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In what way?
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What about just pursuing a life in Christ in love and faith?What the future holds is within bible prophecy. Pursuing bible prophecy is fellowshipping with God.
Doug
What about just pursuing a life in Christ in love and faith?
We could die tomorrow, and if we just focus on future Bible prophecy [which the Jews do not], what have you gained?
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Yes it is what it means. Biblewriter, you just don't acknowledge the spiritual and symbolic. No matter how explicit you think you are...you're going to find out you're wrong.What was shown to me clearly was that you think Ezekiel's temple was in heaven. But opinions do not change the words of scripture.
Tat is not what this scripture means. it means that no scripture can be interpreted without considering all the rest of scripture, which is exactly what you are doing. You are so certain that your system of interpretation is correct that all the explicit statements in the world will never change your interpretations.
In the 8 part thread titled "The Case For The Israel of God" I showed you there is an "Israel of God" that is all believers....and even referred to the OT prophets that Paul quotes to show how it applies spiritually.In the thread titled "The Real Meaning of Romans 9-11, I showed you that Paul agrees with me. But you rejected that, just as you reject the Old Testament.
Again, this has degenerated into a childish argument, so over and out.
Thank you; your post was truly informative.
I had considered the other examples you had given......but what makes the example of Daniel different is that the eye-witness of Christ in the furnace was seen by a NONBELIEVER, King N.
the other two examples you gave in the OT were by men of God. Doesn't that prove that the appearance of Christ in Daniel was a literal physical appearance?
You must remember this was the "glorified Christ"...that is why Paul couldn't see.For contrast, when Christ physically appeared to Paul to ask why he was persecuting him; his companions did not see....only heard.
Praise be to God
Marantha
What does the US have to do with it?Your reference to the jews here is a very, very, very poor example.
The ENTIRE reason why MOST jews are blind to the truth of Yashua right now is because they DID NOT focus on prophecy more. If they had focused on the Daniel 70 week prophecy, they would have known EXACTLY when to expect Yashua. And the Word of God says they will suffer terribly VERY soon because of it.
Also, if God gave the jews the witness in Daniel of exactly when The Christ would come..... why, oh why do people think that he did not give US the timeline of the season of his return?
Come Lord Jesus
Marantha
Why would anybody try to package it as choice that has to be made like you have? I don't get it.What about just pursuing a life in Christ in love and faith?
We could die tomorrow, and if we just focus on future Bible prophecy [which the Jews do not], what have you gained?
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I do. I just don't dismiss history in favor of the future...I look at both. You might try that.
Why would anybody try to package it as choice that has to be made like you have? I don't get it.
You ask me what was so great about that post (paraphrased). I answered that particular question.
Now you are taking that answer and (mis)using it as a response to something else.
For a biblical answer to your second question...."what have you gained?"
Is this supposed to mean something?I do look at history and I look at the future. That's why I understand that Luke 21 is referring to 70 AD and Matt 24 is talking about the future.
I noticed that you ran far from addressing these specific scriptures and I also notice that when you asked when Jesus made a physical appearance and were shown the example of the 4 in the furnace you did not acknowledge that you were again in error.
Luke 21
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
I usually do not waste my time addressing this kind of stuff as it is, as I said,a waste of time. Anyone that holds these views is spiritually blind and not really interested in the truth because there are so many scriptures that prove these beliefs to be false. You can't face the truth in the above scriptures.
I wonder how it is even possible to hold these views. I just don't get it. When the scriptures say something and you just blow it off like it isn't even there. WHY? What do you stand to gain by lying to yourself?
Is this supposed to mean something?
You've made no point at all except how you ignore that these are the same event from different viewpoints of focus.
Let's look at how each talks to the event:
Matthew 24:1, 2:
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them,Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.
Luke 21:5, 6:
5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said,
6 As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.
Mark 13:1, 2:
As He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples *said to Him, Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!
2 And Jesus said to him, Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down
This is why you have no point...it doesn't take rocket science to understand this is the same event.
What you have is each writer laying out the same thing from their viewpoint...that's all.
How do we know...because the same question is asked by the disciples:
Mathhew 24:3:
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?
Luke 21:7:
7 They questioned Him, saying, Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?
Mark 13: 3, 4:
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately,
4Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?
Doesn't take much to figure this out.
It's description of the same event...Mark gives the fewest details, Matthew gives the most detail, and Luke is in the middle.
You make no point at all. You just think you did.
Also, let me dd that Luke was not there, he's reporting what what was told to him. He tells you that when he opens his gospel in Luke 1, 2:
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
Luke is basically a reporter. Matthew and Mark were there. that's why they sound almost the same.
Do your research!
You're still not getting it...so keep your mindset. The ONLY WAY you get the full picture is by reading the accounts of all three.Are you blind? Let me take the liberty to answer for you....yes spiritually. Why is it that those who claim everything is spiritual are spiritually blind.
How is it that you cannot comprehend that Luke 21 says that "nations will rise against nations etc, etc. and then says ......But before all these......and then taking us to what happens in 70 AD.
How is it that you cannot comprehend that Matt 24 says that "nations will rise against nations etc, etc. and then says......THEN .........taking ust to what happens in the future
Do you not understand English? Is there a translation problem.
