Why this hate for Islam?

[randomman]

Hello,

First off, I want to admit.. A few months back, I was very anti Islam. Anyone here could tell you that.

Thankfully though, I promised a member here that I would do more research into Islam and be open minded about it.(The member was Oxy2Hydro)

I have, and have learned a lot. And, I have come to appreciate Islam so much.

And now as I view this forum, it brings me to tears, because people are so hateful here of Islam. Some people say the meanest things, and make the same accusations over and over.

Every Muslim on this site has condemned 9/11 and terrorism against innocents.

Many Muslims are pro Palestine, but so what! If you could not go to work without crossing checkpoints, and if your homes were being bulldozed, I am sure you would be pro palestine too.

and then people call Hamas terrorist, simply because they do not recognize Israel.

Well you know, there are MANY Israeli's who are anti Palestine and want them dead. But we always look over this. A good friend of mine named Eliad is lives in Israel. I told him how I did not like his government because they kill a lot of innocents. He said "So, that is good and I hope we kill more, because they are nasty people." And he had a smile on his face too because he was on webcam.

And sure, many Muslims support the fighters in Iraq. But hey, if 140,000 people invaded your country and pushed and shoved you, wouldn't you?!

Over 600,000 people have died in Iraq, and over 2 million displaced. How does this not upset you guys? How can people go to sleep with a straight face knowing this!!!!

Muslims have EVERY right to want US troops out of Iraq, and they have every right to support the "terrorists" who are simply trying to get the troops to leave.

If people invaded your country, and did countless things bad, wouldn't you want them out?!!!

Sure, many Muslims may support these things.. But how many support killing innocent Jews at a mall, or 9/11, or killing innocent people elsewhere? VERY FEW. And the Muslims on this forum have made it loud and clear many times.

Malaysia is Muslim majority, and is a BEAUTIFUL country. So is Jordan, and Syria, and Turkey, and Egypt, and Morocco, and Albania, and Saudi Arabia.

Sure, Islam is an ultra conservative religion. And I, as a neo liberal, do not like that. But Islam had divisions.. There is fiqh, Aqeedah, etc. How often do Muslims worry about killing people for committing adultery?! Not often! Instead, they worry about other issues, more contemporary issues that the average Joe and Joanne would worry about.

So please, just leave your anti Islam outside. If you sincerely have questions, then go to a MUSLIM FORUM and ask, but do not post the same things here over and over.

If you hate Islam, then that is your right.. But please, do not let it out by making hate threads. Instead, go boxing or something to let your bigotry out.

I am just sick of these hate threads. I am sick of the close mindedness. I am sick of the anti Islamic brainwashing and the same threads over and over. Change is needed.

I would also like to apologize to all Muslims about my behavior here just a few months ago. I was so mean and I made so many false claims and I was so close minded. I hope you guys know that I have changed those views, and I hope you will forgive me for being so rude in the past.

I just had to let this all out. If you are a Muslim hater who does not like what I am saying, then fine. If you do not want to read all this, then that is ok too.. Just leave this thread! I could care less.

Thanks,
Kyle

if i am really touched by your kindness and really care about you as a human, I have one thing to say:

May Allah swt open your heart and guide you to Islam for your own sake ... Amen

 

[GeratTzedek]

Jeb:

I'm really surprised. You honestly aren't informed as to the empiricist exploits of the Vikings? You truly think that men conquering men is related to a particular set of religions, and not to human nature?

 

[Jebediah]

Jeb:

I'm really surprised. You honestly aren't informed as to the empiricist exploits of the Vikings? You truly think that men conquering men is related to a particular set of religions, and not to human nature?

You misunderstand me. I am not appealing to some sort of objective standard of good vs. evil, justice vs. injustice, virtue vs. sin. It's a question of "me and mine" vs. "them and their's". Historically "them and their's" won, and built a world. I fundamentally disagree with just about everything about that world, and I want a world modeled after an older, and I believe better, way. I don't care about some sort of "objective" "view from nowhere" where all empiricism was bad; my view is from somewhere, and if the Vikings had won I would take as much pride and happiness in that world as I resent and hate this world. I'm not against people winning, I am against my people losing.

I think you are confusing what I think is good for everyone (my meta-theory, pan-nationalism or pan-tribalism) and what I want for me and mine (my micro-theory, anti-Christianity and a pagan nation not dominated by the reductive view of monotheism). My anti-Christianity is not based on some sort of universalist appeal to a higher order of justice...I don't need the rhetoric of "moral superiority" to wage my wars. It is based on the very personal, very situated concerns of revenge against an ancient enemy and freedom from a world built in the image of a foreign god.

