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Have you experienced the Holy Spirit....yes no or nun na my business? Simple question....most people are eager to speak of it.....Says the guy who is unwilling to be persecuted for the sake of Jesus Christ. You guys are really quite something...
I am blessed now. The Holy Spirit is a deposit which guarantees our future inheritance; I know I have eternal life and am a child of God.
We all have to stand before God. Have you considered that he might, one day, tell you that you were wrong?
And you choose to 'believe' in such 'stories'? Come now. And I was beginning to believe that you were much more 'practical' in your beliefs than that.
I've heard a 'ton' of stories about Bigfoot and Aliens, but I don't place much 'faith' in them. For they are most common, just that: stories that can't be verified except by those telling the stories.
Actually, the Bible states that 'all those' that will be judged according to 'life' or 'righteousness' will be the judge of angels. The indication is that 'all of God's children' are 'above' the angels. Nothing in the Bible offers that the 'angels' were created in the image of God. Yet we were.
And if we were 'created' in the 'image' of God, exactly what does that 'make us'? Demi Gods? Children of God? Sons of God? That part of us that is the 'image' of God, is that God Himself dwelling within the flesh of mankind? For certainly the 'image' isn't physical. It must be 'Spiritual'. So what are 'we' so far as the 'image' is concerned. Are we not 'mirrors' of sorts. Mirroring the 'image of God'?
So many seem to insist that God could only beget 'God'. Yet we were 'created' in His image. Could this have something to do with the statement, "Ye are Gods"? And if this is the truth, wouldn't it be that God is not 'three persons' in one God, but God is all that are a part of His will? That we too are 'persons' that are a 'part' of God? With God as Godhead among 'all' that is a 'part of God'?
What will be 'our place' in the 'new world'? Those that are judged according to 'life'. What will their place be? Will they all 'sit at the left hand of God'?
Or will we simply 'start over'. Like Adam and Eve? I think not. For if we are judged according to life, certainly there will be something that separates us from Adam and Eve.
God is 'the' God of Christ as well as Our God. God is the Father of Christ as well as Our Heavenly Father. This would be an impossibility is Christ is God.
And what if? What if 'we too are Gods'. Those that will be judged according to life. What if 'we too' are the Children of God and therefore 'individual parts of God Himself'? And the only difference between us and Christ is that He was 'firstborn'. That He was instrumental in our creation but in the 'same image' as God Himself. Not God, but created in the 'image' of God. A Son. Just like our 'sons' are images of ourselves. Capable of being 'like us' but individuals that are 'not us'.
Blessings,
MEC
In the Greek the word is morphe, where we get the word morphed from.
3444morphḗ – properly, form (outward expression) that embodies essential(inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner-essence.
The Nicene Creed states the Son is of one substance with the father, it essentially points to the inner charactistsic qualities of God himself. Adam could not be in complete harmony with the inner-essence of God, nor was Moses for that matter, because they were sinners and the essence of the Father is sinless deity, therefore the Christ fulfills that characteristic of sinless deity, that only the Father has. This is the form of God which is inwardly and outwardly in harmony with God's personal charactistsics, who is Spirit (John 4:24). So form is the one to one exact image of what makes the Father the Father, although the Son has a distinct persona and a distinct role to play within the one infinite God, who is in co-equal relationship with the Father as declared in Philippians 2:6, after all it is the claim made by Jesus himself to his disciples.
So morphe says nothing of being endowed with the very authority of God, rather it squarely points to the essential inner characteristics of what makes God God. Could Adam or Moses or any created being claim to be the inner essential characteristics of what makes God God? Absolutely not!
Notice it says another Comforter and not another Holy Spirit. We know today that from John chapter 14 that the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, but within the same context before the giving for he Holy Ghost, the Christ was that Comforter for the disciples, when he walked as the man Jesus of Nazereth.
We know before the other, that is another Comforter, the Holy Ghost was to be given on the day of Pentecost, the present Comforter, who is the Christ needed to leave before the Holy Ghost could come.
