Why the Protestant view of the Cross is wrong.

Fireinfolding · May 30, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
That is a good thing. The Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory says it.

I am glad you do not say it too.

I don't know what that means (go with Clare on that) Because I don't study all the theories out there.

I only quoted scripture, and you posted me a youtube video which you lend credibility to. Yet you will say what authority so I have to show what I see found in Christ in scriptures (he fulfills)? Yet its ok (for you) to turn to Mel Gibson for authority? I never got that.

Fireinfolding · May 30, 2013

Eliwho said:
Actually watched his The Passion movie this week.

I watched it sometime back myself too

Rev Randy · May 30, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
I don't know what that means (go with Clare on that) Because I don't study all the theories out there.

I only quoted scripture, and you posted me a youtube video which you lend credibility to. Yet you will say what authority so I have to show what I see found in Christ in scriptures (he fulfills)? Yet its ok (for you) to turn to Mel Gibson for authority? I never got that.

Imagine that. A Catholic going to an Orthodox (Mel) for authority. Things are looking up.

Fireinfolding · May 30, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Imagine that. A Catholic going to an Orthodox (Mel) for authority. Things are looking up.

They would have Mel Gibson represent the Orthodox?

Wouldn't surprise me

Eliwho · May 30, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
Hey bro

Glad you don't feel like you have the authoriity to interpret Gods word by a Mel Gibson movie

Yeah, I know I'm not to shy about utilizing this stuff......

Luke 10:19 KJVA

Behold , I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Rev Randy · May 30, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
They would have Mel Gibson represent the Orthodox?

Wouldn't surprise me

He is an Orthodox but there are times we don't like to admit it.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
I don't know what that means (go with Clare on that) Because I don't study all the theories out there.

I only quoted scripture, and you posted me a youtube video which you lend credibility to. Yet you will say what authority so I have to show what I see found in Christ in scriptures (he fulfills)? Yet its ok (for you) to turn to Mel Gibson for authority? I never got that.

Oh no, you have that quite the wrong way around.

The video clip was posted because it is another way of seeing the passion of Jesus Christ on the cross. Not because it is a competing theory of the atonement.

You put forward darkness as a sign of God's wrath towards Jesus when Jesus was dying on the cross.

The clip puts forward the darkness as a sign of God's deep sorrow about the suffering of Jesus on the cross, symbolised by a single tear falling to the earth.

I reckon God loved Jesus all the time, never hated him, never poured out his wrath upon Jesus - especially not while Jesus was dying on the cross.

The gospels do not make it seem like God was angry with Jesus.

Metal Minister · May 31, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, you have conceded that the Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory is not explicitly taught in scripture.

That sums up the matter between us.

QED.

As for the new matters you have raised.

Start a new thread for them and see how it goes.

Smh, no, you missed it completely. I showed you both things are taught, and not mutually exclusive. You chose to ignore it, and instead tried to pull the "find the exact words". Therefore I turned that back to you to show you the logical fallacy you'd walked into. So, you've yet to refute my point and continue with non-rebuttals. If anything, you've conceded you have nothing to refute my points. If you do, then by all means, reveal it, otherwise I'll have to believe you cannot and therefore are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Fireinfolding · May 31, 2013

Rev Randy said:
He is an Orthodox but there are times we don't like to admit it.

Thus says Mel Gibson

Metal Minister · May 31, 2013

Rev Randy said:
He is an Orthodox but there are times we don't like to admit it.

Usually all the time right?

MoreCoffee · May 31, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Smh, no, you missed it completely. I showed you both things are taught, and not mutually exclusive. You chose to ignore it, and instead tried to pull the "find the exact words". Therefore I turned that back to you to show you the logical fallacy you'd walked into. So, you've yet to refute my point and continue with non-rebuttals. If anything, you've conceded you have nothing to refute my points. If you do, then by all means, reveal it, otherwise I'll have to believe you cannot and therefore are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Well, I do not have to refute your claim for it to be unproven.

My point is not that one CANNOT interpret the bible the way you do but rather that one need not do so because other alternatives exist that, in my opinion, are better.

Fireinfolding · May 31, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
Oh no, you have that quite the wrong way around.

The video clip was posted because it is another way of seeing the passion of Jesus Christ on the cross. Not because it is a competing theory of the atonement.

You put forward darkness as a sign of God's wrath towards Jesus when Jesus was dying on the cross.

The clip puts forward the darkness as a sign of God's deep sorrow about the suffering of Jesus on the cross, symbolised by a single tear falling to the earth.

I reckon God loved Jesus all the time, never hated him, never poured out his wrath upon Jesus - especially not while Jesus was dying on the cross.

The gospels do not make it seem like God was angry with Jesus.

I never said what you seem to hear (and convey back to me) when I post scripture. It comes back to me asorta tangled up when you touch it with your own reasonings.

Rev Randy · May 31, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
Thus says Mel Gibson

It was a good movie.
To be fair to Mel, we're all an embarrassment when we sin. That pic looks like he lost a battle with the devil. It also tells me, not to mess with Texas law officers.

MoreCoffee · May 31, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
I never said what you seem to hear (and convey back to me) when I post scripture. It comes back to me asorta tangled up when you touch it with your own reasonings.

Uh huh ....

Well, thanks for your input

MoreCoffee · May 31, 2013

Rev Randy said:
He is an Orthodox but there are times we don't like to admit it.

The picture is obviously a fake because:

He is not 6'4" tall.
The licence plate is from 1932.
The hand holding it is not normal.

And it looks doctored

Rev Randy · May 31, 2013

Whoops, I learned he left and started his own.

Fireinfolding · May 31, 2013

Rev Randy said:
It was a good movie.
To be fair to Mel, we're all an embarrassment when we sin. That pic looks like he lost a battle with the devil. It also tells me, not to mess with Texas law officers.

Goes to show an orthodox just looks the way a lot of other guys do in a line up when resisting arrest.

He can still make a decent movie like many other hollywood directors.

That's their job to pull the audience in and grip them, so he did well.

Rev Randy · May 31, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
The picture is obviously a fake because:

He is not 6'4" tall.

The licence plate is from 1932.

The hand holding it is not normal.

And it looks doctored

It's a joke. He's also got something like a nickle poking out of his head and a bud can around his neck.

Metal Minister · May 31, 2013

MoreCoffee said:
Well, I do not have to refute your claim for it to be unproven.

My point is not that one CANNOT interpret the bible the way you do but rather that one need not do so because other alternatives exist that, in my opinion, are better.

Yet you've not offered them, or any reason why they would be better.

Eliwho · May 31, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
Goes to show an orthodox just looks the way a lot of other guys do in a line up when resisting arrest.

He can still make a decent movie like many other hollywood directors.

That's their job to pull the audience in and grip them, so he did well.

yeah, i can understand resisting arrest.
it's our constitutional right to protect ourselves.
Never understood adding it as another charge on top of what one is being arrested for.

Why the Protestant view of the Cross is wrong.

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