 

[GeratTzedek]

You misunderstand me. I am not appealing to some sort of objective standard of good vs. evil, justice vs. injustice, virtue vs. sin. It's a question of "me and mine" vs. "them and their's". Historically "them and their's" won, and built a world. I fundamentally disagree with just about everything about that world, and I want a world modeled after an older, and I believe better, way. I don't care about some sort of "objective" "view from nowhere" where all empiricism was bad; my view is from somewhere, and if the Vikings had won I would take as much pride and happiness in that world as I resent and hate this world. I'm not against people winning, I am against my people losing.

I think you are confusing what I think is good for everyone (my meta-theory, pan-nationalism or pan-tribalism) and what I want for me and mine (my micro-theory, anti-Christianity and a pagan nation not dominated by the reductive view of monotheism). My anti-Christianity is not based on some sort of universalist appeal to a higher order of justice...I don't need the rhetoric of "moral superiority" to wage my wars. It is based on the very personal, very situated concerns of revenge against an ancient enemy and freedom from a world built in the image of a foreign god.

Jeb: there is nothing particulary Jewish or Christian about the Golden Rule. Every major spiritual philosopher in the world has advanced it. Therefore if I advance the Golden Rule, I'm not advancing Judaism, or even monotheism.

For someone to say, "It's not about right and wrong, its about what's best for me and mine and screw everyone else," is simple moral immaturity on EVERYONE's scale, including paganism.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Oh, I think we share some values. But I do not respond to threats of virtual punishments on web-forums. If you think I really broke the rules, report me, but I do not respond to normative discourse; you are not my family, lover, friend, kin, or leader and thus I am not open to moral correction from you. You maintain your own behaviour and let the cards fall where they may as far as reports go, and I will do the same.

You haven't answered my question. Do you consider okay for people in this forum, including you or me, to misrepresent others here?

 

[GeratTzedek]

You know, Jeb, the more I think about it, the more your idea about you being open to moral correction only from people within your own microculture seems like your excuse making for doing whatever you like. If that is a major misunderstanding, then please do go back and explain things in a bit more detail, becuase this is surely the way it is coming across.

 

[TheKingOfImmortality]

Hello,

First off, I want to admit.. A few months back, I was very anti Islam. Anyone here could tell you that.

Thankfully though, I promised a member here that I would do more research into Islam and be open minded about it.(The member was Oxy2Hydro)

I have, and have learned a lot. And, I have come to appreciate Islam so much.

And now as I view this forum, it brings me to tears, because people are so hateful here of Islam. Some people say the meanest things, and make the same accusations over and over.

Every Muslim on this site has condemned 9/11 and terrorism against innocents.

Many Muslims are pro Palestine, but so what! If you could not go to work without crossing checkpoints, and if your homes were being bulldozed, I am sure you would be pro palestine too.

and then people call Hamas terrorist, simply because they do not recognize Israel.

Well you know, there are MANY Israeli's who are anti Palestine and want them dead. But we always look over this. A good friend of mine named Eliad is lives in Israel. I told him how I did not like his government because they kill a lot of innocents. He said "So, that is good and I hope we kill more, because they are nasty people." And he had a smile on his face too because he was on webcam.

And sure, many Muslims support the fighters in Iraq. But hey, if 140,000 people invaded your country and pushed and shoved you, wouldn't you?!

Over 600,000 people have died in Iraq, and over 2 million displaced. How does this not upset you guys? How can people go to sleep with a straight face knowing this!!!!

Muslims have EVERY right to want US troops out of Iraq, and they have every right to support the "terrorists" who are simply trying to get the troops to leave.

If people invaded your country, and did countless things bad, wouldn't you want them out?!!!

Sure, many Muslims may support these things.. But how many support killing innocent Jews at a mall, or 9/11, or killing innocent people elsewhere? VERY FEW. And the Muslims on this forum have made it loud and clear many times.

Malaysia is Muslim majority, and is a BEAUTIFUL country. So is Jordan, and Syria, and Turkey, and Egypt, and Morocco, and Albania, and Saudi Arabia.

Sure, Islam is an ultra conservative religion. And I, as a neo liberal, do not like that. But Islam had divisions.. There is fiqh, Aqeedah, etc. How often do Muslims worry about killing people for committing adultery?! Not often! Instead, they worry about other issues, more contemporary issues that the average Joe and Joanne would worry about.

