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Heaven and earth are still here. All has not been fulfilled. Jesus has not returned to establish the new heaven and earth. And the Kingdom has not been placed back into the Father's hands.What is your point, exactly? I guess these possible points:
a) You believe that the heaven and earth passing Jesus mentioned is something literal and still in the future
b) You believe that Jesus instructions to Jews before his death and resurrection apply still today (I noticed you had quite a hard time to find any instruction regarding keeping the Sabbath, though, you found only the opposite)
c) You believe that the Law given to Jews was given to the whole world
Is it so? If its so, you may try to prove it.
The Sabbath as to which day has been an issue for some time, but In the Christian community the Decalogue was never in question until the beginning of the last century. Now look, it is a make as you will.Or it is and ignored it so they grieved the Spirit away in that respect.
Matthew 5: Not to destroy.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.Notes:Matthew 12: Sabbath observance vs tradition.
- What's the opposite of destroy? Antonyms of destroy: build, reconstruct, preserve, restore, raise
- Not one jot or tittle pretty much negates any change in the law whatsoever.
- Keep the commandments and teach others to keep them.
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.Notes:Matthew 15: Commandment observance vs tradition.
- Jesus makes it a point to call Himself Lord of the Sabbath day.
- If Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, then He has utmost authority concerning the Sabbath.
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?Notes:Matthew 19: Commandment keeping and love combined.
- Transgression of the commandment of God = commandments are still binding.
- This is an important lesson for those who would put tradition over the word of God.
- Sunday is not commanded anywhere in scripture, thus it is a tradition of men.
- Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?Notes:Matthew 22: All the law and the prophets hang on love.
- Jesus said keep the commandments, an all encompassing statement. He is referring to the Ten Commandments, as we see in the next verse when He quotes the Ten Commandments.
- Jesus only quoting four of the Ten does not negate the other six, especially considering the fact that Jesus observed the Sabbath in life and death, and taught commandment observance.
- Jesus is quoting the Old Testament. Exodus 20 (Ten Commandments), Leviticus 19:18 (love your neighbor). These were not new concepts.
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.Notes:Revelation 22: Commandment keeping upheld.
- All the law and the prophets hang on love.
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.-15 (Amplified) Outside are the dogs [the godless, the impure, those of low moral character] and the sorcerers [with their intoxicating drugs, and magic arts], and the immoral persons [the perverted, the molesters, and the adulterers], and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying (deception, cheating).Notes:
- Do his commandments.
- Conditional to the tree of life and entering the city.
- Outside the city are sinners who break the Ten Commandments (murder, idolatry, bearing false witness) and practice abominations to God.
- Nowhere do we see Jesus negating any commandment of the Ten. Instead, we see the law upheld.
Conclusion
Keep the commandments of God, as Jesus taught throughout His ministry and from heaven. The Ten Commandments, of which includes the Sabbath commandment—the one that says remember and to keep holy.
You guys are both bright, so I'm trying to figure out how this works in your minds.Heaven and earth are still here. All has not been fulfilled. Jesus has not returned to establish the new heaven and earth. And the Kingdom has not been placed back into the Father's hands.
Context does not allow for that. And there is a difference between laws, statutes and judgments.You guys are both bright, so I'm trying to figure out how this works in your minds.
The line of reasoning presented would apply to the entire law. Yet I think we all agree that some things have passed from the law, such as animal sacrifices.
Animal sacrifices have passed from the law, yet the physical heaven and Earth are still here.
How does that work in your minds?
They run from place to place, but in the end, they will finish with something like "Only the 10 commandments are the Law, the rest is something else".You guys are both bright, so I'm trying to figure out how this works in your minds.
The line of reasoning presented would apply to the entire law. Yet I think we all agree that some things have passed from the law, such as animal sacrifices.
Animal sacrifices have passed from the law, yet the physical heaven and Earth are still here.
How does that work in your minds?
Do you mean that Jesus is saying that he didn't come to destroy some of the laws and some of the prophets? And that until heaven and Earth pass away, some of the jots and tittles will not pass away?Context does not allow for that. And there is a difference between laws, statutes and judgments.
No, I mean nothing. The context of the passage does not support what you are purporting.Do you mean that Jesus is saying that he didn't come to destroy some of the laws and some of the prophets? And that until heaven and Earth pass away, some of the jots and tittles will not pass away?
Also from the sermon on the MountNo, I mean nothing. The context of the passage does not support what you are purporting.
The context of the passage in it's entirety.Also from the sermon on the Mount
Matthew 7:12
Therefore, whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
If you take that to refer only to laws, and not statutes, judgments, ordinances, or commandments, then
thanks
That answers my question of how it works in your mind.
Peace be with you, my friend!
I will repeat an argument I have made many, many time and which I believe has never been challenged (often this argument is all too conveniently ignored by those who believe the Law is still in force):Heaven and earth are still here. All has not been fulfilled. Jesus has not returned to establish the new heaven and earth. And the Kingdom has not been placed back into the Father's hands.
it was not said in the post you responded to the law was still in force as you imply. And it is not Matt 5:17,18 that needs faithfully read it is the sermon in it's entirity.I will repeat an argument I have made many, many time and which I believe has never been challenged (often this argument is all too conveniently ignored by those who believe the Law is still in force):
There is a way to faithfully read Matt 5:17-18 and still claim that Law of Moses was retired 2000 years ago. In Hebrew culture, “end of the world” language was commonly used metaphorically to invest commonplace events with theological significance.
I believe so, yes. Consider the tent of meeting from the book of Genesis (or was it Exodus). Anyway, that tent was certainly "sanctified" by God and yet God later does away with it.So can something set apart holy by God end up being unsanctified not lasting?
Your post to which I was responding was itself a response to another poster who had written this:it was not said in the post you responded to the law was still in force as you imply.
Well, please go ahead and make your case, or point me to posts where you have done so.And it is not Matt 5:17,18 that needs faithfully read it is the sermon in it's entirity.
Right, if you take the context of the passage in its entirety to refer only to laws, and not statutes, judgments, ordinances, or commandments, then thanks,The context of the passage in it's entirety.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath ..... (He's not the Lord of nothing) .... Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath and we are called to follow in His steps....Because that's reserved for the Sabbath.
Comments and criticisms are welcomed.
In a since it has, no particular day is needed, for the Sabbath is Today.I believe so, yes. Consider the tent of meeting from the book of Genesis (or was it Exodus). Anyway, that tent was certainly "sanctified" by God and yet God later does away with it.
Can you please answer the question that Leaf posed to you. Here it is again:No, I mean nothing. The context of the passage does not support what you are purporting.
I disagree - I believe Jesus intentionally broke the Sabbath as a way of signalling that the Law of Moses was coming to an end. Consider this from MatthewJesus is Lord of the Sabbath ..... (He's not the Lord of nothing) .... Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath and we are called to follow in His steps.
Can you please point out where it says the Sabbath is “today” and contradicts God where God said the Sabbath is the seventh day Exodus 20:10 Hebrews does not say the Sabbath is today and the author of Hebrews knows we are not supposed to add or subtract from the commandments Deut 4:2. The law of God is perfect Psalms 19:7 so no changes needed or allowed. Proverbs 30:5-6In a since it has, no particular day is needed, for the Sabbath is Today.
Romans 4
6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience, 7God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.
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