Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

7xlightray · Feb 4, 2016

nomadictheist said:
In terms of raising it up, that's not at all what He said. These are your inferences born from your need to make our Lord and Savior less than He is.

Jesus in one sense did raise himself. Jesus did not say he would literally raise himself. You are reading that into the passage, and ignoring what he meant by it. Jesus did not literally raise himself, the Father did. The scripture declare the Father raised Jesus from the dead. If you are correct, then somewhere we would read, that Jesus raised himself from the dead, but we don't read that, instead we read the Father raised him.

Actually it makes him more, not less, for then he truly was tempted, and resisted sin.

nomadictheist said:
I could go on posting the scriptures that proclaim Jesus' deity, His pre-existence, and more, but you would continue to tell me that "the Bible doesn't actually say what it seems to be saying" and that I "have to understand it as meaning something entirely different." You say that Jesus didn't literally raise His body up in 3 days. Jesus said He was going to. You say Jesus didn't have the authority to literally take up His life again after He laid it down. Jesus said He did. But you say "no, no! He doesn't mean that literally! You must not take what He said at a face value!" Jesus said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was, I am," but you say "no, no. That's not the truth. Jesus didn't actually exist before Abraham in any real sense."

I know the passages that you could use, I know them very well.

Jesus is speaking in dark sayings, when speaking to the Pharisees, and Jews.

Simon Crosby · Feb 4, 2016

I can't believe anyone could read the Holy Bible and then reject the Trinity.

7xlightray · Feb 4, 2016

Berean777 said:
The trinity doctrine says that Jesus is uncreated and is therefore NOT a creature. Yet those who misrepresent the trinity doctrine, believe that Jesus has been created and is a creature of the Father and within the same breathe say that the trinity doctrine has turned God into a created being.

The personhood of the Christ is not created. Just because those who oppose the trinity doctrine say that Jesus was born or begotten, doesn't mean that the form that he took on was the commencement of the creation of his personhood, nor does it suggest that any Old Testament epiphany of Christ is in someway a creation of his personhood.

If Jesus person is God, then Jesus could not have been tempted in every way we are, for God cannot be tempted.

Berean777 said:
When we look at scripture in totality we see the Christ as being the introduction of the Holy Bible and the conclusion of the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is his autobiography and so what is before and after scripture, we are not told. So in this regard we cannot make presumptions of what Christ was before or after the Holy Bible. If the Bible says that the Christ is the Creator, then to fashion him in the image of a creature, that is a created being who is created undermines the Holy Bible from the introduction within the Genesis account, all the way to the conclusion in Revelation of John.

The Bible does tell us, that he did not know the Father before he was born of Marry. This doctrine is stopping you from seeing this, because to this doctrine, Jesus must be God, and anything that would threaten that, must be rejected. For some reason we think 2000 years is a good foundation to stand on, years does not make a thing any more right. A Creed that came some few hundred years later, is not anything to stand on. Where you there when they drafted this up, or where you there to witness the Apostles teaching? I was not, so I will stick to the Bible only.

And Paul Preach the true God to those that where confused about this God Paul was preaching. They thought there were gods, because he taught Jesus and the resurrection, and Paul taught them Jesus is a man, and is going to return as a man. He did not teach Jesus is God. He also taught clearly, the only God is the Father, as Jesus taught in at lest three places, as God said, we are to know no other God, then the God Israel knew.

As for creation those passages do not teach Jesus created heaven and earth. Jesus is the beginning of the new creation, and everything through him toward the new creation.

Berean777 said:
Does anyone want to say that Jesus Christ's personhood (persona) is a created creature?

If so, then you unwittingly destroy the scriptures from the beginning to the end. The lie is to believe that the Christ is a created being.

That's not the lie!

Righttruth · Feb 4, 2016

antletems said:
cgaviria

Is not belief in the Trinity a key element in being a Christian?

No. It is the belief and obedience to Christ.

Righttruth · Feb 4, 2016

Simon Crosby said:
I can't believe anyone could read the Holy Bible and then reject the Trinity.

I accept the Trinity, not according to Nicene Creed!

civilwarbuff · Feb 4, 2016

Righttruth said:
I accept the Trinity, not according to Nicene Creed!

Huh????

justcoolforyou · Feb 4, 2016

cgaviria said:
The teaching of the trinity skews the understanding of certain basic truths, and they are the following,

Jesus Christ, birthed in the beginning of creation, which is why he is called a "son", by the Father, whose identity is I AM, as the Father does not have a name, as he is not created as we are to have name, and was said to be "engendered" today, which was day one of creation. A son does not precede a father nor does a son come at the same time as a father, but a father comes first, then a son, and since the father never began, therefore the son did indeed begin, as that is the next natural order of precedence. Jesus Christ is also said to be "only son", and this is because he was the only being created directly by the Father, and then all life came into existence through Jesus.