So please, just leave your anti Islam outside. If you sincerely have questions, then go to a MUSLIM FORUM and ask, but do not post the same things here over and over.

If you hate Islam, then that is your right.. But please, do not let it out by making hate threads. Instead, go boxing or something to let your bigotry out.

I am just sick of these hate threads. I am sick of the close mindedness. I am sick of the anti Islamic brainwashing and the same threads over and over. Change is needed.

I would also like to apologize to all Muslims about my behavior here just a few months ago. I was so mean and I made so many false claims and I was so close minded. I hope you guys know that I have changed those views, and I hope you will forgive me for being so rude in the past.

I just had to let this all out. If you are a Muslim hater who does not like what I am saying, then fine. If you do not want to read all this, then that is ok too.. Just leave this thread! I could care less.

Thanks,
Kyle

Frist of all, I think you good person for admiting you own faults on on your end.

Secondly I think its because of number of things.


1. When you have a website with both Christians and Muslims who both belive there holy book is the only turth and every thing els is a lie, your just asking for the two to go out it.

2. I think people are scared. There confussed and angery with the events of 9/11, the war on terror, ect. When people are scared and angery they want somthing to blame. Some, sadly have decided that all Muslims are to blame and that Islam itself is the problem.

3. most people get there info about Islam from the news. Now dont get me wrong, I am not saying the media is against Islam, but between the two who is the news going to focus on? A muslim who is a good guy trying to help the world or a Radical Muslim who kills people? It much like asking between the two who is the media going to watch? A Christian who helps a famliy that lost there home or when Pat Robertson threatens the people of Dover for not teaching Creation with hell?

 

[TheKingOfImmortality]

Not hate for me, but rather dislike. I've seen a lot of dogma and hatred from Abrahamic paths. My religions teacher has dubbed the three to be the most intolerant religions of the world. I just don't like strick dogma, hatred, or rules and it seems most fundamentalism comes from those three faith..which causes a lot of problems.

To tell the turth, I am not sure if I could join a Abrahamic path again ethier. Islam has all the same problams Christainty had for me witch you just named. (at least when all three are taken to literaltly)

 

[GeratTzedek]

I think you guys are VERY naive if you imagine that pagans of old were always more tolerant.

You might want to take out a history text, and learn about the Jews and Christians martyred by "tolerant" "non-dogmatic" pagans.

Human nature is human nature.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Hey, King. you cracked me up. The media is so anti-religion in general. I think they pick inordinantly on Christianity, but Islam, Judaism, and everything else under the sun gets treated badly and unfairly. Basically, the media swings with a SECULAR bias.

 

[ChildishFears]

Namaste francais,

thank you for the post.



if you actually have an interest in learning about another religion the only way to gain a valid cognition of it is to begin your study with an open mind.



it is a valid spiritual refuge.



i would suggest that the nature of this forum is rather contentious debate and discussion so it is natural to expect strong statements either pro or con.

of course your observation applies precisely to those same Muslims that engage in the same behavior.

many people are convinced of the correctness of their view regardless of what anyone else may have to say about thus continually posting the same arguments and critiques.



how do you know this?



i disagree. i think that the Palestinian Intefada is purely political and not actually in the interest of helping those that need it. not to be trite but this situation could be easily resolved if the surrounding Arab nations would simply give Palestine land.



that's not why i call them terrorists. one of the many reasons that i would lable them terrorists is due to their stated lack of concern for killing children through homicide bombings.



perhaps you overlook this but that doesn't seem to be a fair characterization of everyone else.



sounds like you need to change your circle of friends.



no.



don't the Muslims that want the international troops there have any "rights" or say regarding this? why do the ones that kill the women and children get to decide these things for the rest of them?



firstly, the Muslims on this forum only speak for themselves and therefore cannot constitute anything resembling a unity of views within the Muslim world. secondly, you have no idea how many Muslims support killing Jews or killing Americans simply because they are Jewish or American and to claim this knowledge for yourself tends to undercut the point which you are attempting to make, in my estimation.



do more studying. i don't know what you studied but it certainly doesn't seem consonant with the political operation of many Muslim nations.



of course Muslims are humans and thus they have the same concerns as other humans.... no point in even saying this unless you were previously of the opinion that Muslims weren't humans and feel remorse at your prior view.



why not? this is the Non-Christian religions section of this forum and it is, consequently, the only place to ask Muslims questions on this forum as they hardly ever (i can't recall reading a single post in the Science subforums, for instance) visit anywhere else on the site.



it seems to me that your chief complaint here is how you feel when you read a thread which is anti Islam. perhaps you shouldn't read those threads if they bother you? that you consider disagreement with Islam to be brainwashing is quite unusual to my way of thinking.

metta,

~v

I agree

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

As informed as usual, I see. Ah well, can't blame you for whistling in the dark.

