments or bad days when we are just irritable and impatient and says things without tact. I am guilty.

But when it goes on and on and on and... one ad hominem attack after another... It gives the impression that the person doesn't care how they treat others.

Dudes, and you know who you are, you aren't accomplishing anything except to create poor reputations for yourselves. Please, not for me or anyone else, but for your own self, consider taking a deep breath and resolve to attack issues and ideas and beliefs rather than people. No one is fooled by ranting against another -- it convinces no one of anything other than the immaturity of the person ranting. Be the bigger man, and let the other rant without replying in kind.

And for those with whom I've lost my own patience, and crossed the line between attacking ideas and people, I ask your forgiveness.
rude discussion doesn't accomplish anything. I agree with GT... :thumbsup:
 
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JohnLocke

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Why do I hate Islam?

And I do. Not especially proud of that, but here goes:

1. Submission to Islamic Law. The lack of a co-equal place for non-Islamics in Islamic lands.

2. The ease with which it appears Islam can be used to persuade otherwise reasonable people to engage in terroristic activities.

3. The offensive rhetoric of various Islamic political leaders, many coming from Iran, who demonize my country, my political and economic system, and call for terrorist attacks against innocent civilians who couldn't even find Iran on the map, much have done anything to any Iranian.

4. The denigration of Jesus from Deity to mere prophet.

5. The totalitarian nature of many Islamic regimes that operate to inhibit trade, censor the various forms of inquiry and expression.

If there were more acceptance of a secular government in Islam, or actual tolerance of persons of different faith, then I would hope to make the distinction between the so-called, "militant-terrorist Islamic" and "Islam." But I cannot. It is like Communism. Islam as an ideology is fundamentally incompatible and opposed to my world view, the freedoms that I am prepared to kill and be killed defending.

Under such circumstances, how can there be anything but hate? Were Islam to have its way, most of the things that I value politically, economically, and socially would be unlawful and prohibited.

Cheers,
 
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peaceful soul

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Why do I hate Islam?

And I do. Not especially proud of that, but here goes:

1. Submission to Islamic Law. The lack of a co-equal place for non-Islamics in Islamic lands.

2. The ease with which it appears Islam can be used to persuade otherwise reasonable people to engage in terroristic activities.

3. The offensive rhetoric of various Islamic political leaders, many coming from Iran, who demonize my country, my political and economic system, and call for terrorist attacks against innocent civilians who couldn't even find Iran on the map, much have done anything to any Iranian.

4. The denigration of Jesus from Deity to mere prophet.

5. The totalitarian nature of many Islamic regimes that operate to inhibit trade, censor the various forms of inquiry and expression.

If there were more acceptance of a secular government in Islam, or actual tolerance of persons of different faith, then I would hope to make the distinction between the so-called, "militant-terrorist Islamic" and "Islam." But I cannot. It is like Communism. Islam as an ideology is fundamentally incompatible and opposed to my world view, the freedoms that I am prepared to kill and be killed defending.

Under such circumstances, how can there be anything but hate? Were Islam to have its way, most of the things that I value politically, economically, and socially would be unlawful and prohibited.

Cheers,

It will be difficult to improve on that, JohnLocke.:thumbsup: That is the essence of the issue I have with Islam too. Muslims don't even comprehend what their religion is all about in respect to other people who are not Muslims. I could say more, but I don't want to spoil your well thought out reply. All of Islam is not bad, but it is bad enough to deny the true freedoms of others. Once you give in to Islam, there is not recourse. You can't gain back your freedoms. And they won't care because all they will value is Islam, even if it goes against common sense.
 
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randomman

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It will be difficult to improve on that, JohnLocke.:thumbsup: That is the essence of the issue I have with Islam too. Muslims don't even comprehend what their religion is all about in respect to other people who are not Muslims. I could say more, but I don't want to spoil your well thought out reply. All of Islam is not bad, but it is bad enough to deny the true freedoms of others. Once you give in to Islam, there is not recourse. You can't gain back your freedoms. And they won't care because all they will value is Islam, even if it goes against common sense.

why the hypocrisy :sick:

if someone leaves christianity, your God is going to burn him alive for eternity in the afterlife... where is the freedom in that
 
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elwill

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1. Submission to Islamic Law. The lack of a co-equal place for non-Islamics in Islamic lands.
which islamic countries you visit ?
what do you mean by co_equal place for non-islamics