You are in error when you say...the Holy Spirit is another state of spirit
The first Comforter is the man Jesus of Nazareth. As Jesus would say....
The shepherd is the sheeps Comforter (John 14:18)
It's fine, don't worry.
I may give up with this thread soon anyway; the endless arguments are not edifying.
God bless.
Adam was the Son of God in a unique way. He had no earthly father. Jesus was the Son of God in a unique way. He had no earthly father.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Lord God, the One being, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty. (Rev 1:8)
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." (Rev 22:13)
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
The God of Israel confirmed in Abraham and David and the prophets, His promise that the "seed" of Eve would arrive as Savior of mankind. Genesis 3:15. The expectation was that a son will be born in Israel, Isaiah 9:6. A Prophet like Moses, will originate from among the people of Israel. Deuteronomy 18:15.
Hundreds of years after the fact, a completely different idea emerged, that a second member of a triune God (which btw, Israel knew nothing about) would descend from heaven and be transmuted into a human fetus.
There have been thousands of books and literature written in an attempt to explain and justify the doctrine of the Trinity. Scripture has been taken out of context, the language of the Holy Spirit has been altered to make it fit with the doctrine. After all of the explaining and justifying, some trinitarians say, well nobody can understand or explain the Trinity.
Jesus is the theme of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. God revealed his only begotten Son in Scripture for us. The whole point of the Bible story is that the Son of God has to be a biological descendant of Eve, Abraham and David. He must be truly a Jew by lineage. He must stem from the line of David. He must be an Israelite, and the "prophet like Moses."
When a brand new non-human personage from heaven is inserted into the storyline, the whole divine plan is derailed, confused and complicated. The promise of the Savior's continuous lineage from Abraham and David becomes impossible. The Savior is no longer essentially human. Instead of talking about him, as the promised Messiah, somebody altered the scheme to speak about his humanity in abstract terms.
He has been replaced by a strange being that arrived from someplace else.
and what/who is the other comforter according to your opinion?!, do you see there to be another Messiah in the gospels(including the book "Acts") who came shortly after Jesus' ascension?!, Jesus had been seen, while the Holy Spirit had not so, because the Holy Spirit as a third aspect of God is always (re)presented as something impersonal such as "dove"(Mat 3:16), "sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind"(Acts 2:2), "cloven tongues like as of fire"(Acts 2:3), etc., which means It is not a person in and of itself
Blessings
Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has set you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He (Holy Ghost) purchased with His own blood. (Acts 20:28)
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:18-21)
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:9)
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter to help you and be with you forever--
Adam was the Son of God in a unique way. He had no earthly father. Jesus was the Son of God in a unique way. He had no earthly father. The God of Israel confirmed in Abraham and David and the prophets, His promise that the "seed" of Eve would arrive as Savior of mankind. Genesis 3:15. The expectation was that a son will be born in Israel, Isaiah 9:6. A Prophet like Moses, will originate from among the people of Israel. Deuteronomy 18:15.
Hundreds of years after the fact, a completely different idea emerged, that a second member of a triune God (which btw, Israel knew nothing about) would descend from heaven and be transmuted into a human fetus.
There have been thousands of books and literature written in an attempt to explain and justify the doctrine of the Trinity. Scripture has been taken out of context, the language of the Holy Spirit has been altered to make it fit with the doctrine.
After all of the explaining and justifying, some trinitarians say, well nobody can understand or explain the Trinity.
Jesus is the theme of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. God revealed his only begotten Son in Scripture for us. The whole point of the Bible story is that the Son of God has to be a biological descendant of Eve, Abraham and David. He must be truly a Jew by lineage. He must stem from the line of David. He must be an Israelite, and the "prophet like Moses."
When a brand new non-human personage from heaven is inserted into the storyline, the whole divine plan is derailed, confused and complicated.
The promise of the Savior's continuous lineage from Abraham and David becomes impossible. The Savior is no longer essentially human.
