Why the Constant Attack?

[Biblewriter]

Just keep in mind what one of the greatest minds said, who was also a prolific commentator on scripture and eschatology. I am privileged to be in like company:

"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies of the Bible and insist on a literal interpretation in the midst of much clamor and opposition"
- Sir Isaac Newton

Oh... and as a side note, Newton was in the camp well over one century before Darby was. Oh boy, that sure shoots those ideas out the water.

Newton was only one of many that taught these doctrines long before Darby, and even before his falsely alleged source, Lacunza through Irving.

 

[Copperhead]

"Replacement Theology" replaces the One Seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

Jer 31:31　 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:　
Jer 31:32　 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:　
Jer 31:33　 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.　
Jer 31:34　 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.　


Heb 8:6　 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.　
Heb 8:8　 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:　
Heb 8:9　 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.　
Heb 8:10　 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:　
Heb 8:11　 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.　
Heb 8:12　 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.　
Heb 8:13　 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.　


Mat 26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.　


Heb 12:22　 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.　



Mat 1:1　 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.　



Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.　



Rom 9:8　 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.　


Mat 21:42　 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?　
Mat 21:43　 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
　

Pe 2:4　 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,　
1Pe 2:5　 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.　
1Pe 2:6　 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHIEF CORNERSTONE, ELECT, PRECIOUS, AND HE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM WILL BY NO MEANS BE PUT TO SHAME."　
1Pe 2:7　 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE,"　
1Pe 2:8　 and "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.　
1Pe 2:9　 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;　
1Pe 2:10　 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.　

.

Confused... are you defending the position or just expounding on how it supports its assertion?

 

[Hal A Peno]

v

 

[Biblewriter]

I agree with you BW. I'm no dispensationalist, but I think BABerean2 has this all wrong. He is misrepresenting you as well as Thomas Ice. People are notorius on the forum to inundate people with scripture to support what they believe.

When the scriptures quoted actually say what they claim they say, such quoting is appropriate. But people often quote scriptures that they imagine have a meaning different from what they actually say. And then claim that this is what the scriptures say.

 

[Hal A Peno]

g

 

[Biblewriter]

Error as to the meaning of scripture, even serious error, is not damnable. But willfully changing its message about anything is.

 

[Copperhead]

One problem with any revisionist view of scripture is that major prophecy regarding Israel has come to pass right before our eyes and revisionists cannot abide that. It counters their theology. The modern state of Israel in 1948. I know, I know, some will argue about Ashkenazi this or Ashkenazi that and that modern Israel isn't really Jewish or some other nonsense. But let history and scripture speak for itself.

Ezekiel 4:4-6 outlays 430 years of punishment on Israel. 70 years ticked off in the Babylonian captivity. But the majority of Jews did not return with Ezra or Nehemiah. They remained in opposition to the Lord. 430 - 70 = 360 years. Leviticus 26 says that if Israel remained in rebellion, their punishment would be multiplied 7 times. 360 x 7 is 2520 years. 2520 x 360 (days in a religious / prophetic calendar year) = 907200 days. 907200 divided by 365.25 (days in a solar year) is 2483.78 years. The decree to restore the temple was issued by Cyrus in the fall of 537BC. That is roughly -536.4 for math purposes. -536.4 + 2483.78 + 1 year (there is no year zero. The calendar goes from 1 BC to 1AD) = 1948.4 or roughly May of 1948 when modern Israel became a nation again.

Some of you folks have Ashkenazi on the brain. You really have got to get a life.

The majority of Jews in modern Israel's founding in 1948 were Sabras, those Jews who had been born there and had historic, genealogical ties to the land for centuries. There has always been a Jewish presence in the land. Even after the 70AD and 135AD events, there has always been a substantial Jewish community in the land. Sometimes even flourishing. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias. Later, substantial Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and Caesarea. During the Crusades, some crusaders had contests to see how many Jewish babies they could get on a sword. Something like 20,000 were burned alive in the Great Synagogue in Jerusalem by the crusaders, all while the crusaders marched around the burning building singing praises to Christ. What a wonderful history the established Church has regarding Jews. Is it any wonder many of them don't trust Christians and are loathe to even check out the Gospel. But it does establish one thing... there were substantial numbers of Jews in the land.

There are also Sephardi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Beta Israel, Cochin Jews, Bene Israel, Karaite Jews, and many other groups.

And all the tribes were commingled back in 2 Chronicles 11 under Rehoboam. Jeroboam had screwed things up pretty bad up north with idol worship and other nonsense, and had cut off the Levitical priests from performing their duties. The Levites, and those that remained faithful to God from all the other tribes, migrated south and joined with the southern kingdom, and were even among those taken into captivity in Babylon.