2. The ease with which it appears Islam can be used to persuade otherwise reasonable people to engage in terroristic activities.
oh God , not again

there are many types of hates
if you hate islam , you must talks about islam faith , islam teachings
if you hate muslims , you must mention reasons which common with majority muslims in the world
if you hate specific muslims country personally because of political problems , so not attach your peoblems with islam

if you hate bad muslims , so we not responsible for their actions , there are bad and good people within every relegion

peace
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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if someone leaves christianity, your God is going to burn him alive for eternity in the afterlife... where is the freedom in that

Too bad you can't back that up with Scriptures and it is all idle talk. :sick: Christians tend to believe a sovereign God who is capable of perfect judgment, and who is merciful and saves by grace, if that is something foreign to your understanding.
 
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uberd00b

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While you guys fight over whose imaginary entity has the bigger penis the rest of us non-believers will try and make the world a better place. Religion in it's current form offers nothing but conflict, and is its own worst enemy. As society progresses it will hopefully fade into our superstitious past.
 
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Meshavrischika

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While you guys fight over whose imaginary entity has the bigger penis the rest of us non-believers will try and make the world a better place. Religion in it's current form offers nothing but conflict, and is its own worst enemy. As society progresses it will hopefully fade into our superstitious past.
I agree with this. (though I cling to Christ) I find religion of any type, when organized, to be the epitome of what is NOT wholesome and right. (not applicable to all, but IMO probably 90%)
 
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JohnLocke

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1. What does a co-equal place for non-islamics mean?

In basic it would require that there are no political, economic or social rights or obligations that differ between those of Islamic faith and those who are not Islamic. As I understand it, Islam, as a faith, is opposed to secular government, meaning that it is impossible for Islam to fulfill this as any collection of large numbers of people will develop government and the only institution that Islam allows to exercise that function is religiously based, thereby denying any non-Islamic the opportunity to participate in meaningful political leadership. There are also the historical examples of special taxes and duties levied against persons of non-Islamic faith that Islamics were not required to pay or endure.

It would also require that the State (which under Islam,as a faith doesn't really exist) enforce my right as a non-Islamic to believe as I chose, dress as I chose, provide my daughters with cars and allow them to drive, hold any profession, etc. etc.


2. Which Islamic countries have I visited? Egypt and Saudi Arabia

3. As for the rest of your exposition:

Hate need not be reasonable, so most of your "reasoning" is largely irrelevant. But to address some of each.

Is the hatred engendered by Fascism, solely due to its political philosophy or is part of it inextricably wrapped up in the evil that individuals and nations have done in the name of Fascism?

But allow me to ask this?
1. Does Islam, as an abstract, provide for the existence and maintenance of a secular government? A pluralistic society wherein the rights of all are equal without regard to gender, race, religion, etc?

2. Does Islam, as an abstract, allow for the lending of monies, the mortgage of property, or any extension of credit?

3. Does Islam recognize the right of territorial conquest for any party other than Islam? To explain, I have heard it said that one form of jihad involves "retaking" Islamic lands, and that "Islamic land" is defined as any land wherein Islam has made a significant presence even if it were not a majority therein, and even if that presence was made by force of arms. Further that a piece of geography once attaining the status of "Islamic land" never loses it. Thus it is alway subject to being an appropriate target for this form of jihad. For example most of Iberia. By contrast, I know of no one in the Islamic community who recognizes Israel's right of conquest over Palestine.

As I said, hate is not generally reasonable, but if you wish to engage in a more reasoned debate, I suspect the terms would be more along the lines of these:

"Is Islam, as a social/political/religious ideology fundamentally incompatible with the social/political/religious ideology of Western style democratic pluralism?"

I'd love to engage in that debate if you're willing.

Peace
 
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elwill

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1. What does a co-equal place for non-islamics mean?

In basic it would require that there are no political, economic or social rights or obligations that differ between those of Islamic faith and those who are not Islamic.
i agree
actually , islam didn't make differs between muslims and non_muslims

As I understand it, Islam, as a faith, is opposed to secular government, meaning that it is impossible for Islam to fulfill this as any collection of large numbers of people will develop government and the only institution that Islam allows to exercise that function is religiously based, thereby denying any non-Islamic the opportunity to participate in meaningful political leadership.
i dodn't think that it's fair to ask muslims not obey thier God as he command them . we didn't need to exercise secular government , we believe that God most knower than us

beside , there are in the world many secular governments , tell me which of them succeeded to decrease the ratio of crime

There are also the historical examples of special taxes and duties levied against persons of non-Islamic faith that Islamics were not required to pay or endure.
i argued about Jezia many times in many threads here , so i will make new topic for it , and plz prepare for me your historical examples

It would also require that the State (which under Islam,as a faith doesn't really exist) enforce my right as a non-Islamic to believe as I chose, dress as I chose, provide my daughters with cars and allow them to drive, hold any profession, etc. etc.
what is the wrong with that , every country have it's laws and it's limitations that you must respect .