My chief patron is Odin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin
http://alkman1.blogspot.com/2007/10/carl-gustav-jung-on-wotan.html

Surely, that made a lot of difference...

I let you go back to your comic books you worship...

 

[Jebediah]

You know, Jeb, the more I think about it, the more your idea about you being open to moral correction only from people within your own microculture seems like your excuse making for doing whatever you like. If that is a major misunderstanding, then please do go back and explain things in a bit more detail, becuase this is surely the way it is coming across.

Well, it's like your "Golden Rule" comment. I don't care who advanced or why, I don't agree with it, nor think it is representative of what people do in the world. Therefore your rebuke using it just doesn't mean anything to me. It's not that I only care about moral rebuke from a certain group of people, I just don't accept the MONOtheist, MONOculturist assumptions about what right and wrong are.

Let's go back to your comment about my "me and mine" schtick. I don't believe there is any objective, universal moral standard, period. I don't even believe that there can be universal, objective knowledge claims. The attempt to base ethics (and all of our notions) on some transcendent value system is just not what I believe to be correct. I believe in a situated philosophy, where relata are define by their relations to the whole, and everything else comes out of that. The result is an ethic that is realistic and true in that it actually describes how people really are in the real world.

Earlier you talked about the "fear of other" being the problem of the Jews. Now, let's ignore the way that conveniently pathologizes anyone who might have a valid criticism of Judaism as a culture or religion, and just look at the moral implication of your words, what you are assuming: you assume that we all share the pluralist, "let's all live together in shiny-happiness" ethic, and that anything that interferes with the pattycake games is inherently bad. I disagree, and would redefine your pathologized and moralistic term "fear of other" as "perfectly reasonable self-preservation instinct". See how a different set of moral assumptions naturally lead to a different classification of moral behaviour?

Now, what makes the pagan more "tolerant" (gods, I hate that word) than the monotheist is that I know and understand you have a different ethical framework, and that your choices and what you consider morally salient will naturally come out differently than mine. You, and every other monotheist out there who hasn't been eaten by the relativism monster, assume that your morals are the "real" ones, and just like Bushmaster, with his normal knowledge of history and deep understanding of beliefs other than his own, you condescend to my value system, rather than trying to see what it implies or that it might have something more to it than your simplistic and patronizing conclusion.

Very simply, your assumptions about what is right differ almost completely from my own. You believe there is an objective epistemic standard for moral claims, that your god revealed them, and that all that it takes to be moral is to reconcile your attitudes and behaviours to that standard. I believe in a distributed network of "thick ethical concepts" or virtues (see Bernard Williams, "Ethics and the Limits of Philosophy") which arise naturally out my concerns as a situated being, who is historical, spatial, and embodied in a world (see Donna Haraway, "Situated knowledges: the science question in feminism and the. privilege of partial perspective"). Therefore what is moral for me might not be moral for you, because your set of relations differ from my own. This is not some "low-brow" or "immature" moral theory, it is simply one that acknowledges a different foundational approach. I believe, literally, that it is moral for each person to pursue their own interests, and that those interests are informed by their situatedness.

What seems so interesting to me is that this entire way of looking at the world is not unique to me or other extremists. It is a normal component of "identity politics", and when seen in that light we don't bat an eye at any other struggle and resistance oriented politics. It's normal for black radicals to look out for black interests first, for radical feminists to look out for women first, etc. This is all due to the notion of a situated ethics, and to a large part my philosophy has been influenced by the philosophies of radical unionism and identity politics. This is simply the natural consequence of the rejection of MONOculture...your values aren't mine, and you should fight for them (or not, as they dictate) and the same goes for me. MONOculture says that values are defined by the "in" group and that anyone who is in the "out" group must redefine their ethics (and themselves thereby) to conform or be "wrong".

