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Why the Childfree Are Hostile

akmom

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To be fair, you can't coo and oo and ah over children. That would be insulting. Children don't want to be acknowledged that way. Babies do. They enjoy being looked at, talked to and held. It's developmentally appropriate. That doesn't mean people don't fawn over older children too. They just express it differently. It's less noticeable. It takes more time. You have to actually get to know them. (Whereas babies really have no personality; their appearance is literally the only thing going for them.) There's a lot of research suggesting that children cease to benefit from praise after about age 5, so that's in line with what the author is probably observing.

As for celebrities, I think pregnancy and babyhood is a brief window in which the press are actually able to get pictures. After that, privacy becomes an issue for the child(ren).

I personally don't see hostility from the child-free. My complaint is more about the unrealistic expectations. I'll draw an example from the article, about breastfeeding without a cover. Can you imagine eating your meal under a blanket? Have you ever tried to breathe under a blanket? It's so hot and uncomfortable. I can't imagine forcing a baby to do that. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, that he meant a veil. Even then (in my experience at least), babies don't like it and they constantly try to pull it out of the way. Why should feeding become a needless struggle? Those who are annoyed can more easily look away than mothers can completely hide their activity. And then to compare breastfeeding to the sexualization of women in magazines? As if it is even relevant...

What I've encountered is annoyance at bringing little kids into the "wrong gender" bathroom. Yes, my four-year-old is potty-trained, but the sink is about 6" above his head, and the paper towels another two feet, so yes I still have to help him. And yes, I have to bring the carseat into the bathroom stall, even if it's crowded; I can't just lay an infant on the dirty floor, or wash my hands while holding him. No, I can't run home real quick and breastfeed, since a newborn has to feed every two hours, and it's at least a 30 minute commute. Sorry, my infant is crying at the DMV, bank, doctor's waiting room, or checkout line, but I have to do these things too. No, there's no magic trick to make him stop; it's not that I'm "being lazy" and not dealing with it. It's just that I need to get my groceries/license renewal/prescription just like you, and babies cry all the time, so there's no perfect way to time it. No, I can't join you at a movie with 30 minutes notice. I feel like some people just don't understand what's involved in taking care of kids, and get annoyed by things that parents don't really have options about.

I should note that I've never encountered this hostility personally. But I hear some child-free adults complain about these kinds of things (looking for validation from me, as a parent), and of course online, where everyone loses their filter. I don't see children in bars, babies getting changed on dining tables (that warrants a call to the health department), or hear parents admitting they shouldn't have had kids. I mean ever. Maybe Alaskans are just more civil??
 
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contango

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The bit that annoys me the most is when parents march boldly into a restaurant in the evening, carrying or dragging a screaming child who then ruins the tranquility for everyone else there. So those who don't have children, and those who go out less often so they can afford a childminder, have their evening ruined by one antisocial couple who decide that everyone else should tolerate their bawling brat.

It wasn't very long ago that pubs in the UK were places people didn't take children. If you wanted adult company free from kids, you could go to the pub. Increasingly these days there's nowhere you can go unless you're willing to chance listening to children screaming. Two of my local pubs have specific policies relating to children, that basically say if your child makes a lot of noise you will be asked to leave, and they secured my business with those policies.
 
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Audiomechanic

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To be fair, you can't coo and oo and ah over children. That would be insulting. Children don't want to be acknowledged that way. Babies do. They enjoy being looked at, talked to and held. It's developmentally appropriate. That doesn't mean people don't fawn over older children too. They just express it differently. It's less noticeable. It takes more time. You have to actually get to know them. (Whereas babies really have no personality; their appearance is literally the only thing going for them.) There's a lot of research suggesting that children cease to benefit from praise after about age 5, so that's in line with what the author is probably observing.

I was more referring to them talking about children rather than to them. I wasn't very clear there.

So many women's (and some men...but most men tend to be interested in the sports-playing ages) eyes just light up and get all glittery at the sound of the word "baby." Makes me a little ill really.

As for celebrities, I think pregnancy and babyhood is a brief window in which the press are actually able to get pictures. After that, privacy becomes an issue for the child(ren).

Fair enough. But it seems to me as baby-crazy.

I personally don't see hostility from the child-free. My complaint is more about the unrealistic expectations. I'll draw an example from the article, about breastfeeding without a cover. Can you imagine eating your meal under a blanket? Have you ever tried to breathe under a blanket? It's so hot and uncomfortable. I can't imagine forcing a baby to do that. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, that he meant a veil. Even then (in my experience at least), babies don't like it and they constantly try to pull it out of the way. Why should feeding become a needless struggle? Those who are annoyed can more easily look away than mothers can completely hide their activity. And then to compare breastfeeding to the sexualization of women in magazines? As if it is even relevant...

I hope you never encounter hostility from CFBC. If you do, I certainly wont support it. I get plenty annoyed at screaming children and all of that, but I never say anything because most of the time, I can tell the parent is having a hard time and wishes the child would shut up just as much as I do.

Now about breastfeeding, that's a hard one. I certainly don't want to see that, but at the same time, can understand your argument as well about feeding under a blanket (or veil). The main reason I don't want to see it is because of my sex addiction (me seeing boobs = bad news) but that's my problem not there's. My view on this has actually softened quite a bit since my brother and sister-in-law had their kid. She never breast fed in public (would use a pump and fill bottles), but, I don't know, maybe because I like them I could tolerate it more? I'm not even really sure, I just know I'm not as against it as I once was.