Before Jesus Christ began speaking things into existence, the Father created first, which included preparing the heavens, founding the earth which had water, and bringing forth the spirit of God that bore upon the water. When these things came into existence, day one had begun, and in that same day, Jesus Christ then uttered his first words, "let there be light".

Jesus Christ was the spirit of God that bore upon the water, and this is the evidence of his pre-existence in the Genesis account, and the identity of this spirit was a mystery until his name was revealed thousands of years later, as Jesus, which is when he became incarnate of a virgin. This spirit of God, is also the one who started speaking, hence why Jesus Christ is also called the word of God, because he spoke things into existence, which included all life.

On day four of creation, when Jesus Christ spoke the luminaries of the heavens into existence, is the first day other living beings came forth into existence, which were angels. Of these angels, the angel YHWH became revealed, which was the name revealed to Moses when the angel YHWH gave his own name to Moses in a burning bush, and this was name that the Hebrews used to seek God in the old covenant until much later we were given a new name, for a new covenant, which is the name of Jesus Christ, which is even higher than the name of YHWH, and by whom only in the name of Jesus can a man now be saved. This angel named YHWH was the being Jesus Christ then spoke to on day six of creation, which is why Jesus said, "Let us...", as he was not speaking to the Father, as the Father already gave Jesus words to speak, but instead, it was Jesus speaking to this angel. This angel, was indeed a holy spirit, that then breathed into man the breath of life, as commanded, and thus demonstrated that life not only came by the utterances of Jesus Christ, but also by holy spirit giving forth breath to bring forth life. And this same type of life giving holy spirit, is the same kind of spirit that is said to raise Jesus Christ from the dead, and also all who are believers and sons of the resurrection as well, as it is holy spirit inside each that brings forth life.

There is not just one holy spirit, but many. Each believer receives a distinct holy spirit, which is indeed an angel given to each believer to inhabit the body of each believer, that is sent from heaven to guide, teach, reveal things of the future, give power, sanctify, and perfect.

For a deeper study on these topics, I recommend reading the following studies,

http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2016/01/08/why-the-trinity-is-a-false-doctrine/

http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2015/12/1...-also-began-only-the-father-has-no-beginning/

http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2015/12/2...ng-that-lives-in-us-that-is-sent-from-heaven/

http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2016/01/15/the-power-of-the-spirit-and-being-baptized-in-holy-spirit/

When did the God the father become a father? For God does not change?

Righttruth · Feb 4, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
Huh????

I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the Apostles Creed.

Wgw · Feb 4, 2016

Righttruth said:
I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the Apostles Creed.

Well, at the very least I can respect that. I think you are stopping short of the goalpost, but to the very real extent you are earnestly in pursuit of the truth, I salute you.

cgaviria · Feb 4, 2016

justcoolforyou said:
When did the God the father become a father? For God does not change?

Becoming a father has nothing to do with "changing", but instead, reflects the very birthing of a son. One becomes a father when a son is birthed.

DrBubbaLove · Feb 5, 2016

cgaviria said:
Becoming a father has nothing to do with "changing", but instead, reflects the very birthing of a son. One becomes a father when a son is birthed.

So Jesus was "birthed" twice???
Who was Jesus first mother?

Berean777 · Feb 5, 2016

7xlightray said:
If Jesus person is God, then Jesus could not have been tempted in every way we are, for God cannot be tempted.

An attempt at tempting God is an act of fail, as Satan demonstrated that fail.

The Bible does tell us, that he did not know the Father before he was born of Marry.

John 17:5

This doctrine is stopping you from seeing this, because to this doctrine, Jesus must be God, and anything that would threaten that, must be rejected.

Christian Forum, which has a statement of faith is completely different to yours.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

For some reason we think 2000 years is a good foundation to stand on, years does not make a thing any more right. A Creed that came some few hundred years later, is not anything to stand on.

Shall we right off the last 2000 years of human learning and development and revert to our cave dwellings. After all why should we think that 2000 years of human learning and development be a good foundation to stand on, let's just start afresh right?

Hmmmm.........

Where you there when they drafted this up, or where you there to witness the Apostles teaching? I was not, so I will stick to the Bible only.

I wasn't there when Jesus was on earth, but I truly believe in him. I wasn't there to witness that the Bible is the genuine collection of the apostles letters, but I truly believe it. I wasn't there to witness the apostles teachings, but I truly believe that the letters are from them.

So not being there as a first hand witness, still doesn't deter me from accepting what has been handed down to me. After all if I accept the last 2000 years of human learning and development handed down to me.

Why would any rational person do away with 2000 years of church history.

And Paul Preach the true God to those that where confused about this God Paul was preaching. They thought there were gods, because he taught Jesus and the resurrection, and Paul taught them Jesus is a man, and is going to return as a man. He did not teach Jesus is God.