Instead of talking about him, as the promised Messiah, somebody altered the scheme to speak about his humanity in abstract terms.
He has been replaced by a strange being that arrived from someplace else.
You have no concept of context and how it affects word meanings.
That's why you are getting the Big Ignore.
I wouldn't call it a hierarchy, but there is definitely a division of labor and Jesus seemed to always place Himself under God the father's direction. So I would say they were equally divine and eternal.That is why Jesus say to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Do you think that there is some sort of hierarchy amongst the three persona's of God?
All are coequal and coeternal and that is what Jesus would say to baptise in all three.
Jesus understood the concept
John 10
33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?
35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),…
36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '?…
And Psalm 82
"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
Yes and if there were no other gods, then the GOD would not have said:
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
It just means that no one should be held higher and greater than the LORD.
The 1st Comforter was Jesus, when he was on earth. That is why he would say.......
Because the Pharisees blasphemed the miraculous works of Christ, by saying that they were from Satan, that is why Jesus would say that they had committed the unforgivable sin by blaspheming against the works of the Spirit.
Before Pentecost Jesus would do the following....
The Holy Ghost, that is the Spirit of God, was the person of the Christ, who was conceived of the Holy Ghost and who would have this internal essence, without measure.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Colossians 2:9)
And in the acts of the apostles, it is written......
Finally within the context of the giving of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost, Jesus would say.....
So the Spirit of Christ would manifest to the believers after he is gone on the day of Pentecost, through another Comforter, the Holy Ghost.
So Jesus was the 1st Comforter that prevented the 2nd Comforter from coming on the day of Pentecost, unless he left first, so that the Father would send him.
That is why Jesus say to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Do you think that there is some sort of hierarchy amongst the three persona's of God?
All are coequal and coeternal and that is what Jesus would say to baptise in all three.
Lulav is stupified to see that 4 more pages have been added to this thread since she posted this and not ONE rebuttal.Why do suppose that is?
you did not answer the question, is the Holy Spirit/Ghost a person in and by itself or not?!
Blessings
Certainly there is evidence present in people who have received the Holy Spirit:Of course it is. Any person that receives holy spirit will evidence it with a sign. Even Jesus Christ evidenced it with a dove descending upon him. Even Saul evidenced it with prophesying and becoming another man. There is always a sign when the holy spirit enters a body, which is usually prophesying or speaking in a new language. And receiving holy spirit also imparts sanctification and inner perfection. If you are still sinning, you have not been born of God.
Galatians 5 said:But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Acts 8 said:Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are inthe gall[c] of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” 24 And Simon answered, “Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.”
There are only 3 places in the Bible where we are specifically told that the receiving of the Holy Spirit resulted in speaking in tongues. They are:Matthew 16 said:And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered them,[a] “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ 3 And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.
Lulav is stupified to see that 4 more pages have been added to this thread since she posted this and not ONE rebuttal.Why do suppose that is?
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:34-36)
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. (Psalms 82:1-2)
7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.(Psalms 82:7)
33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:33)
Certainly there is evidence present in people who have received the Holy Spirit:
Additionally, there is a record of the Holy Spirit being given in which we do not see that it is accompanied by signs:
And finally, miraculous signs are reserved for times and happenings of God's choosing:
There are only 3 places in the Bible where we are specifically told that the receiving of the Holy Spirit resulted in speaking in tongues. They are:
1. Pentecost - the first experience with the Holy Spirit
2. Cornelius and his household - a sure sign from God that He had granted salvation to the gentiles
3. John's disciples - a sure sign from God that the baptism of John was not sufficient for salvation, and in a city where (we see in following verses) there was much opposition to the gospel
Though there are records of people coming to faith throughout the book of Acts, only in these three places do we see tongues expressly shown as a sign of this. These were all extremely important occasions for the church, and each unique in its own way.
The true measure of whether someone has the Holy Spirit is whether or not they bear fruit (as Jesus Himself said, "by their fruits you shall know them"). Not whether they speak in tongues or have a "spiritual story" to go along with it.
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