It's very funny to have the naive and typical MONOculturist assumption of the universality of their ethics result in your calling my ethics immature. I have studied philosophy for the better part of the last 15 years, and been specifically studying ethics for the last five. I have read every major work on ethical philosophy in the western and eastern traditions, and you are simply wrong. Aristotle in the Nicomachean Ethics does not put forth the Golden Rule, nor does Plato in the dialogues or the Republic. None of the Stoics do, nowhere does it exist in Kant unless you truly mangle the Categorical Imperative. It is not in Mill, Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche (except to rant against it), or even the modern work of Williams, etc.

Also, while it does appear in some faiths, it certainly does not in all, and certainly does not in mine. What is ironic is that your very assumption of the universalizability of your ethical stances is an example of exactly why I hate monotheism. It's like an imperialism of the mind, a virus of reduction and abstraction.

BTW, I also don't think war is bad, I think democracy is bad, I don't think all people are "equal" (again, what would this notion mean without a "god's-eye-view" to look from? People are not equal to each other, all are unique and the attempt to make them all the same is fantasy), I do not believe in the "sanctity" of human life, I don't believe there is any sort of objective standard for metaphysical, epistemological, or ethical claims (all claims are from somewhere, all discourse is imperative), and I don't believe in the notion of moral "innocence" or "guilt". I do believe that races differ fundamentally in character, though I do not believe that they can be judged along any linear scale against each other, and I do not agree that social pluralism is good or natural. I don't like communism or capitalism, don't think the common human is competent to make large-scale political decisions (part of the reason I believe in small tribes). In fact, I disagree with the fundamental assumptions of modern civilization and the political construct the "nation-state". I do believe different morals apply to the self-group vs. the other group.

Hmmm, let's see if there are any other modern heresies and thought-crime I can commit...none coming to me at the moment. Maybe later.

 

[Jebediah]

Surely, that made a lot of difference...

I let you go back to your comic books you worship...

Again, you demonstrate your vast knowledge and understanding. I suppose you think Buddhists worship Buddha and that Taoism worships some guy named Tao.

So, since Christianity is a Jewish heresy that stole the premises of the surrounding pagan metaphysics, does that mean that Christianity is twice-made up? Fictionalized from a fiction?

You know what I think? I think you feel the call of the old gods, and so you have to dismiss them and trivialize their history to maintain your acceptance of your foreign faith. It's okay, I can empathize with that, I did very much the same thing for a long time. The call of blood can be very disquieting. As Jung noted in his "Wotan" essay, it has never been particularly safe nor comfortable to fall into the hands of a living god. Keep dismissing long enough, and you might die before you have to deal with them...good luck!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Again, you demonstrate your vast knowledge and understanding. I suppose you think Buddhists worship Buddha and that Taoism worships some guy named Tao.

Yea, that is all you do, you "suppose"... When challenged though, you show your fangs, take a stab at "Oh I am logical" jargon and argue stuff that is only alive and well in WoW and other fantasy satisfiers. Keep on crying, you have been conquered, and there is no going back.

So, since Christianity is a Jewish heresy that stole the premises of the surrounding pagan metaphysics, does that mean that Christianity is twice-made up? Fictionalized from a fiction?

Yes, with only difference that this fiction was real, and that is why your fantasy gods are in online gaming now... Take that fiction and enjoy it.

You know what I think?

Nope, and I don't care...

Keep dismissing long enough, and you might die before you have to deal with them...good luck!

Send them to me, I will deal with them now... Grab your ouija board and send them away...

 

[Jebediah]

Yea, that is all you do, you "suppose"... When challenged though, you show your fangs, take a stab at "Oh I am logical" jargon and argue stuff that is only alive and well in WoW and other fantasy satisfiers. Keep on crying, you have been conquered, and there is no going back.



Yes, with only difference that this fiction was real, and that is why your fantasy gods are in online gaming now... Take that fiction and enjoy it.



Nope, and I don't care...



Send them to me, I will deal with them now... Grab your ouija board and send them away...

I notice all your military trappings and US nationalism...looks like your intelligence got its facts wrong again. My tradition (and most real occultists in general) don't use Ouija boards. Those were spiritualists in the 19th century and a board game. We use different methods entirely, and if you saw them you would be amazed at how much they look like your liturgy...except they work. Better luck next time.

Keep showing them true colors, boy. Such an easy straight man...I couldn't have manufactured a better foil for my purposes. Ignorant, belligerent, and proud of it...the perfect Christian.

 

[elijah115]

Hello,

First off, I want to admit.. A few months back, I was very anti Islam. Anyone here could tell you that.