Which bible?

He also taught clearly, the only God is the Father, as Jesus taught in at lest three places, as God said, we are to know no other God, then the God Israel knew.

The bible the church fathers put together is tied to the Nicene Statement of faith.

As for creation those passages do not teach Jesus created heaven and earth. Jesus is the beginning of the new creation, and everything through him toward the new creation.

Refer to Christian Forums statement of faith, that is passed down to us by the founding church fathers who wrote the Nicene Creed. The same Nicene Creed recited in church liturgy.

Righttruth · Feb 5, 2016

Wgw said:
Well, at the very least I can respect that. I think you are stopping short of the goalpost, but to the very real extent you are earnestly in pursuit of the truth, I salute you.

Thanks. My goalpost is Jesus. The rest is His.

Righttruth · Feb 5, 2016

Simon Crosby said:
I can't believe anyone could read the Holy Bible and then reject the Trinity.

My opinion is just the opposite!

cgaviria · Feb 5, 2016

DrBubbaLove said:
So Jesus was "birthed" twice???
Who was Jesus first mother?

What need have he of a mother, did not angels, or even Adam, come forth into existence without the need of a mother?

Strong in Him · Feb 5, 2016

Righttruth said:
My opinion is just the opposite!

And yet, no one has really been able to provide an alternative.

If the Father isn't God, then Scripture is wrong because it says that he is.
If Jesus was not God while he was on earth, then it was only a man who died on the cross. How many men are, and have been, sinless, and how many have the ability and authority to take away our sins and grant everlasting life; eternal life, life in all its fullness? If Jesus is God now; that means are two Gods.
If the Spirit isn't God, then how does he have the ability to explain the things of God to us, to take from what belongs to Jesus and revealing it to us, John 16:14? Or to assure us that we are children of God - adopted by God himself, Romans 8:16?
How was the Spirit able to be with God in the beginning if he is not eternal? And why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit the one sin that cannot be forgiven, if the Spirit is not divine or an angel or some lesser spirit? If the the Spirit is God, then that means there are 3 Gods.

If the Father, Son and Spirit are all divine, and yet there is only one God; how can that be - unless the three are one?

cgaviria · Feb 5, 2016

Strong in Him said:
And yet, no one has really been able to provide an alternative.

If the Father isn't God, then Scripture is wrong because it says that he is.
If Jesus was not God while he was on earth, then it was only a man who died on the cross. How many men are, and have been, sinless, and how many have the ability and authority to take away our sins and grant everlasting life; eternal life, life in all its fullness? If Jesus is God now; that means are two Gods.
If the Spirit isn't God, then how does he have the ability to explain the things of God to us, to take from what belongs to Jesus and revealing it to us, John 16:14? Or to assure us that we are children of God - adopted by God himself, Romans 8:16?
How was the Spirit able to be with God in the beginning if he is not eternal? And why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit the one sin that cannot be forgiven, if the Spirit is not divine or an angel or some lesser spirit? If the the Spirit is God, then that means there are 3 Gods.

If the Father, Son and Spirit are all divine, and yet there is only one God; how can that be - unless the three are one?

They are not literally one, they are spiritually one. Even a man and a women, when they marry, they are not literally one, they are spiritually one. Even the elect who are also one with God, they are not literally one, they are spiritually one.

Strong in Him · Feb 5, 2016

cgaviria said:
They are not literally one, they are spiritually one.

So there are 3 Gods, united in Spirit?

cgaviria said:
Even a man and a women, when they marry, they are not literally one, they are spiritually one.

I thought you said it was wrong to use human examples in describing God because he is not a man?

The other observations apply; if Jesus wasn't God when he was on earth, then it was a man - a deluded man, what's more - who died on the cross. Such a person has no power to save me from sin, overcome the evil one and give me eternal life.
If the Spirit isn't God, he has no ability to share the things of God with us, and it cannot be blasphemy to sin against him.

cgaviria · Feb 5, 2016

Strong in Him said:
So there are 3 Gods, united in Spirit?

I thought you said it was wrong to use human examples in describing God because he is not a man?

The other observations apply; if Jesus wasn't God when he was on earth, then it was a man - a deluded man, what's more - who died on the cross. Such a person has no power to save me from sin, overcome the evil one and give me eternal life.
If the Spirit isn't God, he has no ability to share the things of God with us, and it cannot be blasphemy to sin against him.

There is only one God, the Father, as it is written,

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4 [ESV])

Now, God, in his authority, has granted Jesus Christ authority to be Lord and God over his own creation in representation of the Father. The same with holy spirit, yet holy spirit is in subjection to Jesus Christ.

Goatee · Feb 5, 2016

cgaviria said:
What need have he of a mother, did not angels, or even Adam, come forth into existence without the need of a mother?

So, why did he have a mother then? Why choose Mary as his mother?

Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

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