No, the problem is inside you. You are lying to yourself. That is the only explanation that there can be as I know there is not a translation problem and it seems you can comprehend English.
Stop this foolishness and face the truth.
You're still not getting it...so keep your mindset. The ONLY WAY you get the full picture is by reading the accounts of all three.Are you blind? Let me take the liberty to answer for you....yes spiritually. Why is it that those who claim everything is spiritual are spiritually blind.
How is it that you cannot comprehend that Luke 21 says that "nations will rise against nations etc, etc. and then says ......But before all these......and then taking us to what happens in 70 AD.
How is it that you cannot comprehend that Matt 24 says that "nations will rise against nations etc, etc. and then says......THEN .........taking ust to what happens in the future
Do you not understand English? Is there a translation problem.
No, the problem is inside you. You are lying to yourself. That is the only explanation that there can be as I know there is not a translation problem and it seems you can comprehend English.
Stop this foolishness and face the truth.
Now this makes no sense. Since you believe that we are half way through the 70th week and about to begin 3 1/2 years of Great Tribulation. It would be impossible for a 3rd Temple to be built in time for your order of events as it would take much longer than 5 years to build a temple. The Mormon temple in Salt Lake City took 40 years to complete. Surely a 3rd Jewish temple would be greater.
I'm still not getting it?You're still not getting it...so keep your mindset. The ONLY WAY you get the full picture is by reading the accounts of all three.
They are speaking of the same event, they just give more or less detail.
Luke is saying the same thing Matthew said differently because it's condensed.
All Jesus is telling the disciples is they themselves would be persecuted and killed. All of them were except John.
Nations didn't rise against Nations at that time because of Roman rule. When the Romans Empire fell apart that is when "nations rose against nations".
Yeah...I guess they all should have said the exact same thing so it would be collusion...huh?ebedmelech;62749701]
I'm still not getting it?
I can't make any clearer than to say Luke says "but before all these" referring to 70ad and Matt says "Then" referring to what happens in the future.
I bet I could list 5 or 6 other differences between Luke and Matt showing that they are not the same event...........BUT if you can't grasp this part, I see no way you can grasp any of it.
I've got to admit, I just don't get it. Why can you not grasp something so simple. What is there to gain by denying fact?
I guess the real problem is that you can't hide behind spiritualization on this. There is no where to run......there is no excuse.
Luke tells a story and says but before all these.
Matt tells the same story and says then
Then and but before all these are not the same thing............so how do you lie to yourself.......and why would you. Aren't you interested in the truth.
See the real problem is I can take what you're selling and just cut it pieces with fact after fact and scripture after scripture. There is not even the slighest chance that what you are selling is truth. What is the point in deceiving ones self?
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Matt 24 and Luke 21 are the same events. I guess if you don't pay attention to detail or have any insight to the truth, you could mistake Matt 24 and Luke 21 to be talking about the same thing.
Try reading them carefully and pay attention to detail........and then you will have understanding.
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
They are talking of the same event
http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089-5/#post53043894
What the sign?
Matt 24:3......and what? the Sign
Mark 13:4.....and what? the Sign...
Luke 21:7.....and what? the Sign.....
I disagree.Here you go. I could point to many things, but this is so simple. All you have to do is look at a few words and you can tell that Luke 21 at one point talks about 70ad and Matt talks about the end times. All you have to do is know the difference between "but before all these" and "Then"
As long as you don't do a Zeke on these words and change the meaning you should be able to understand.
.
Hello pot, meet kettle....
That doesn't make your case either. However I won't allege (like you), that because someone doesn't see the scripture as I do, that they "lie to themselves". That would be quite presumptive of me.A prophet speaks and Joe writes
There will come a time that in one week there will be and a world wide earthquake and then rain, hail, snow and sleet in every part of the world. But before all these there will be darkness on the earth for 7 days from a volcano.
A month later a prophet speaks and Bill writes
There will come a time that in one week there will be and a world wide earthquake and then rain, hail, snow and sleet in every part of the world.
After these things there will be darkness on the earth for 7 days from a cloud.
I know you think they are talking about the same thing......but they are not.
The only really problem that I see in what you believe is that it does not agree with the Bible.....in countless places. But go ahead and turn a blind eye to the truth. Lie to yourself and believe this foolishness.
This being Passover, I feel this is the perfect time to focus on why just as Jesus fulfilled the Passover, He fulfilled the temple too!
Many that hold that there will be a 3rd temple are hard pressed to justify that from scripture.
They lean quite heavily on Ezekiel 40-48. A temple that is in a vision to Ezekiel, in which Ezekiel is escorted by "a man" with a rod.
When it comes to the NT the temple fades away. This starts with Jesus declaring Himself to be the temple. Jesus makes this declaration in Matthew 12:6 as He confronts the Phariseees:
6 But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
Jesus is greater than the temple because every sacrifice offered at this temple pointed to Him!!! Hebrews 9:11, 12 makes this point:
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Jesus is the perfect tabernacle/temple not of this creation, and through His own blood, He entered the holy place ONCE AND FOR ALL obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION.
Notice the finality in once and for all this means there will be no more! So what use is a third temple??? It has no use!!!
Jesus also called Himself the temple in John 2:19:
Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
That is sufficient to start this discussion of why there will be no third temple!!!
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