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Why the Protestant view of the Cross is wrong.

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Thekla

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Yes, and indeed this is an ontological change/redemption by grace/participation.

So we are to willingly take up our cross, just as Christ did.

In fact, how else would Christ enter Hades, and harrow it if He were not in appearance a mere man ?
 
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Clare73

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I am not dissing the LXX.
 
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T

Thekla

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The meaning of those who wrote what I quote is: new birth, resurrection from the dead, redemption from eternal death, salvation from wrath (Ro 5:9), not "corrected/set aright."

Are not all these summarized in "set aright" ?

At least this is what I mean.



Yes, but remember what the Biblical terminology is pointing to (as there is not iirc legal tender in Heavens).

Paul uses terminology that describes the action:

He without death 'paid the wages of sin', which is death, that me might be restored ...
 
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Clare73

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Are not all these summarized in "set aright" ?

At least this is what I mean.
I appreciate that is what you mean, but those are not Biblical words and so one doesn't really know what you mean.

Yes, but remember what the Biblical terminology is pointing to (as there is not iirc legal tender in Heavens).
What is "iirc"?

The language of God's word in the NT is Greek. That will be its legal tender in heaven.
And the Greek meaning is what the Biblical terminology will be pointing to in heaven.

Paul uses terminology that describes the action:

He without death 'paid the wages of sin', which is death, that me might be restored ...
Okay, you're doing it again. . .confounding Scripture.

Scripture does not say that "Christ paid the wages of sin" (eternal death).

Christ ransomed me from the wages of sin (eternal death), by satisfying (propitiating) the justice of God on my sin.
 
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Crandaddy

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I'm not called to participate in Christ's dying for sin.

I receive the benefits of his dying for sin through faith, not participation in his death.?

Or, are you using "participate" to mean the same as "receive"?

By acting on faith, your life becomes connected to His, so that His Life becomes your own. So in a way, you do participate in His death by your faith--it's your dying to sin by receiving His death for sin, along with the resurrection and life that come with it. You must understand that I don't view faith as simply a mental activity, but as a "walk," if you will. It's your taking up your cross and following Him.
 
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MoreCoffee

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The above is somewhat true, scripture does speak of the fragrance of Christ and a smell of death:
To God we are the fragrance of Christ, both among those who are being saved and among those who are on the way to destruction; for these last, the smell of death leading to death, but for the first, the smell of life leading to life. Who is equal to such a task? (2 Corinthians 2:15-16)
Why do you bring up this notion of odiousness to the unbelieving? The Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA) theory is not the gospel; PSA is a doctrine that some teach and that many reject.
Imagine the most loathsome account of the meaning of the cross. The most detestable, vile, repugnant, and defiling explanation to the carnal man. That meaning is the true, Biblical, and holy meaning of Christ's work on earth.

I hope you are not seriously contending that the most disgusting imaginations of unbelief are true. That simply because some loathsome idea about the gospel is conceived by those who reject the gospel that this loathsome idea must therefore be the truth. That would be absurd.

You might want to believe that God's wrath was poured out on Jesus Christ while he was suffering on the cross and when he died. But that belief implies that God the Father poured his wrath out on God the Son and that means that God was wrathful towards God. I wonder if you believe that God poured out his wrath on God? And that God hid his countenance from God? And since Christ became a curse for us do you believe that God cursed God?

It is interesting that, after your words in the previous two paragraphs, it has occurred to you that what you wrote could be construed as calling me (and by implication all who do not teach and believe PSA) non-christian.

You are, as your words so clearly say, calling all who do not share your views on PSA 'carnal', aren't you?
The above paragraph is a little muddled, you say that Christians "will be unable to believe and be saved", which appears to be an oxymoron.
 
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Clare73

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And on that list of "some" is Paul the apostle.

It is the clear teaching of Ro 3:25-26 (as shown by examination of the text, [post=63167342]here[/post]).

You might want to believe that God's wrath was poured out on Jesus Christ while he was suffering on the cross and when he died.

And the word of God in Isa 53:5 could be any clearer that Christ was punished in our place:

"the punishment that brought us peace was upon him."

Why do you wrestle the word of God (2Tim 3:16)?
 
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