When the remnant returned from the Babylonian captivity, Ezra called them Jews 8 times and all Israel 40 times. In the second wave, Nehemiah called them Jews 11 times and all Israel 22 times.

Sure, those that didn't return were assimilated into the culture and even migrated out to Europe and other places. Doesn't matter. There were always faithful from all the tribes living in the land. Even today in Israel, Ashkenazi Jews are only a fraction of the Jewish population. Sabras still comprise almost half of Jews in modern Israel.

But because only a remnant returned from Babylon, the majority were still disobedient by wanting to stay in Babylon. They had built homes, careers, etc and didn't want to give that up to move back to a destroyed Israel and rebuild it. Kinda like folks today don't want to give up their cushy lifestyle to do what is right in God's eyes. So Leviticus 26 kicked in and the remaining years of punishment were multiplied 7 times.

Even with the return from Babylon, there never was again a independent nation of Israel because of that extended punishment. They remained still under control of Cyrus, then Darius, then the Greeks, then the Romans, the Ottoman empire, The British, et al. Only when the years were fulfilled in 1948 did Israel once again become an independent nation.

Deny it. Try to refute it, whatever. Just be certain you are not impugning God's character that He doesn't keep His promises. Dangerous ground buddy. The one thing that distinguishes the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob from all others is that He is a God who delights in making and keeping His promises. If He can't be trusted regarding His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then our salvation is in just as much jeopardy. Frightening thought right there. But I know in Whom I have placed my trust.

 

[Jack Terrence]

deleted

 

[Copperhead]

Pretty strong words for a position on eschatology. I didn't realize that eschatology held the same level of justification as in regards to who Yeshua truly is or isn't, which is what primarily separates JW and LDS from traditional Christianity.

That's ok. I see your comments more as a vindication of eschatological positions than an indictment. One can always tell when one is on the right track when they come under verbal attack as opposed to constructive rebuttal.

 

[JWO]

I have noticed that the Dispensationalism sub-forum is

Because Dispensationalism is actually a denomination?

 

[JWO]

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Jesus uses the words of the Law to prove that Satan is Apostate. So, Barnabus was wrong.

 

[JWO]

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Replacing the circumcision of the heart, with the circumcision of the Flesh.)

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. … 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

John 15:14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you.

Genesis 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; 18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

How many will pass such a test?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Biblewriter, post: 69449910, member: 111190"]That is why we conclude that any claim that Israel will not indeed be blessed on this earth is an attack on the very foundations of the Christian faith.[/QUOTE
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Hmmmm...... was just passing thru, perusing the thread, and found this.

Who says Israel wont be (and isn't already) greatly blessed by YHWH ?

It is the people, the nation, that He Himself Chose for Himself, and SAYS SO, with many Scriptures in TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and the NEW TESTAMENT.

Perhaps He has protected[shielded] me from anyone who seeks to harm His People ? that are saying Israel isn't and won't be blessed by Him.
I know He has kept me all my life safe from the groups and teachings that are violent against Him and that are violent toward His children and other people ; those violent pernicious ones who are seeking to keep others from finding His Kingdom.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So, Barnabus was wrong.

In what, where? What Barnabus ?

 

[JWO]

In what, where? What Barnabus ?

Tertullian says Barnabus wrote Hebrews.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Tertullian says Barnabus wrote Hebrews.

So ? I don't know anyone who believes that. (fwiw)...
From the source, without knowing anything else, I wouldn't even bother to check it.

 

[JWO]

So ? I don't know anyone who believes that. (fwiw)...
From the source, without knowing anything else, I wouldn't even bother to check it.

Jesus uses the words of the Law to prove that Satan is Apostate.
So, the Letter to Hebrews is wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Let me guess... Tertullian's Against Marcion?

Why guess ?

 

[JWO]

Jesus uses the words of the Law to prove that Satan is Apostate.
So, either the Letter to Hebrews is wrong... or you think Jesus was wrong to use the words of the Law. Both ways won't work.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus uses the words of the Law to prove that Satan is Apostate.
So, either the Letter to Hebrews is wrong... or you think Jesus was wrong to use the words of the Law. Both ways won't work.

You are not making sense here.
What does this have to do with your previous 2 or 3 posts ?

Hebrews is YHWH'S Breathed Word , confimed and understood as He Pleases. (not possible with men opposed to Him, and not even understood by His own disciples until He grants it).

Yeshua HaMashiach likewise was never wrong. It is almost anathema to even print those words or think so.

What cult says those things anyway ?
(that EITHER SCRIPTURE, or JESUS is wrong, as you posted)