Thankfully though, I promised a member here that I would do more research into Islam and be open minded about it.(The member was Oxy2Hydro)

I have, and have learned a lot. And, I have come to appreciate Islam so much.

And now as I view this forum, it brings me to tears, because people are so hateful here of Islam. Some people say the meanest things, and make the same accusations over and over.

Every Muslim on this site has condemned 9/11 and terrorism against innocents.

Many Muslims are pro Palestine, but so what! If you could not go to work without crossing checkpoints, and if your homes were being bulldozed, I am sure you would be pro palestine too.

and then people call Hamas terrorist, simply because they do not recognize Israel.

Well you know, there are MANY Israeli's who are anti Palestine and want them dead. But we always look over this. A good friend of mine named Eliad is lives in Israel. I told him how I did not like his government because they kill a lot of innocents. He said "So, that is good and I hope we kill more, because they are nasty people." And he had a smile on his face too because he was on webcam.

And sure, many Muslims support the fighters in Iraq. But hey, if 140,000 people invaded your country and pushed and shoved you, wouldn't you?!

Over 600,000 people have died in Iraq, and over 2 million displaced. How does this not upset you guys? How can people go to sleep with a straight face knowing this!!!!

Muslims have EVERY right to want US troops out of Iraq, and they have every right to support the "terrorists" who are simply trying to get the troops to leave.

If people invaded your country, and did countless things bad, wouldn't you want them out?!!!

Sure, many Muslims may support these things.. But how many support killing innocent Jews at a mall, or 9/11, or killing innocent people elsewhere? VERY FEW. And the Muslims on this forum have made it loud and clear many times.

Malaysia is Muslim majority, and is a BEAUTIFUL country. So is Jordan, and Syria, and Turkey, and Egypt, and Morocco, and Albania, and Saudi Arabia.

Sure, Islam is an ultra conservative religion. And I, as a neo liberal, do not like that. But Islam had divisions.. There is fiqh, Aqeedah, etc. How often do Muslims worry about killing people for committing adultery?! Not often! Instead, they worry about other issues, more contemporary issues that the average Joe and Joanne would worry about.

So please, just leave your anti Islam outside. If you sincerely have questions, then go to a MUSLIM FORUM and ask, but do not post the same things here over and over.

If you hate Islam, then that is your right.. But please, do not let it out by making hate threads. Instead, go boxing or something to let your bigotry out.

I am just sick of these hate threads. I am sick of the close mindedness. I am sick of the anti Islamic brainwashing and the same threads over and over. Change is needed.

I would also like to apologize to all Muslims about my behavior here just a few months ago. I was so mean and I made so many false claims and I was so close minded. I hope you guys know that I have changed those views, and I hope you will forgive me for being so rude in the past.

I just had to let this all out. If you are a Muslim hater who does not like what I am saying, then fine. If you do not want to read all this, then that is ok too.. Just leave this thread! I could care less.

Thanks,
Kyle

I don't really think anything that Hamas does or insurgents in Iraq do can be justified. I don't support murder whether it is by US soldiers or pro palestine or pro Israel groups. I refuse to empathise. Israel is a small country surrounded by plenty of other countries with "loads" (not insufficient) land. I find it impossible to believe that those in Palestine don't have enough land to co exist with Israel without taking Jerusalem as their capital. I also find it impossible to believe that the US troops wouldn't have to leave if all insurgents gave up arms and became law abiding. God does not want us saved so that we can kill each other over superfacial things like religion or land. You can't love God and murder another human being.

 

[Kutte]

GerTzedek,
You wrote:
Basically, the media swings with a SECULAR bias.

Now, that's an interesting observation. However, it is not the mission of the media at large to represent or promote any particular religious views but to present the news as it happens.
Christianity as well as Islam and Judaism have their own media outlets.

Kutte

*****************************
Take a peek at my WAR PRAYER blog.

 

[armyman_83]

Both. Also above underlined has been occurred in the history of mankind. Islam is all about hostile take over, has always been, and will always be, no matter how much tactics change...

Agreed.

 

[Loner]

I was starting to become an Islam hater, witch is somthing that I am vary ashamed of......


I have hard time showing my face in religous groupes like this now.

I think for me I was cought up in the momment. Pluse I was new to the religon and was just starting to learn about it. (my own faith) Pluse I was going threw some dark times in my life that Islam played role in (but I dont blame the religon)

I will never know for sure why I acted the way I did but I know I will regert it for the rest of my life....