Is the hatred engendered by Fascism, solely due to its political philosophy or is part of it inextricably wrapped up in the evil that individuals and nations have done in the name of Fascism?
what is the realation between Fascism and islamic laws ?
But allow me to ask this?
1. Does Islam, as an abstract, provide for the existence and maintenance of a secular government? A pluralistic society wherein the rights of all are equal without regard to gender, race, religion, etc?
yes

2. Does Islam, as an abstract, allow for the lending of monies, the mortgage of property, or any extension of credit?
yes all of that are accepted , islam just prohibit usury , in islam it's a big sin but no punishment for it in sharia

3. Does Islam recognize the right of territorial conquest for any party other than Islam? To explain, I have heard it said that one form of jihad involves "retaking" Islamic lands, and that "Islamic land" is defined as any land wherein Islam has made a significant presence even if it were not a majority therein, and even if that presence was made by force of arms.
i didn't realize the issue you talking about , but anyway we not have rights to invade or assault any countries , but we have rights to help islamic countries if invaded (retaking) as palastine for example

Further that a piece of geography once attaining the status of "Islamic land" never loses it. Thus it is alway subject to being an appropriate target for this form of jihad. For example most of Iberia. By contrast, I know of no one in the Islamic community who recognizes Israel's right of conquest over Palestine.
surely , in islam we have right to retaking palastine land . actually we are in sin for leaving them kills our brothers in palastine

As I said, hate is not generally reasonable, but if you wish to engage in a more reasoned debate, I suspect the terms would be more along the lines of these:
you are wellcome to dapate in any point in islam , i just want for us to exchange our thoughts , and differes of our openions will not change the peace between us , i hope

"Is Islam, as a social/political/religious ideology fundamentally incompatible with the social/political/religious ideology of Western style democratic pluralism?"
i will need more details to cover this point , give me examples

I'd love to engage in that debate if you're willing.
i hope so too

Peace
 
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Disippelen

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i didn't realize the issue you talking about , but anyway we not have rights to invade or assault any countries , but we have rights to help islamic countries if invaded (retaking) as palastine for example

surely , in islam we have right to retaking palastine land . actually we are in sin for leaving them kills our brothers in palastine

Hi Elwill, just a short question regarding this... :)

Aren't you aware that Palestine, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, Albania, Bosnia etc. are originally Christian lands? :scratch:

You say that Muslims should help so-called "Islamic countries" who are invaded, but don't you realize that Muslims themselves wrongfully have taken the countries of Christians (and other non-Muslims).

You think that it's unfair that non-Muslims take Islamic lands, but it isn't it equally unfair that Muslims take non-Islamic lands? :sigh:


So, to follow your own logic, Christians and others should start waging a massive war against the Islamic world, since the Islamic world is the product of Islamic aggression over the last 1400 years... Right? :scratch:



Disippelen :)
 
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français

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Too bad you can't back that up with Scriptures and it is all idle talk. :sick: Christians tend to believe a sovereign God who is capable of perfect judgment, and who is merciful and saves by grace, if that is something foreign to your understanding.
Here is a little proverb for you...
Sometimes a way seems right to a man, but the end of it leads to death! - Proverbs 14:12
----
The Bible is clear that the only way to get to Heaven is through Christ, and no Faith, no Heaven. This has been a main belief for 2,000 years.
 
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Secundulus

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surely , in islam we have right to retaking palastine land . actually we are in sin for leaving them kills our brothers in palastine

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

William Shakespear - Julius Caesar
 
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elwill

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Hi Elwill, just a short question regarding this... :)

Aren't you aware that Palestine, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, Albania, Bosnia etc. are originally Christian lands? :scratch:
before jesus (pbuh) what was these lands belong to ? :scratch:
You say that Muslims should help so-called "Islamic countries" who are invaded, but don't you realize that Muslims themselves wrongfully have taken the countries of Christians (and other non-Muslims).
you didn't get it
muslims didn't steal thier land
what happened is that christians whom revert to islam
 
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