What I've encountered is annoyance at bringing little kids into the "wrong gender" bathroom. Yes, my four-year-old is potty-trained, but the sink is about 6" above his head, and the paper towels another two feet, so yes I still have to help him. And yes, I have to bring the carseat into the bathroom stall, even if it's crowded; I can't just lay an infant on the dirty floor, or wash my hands while holding him. No, I can't run home real quick and breastfeed, since a newborn has to feed every two hours, and it's at least a 30 minute commute. Sorry, my infant is crying at the DMV, bank, doctor's waiting room, or checkout line, but I have to do these things too. No, there's no magic trick to make him stop; it's not that I'm "being lazy" and not dealing with it. It's just that I need to get my groceries/license renewal/prescription just like you, and babies cry all the time, so there's no perfect way to time it. No, I can't join you at a movie with 30 minutes notice. I feel like some people just don't understand what's involved in taking care of kids, and get annoyed by things that parents don't really have options about.

Strangely enough, I've not in recent memory been annoyed at a parent bringing their child into the wrong gender bathroom. Maybe because it makes sense to me. Dunno. That one never got to me.

The rest of this makes sense too.

I should note that I've never encountered this hostility personally. But I hear some child-free adults complain about these kinds of things (looking for validation from me, as a parent), and of course online, where everyone loses their filter. I don't see children in bars, babies getting changed on dining tables (that warrants a call to the health department), or hear parents admitting they shouldn't have had kids. I mean ever. Maybe Alaskans are just more civil??

I think Alaskans are much more civil. Come on down here to Houston where we have illegal aliens. You want to see kids run amok? We've got 'em! I've seen kids crawling on tables, walking on tables, running roughshod through restaurants, throwing things, screaming at the top of their lungs, crawling over the booth back on MY SIDE of the seat, etc etc etc. And all this at even nice restaurants, like steak houses. Where are the parents in all of this? Pretending their kids don't exist (or at least acting like it). Seriously. Not paying one ounce of attention to the chaos that is ensuing.

Then there are the "entitled ones." These are the worst. Not only are their kids terribly behaved, but if someone (even another parent) tries to say something to them...AW NAW! LaQuisha ain't lettin NO BODY talk to her child or her bout NOTHIN.

Happens all the time down here. You should stay up there. Much better up there. It's one of the reason we're moving the heck out of this God-forsaken town.
 
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akmom

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Minors aren't allowed in bars where I live. Children are allowed in restaurants, and sometimes it's a problem, but nothing like what you describe, Audio. I think I'd just leave!

I can't imagine a parent walking into a restaurant with a child who is already screaming. But sometimes, if your child has been in a good mood, it's nice to be able to take the whole family out. When one of ours has a meltdown, I take him/her to the car and my husband gets our stuff in to-go boxes. But we prefer the McDonalds/Chuck-E-Cheese atmosphere for that. Outbursts blend in way better! Just remember, sometimes people are on a road trip or visiting relatives, and they don't have the luxury of a kitchen or childcare. So they eat at local diners. Hopefully they take their children outside or get their meals to go when things get noisy, but these things take time!

The culture here would not tolerate the behavior you describe in restaurants. It just wouldn't happen. They'd be asked to leave. Not even other parents would put up with that. I guess it's hard to describe your position when other posters are coming from such vastly different cultures.
 
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Audiomechanic

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Minors aren't allowed in bars where I live. Children are allowed in restaurants, and sometimes it's a problem, but nothing like what you describe, Audio. I think I'd just leave!

I do. :)

I can't imagine a parent walking into a restaurant with a child who is already screaming. But sometimes, if your child has been in a good mood, it's nice to be able to take the whole family out. When one of ours has a meltdown, I take him/her to the car and my husband gets our stuff in to-go boxes. But we prefer the McDonalds/Chuck-E-Cheese atmosphere for that. Outbursts blend in way better! Just remember, sometimes people are on a road trip or visiting relatives, and they don't have the luxury of a kitchen or childcare. So they eat at local diners. Hopefully they take their children outside or get their meals to go when things get noisy, but these things take time!

I have zero problems with a parent and child when the parent does as you describe and takes the child outside. It doesn't happen as much as it should down here, but I am appreciative when it does. When a parent takes a screaming child outside to cool off or to leave, that shows me that parent cares about the other patrons in that establishment and I appreciate that.

The culture here would not tolerate the behavior you describe in restaurants. It just wouldn't happen. They'd be asked to leave. Not even other parents would put up with that. I guess it's hard to describe your position when other posters are coming from such vastly different cultures.

I wish the culture here didn't tolerate it, but between the illegals and the thugs, sane people are outnumbered! Seriously, don't live in Houston (or Austin or Dallas or LA or Chicago or etc etc etc). People here don't have any respect anymore.
 
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FishermanDoug

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As far as I am concerned there are three types of people in this scenario.

Type 1: The parent(s) who fully deserve and appreciate the children factor. These people thought about what they wanted, prayed about it, and basically considered the cost/sacrifice of this choice. These folks can be picked out of a crowd. Their attention is on their children in public more than on something else like a cell phone. They enjoy the company of their children, and everyone is typically quite pleasant to be around.

Type 2: The parent(s) who gave no serious thought to the children factor. They got married or while dating just hopped in bed carelessly without taking into consideration the cost/sacrifice of having a child. You can pick these people out in the crowd like a sore thumb in the wind. For instance, they are tapping away on their iPhones while their kids are running around screaming and destroying things in a store (an example given from a recent work experience.)

Type 3: The child-free people. The single, dating, or married folks who just simply desired other things in life over having children, be it running a business, peace and quiet, traveling, finances, etc. Those who carefully examined the cost/sacrifice of the children factor and just simply said "no thank you".
 
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CounselorForChrist

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The hardest part of being childfree is when you are told about kids or people talk about them, theres a awkward silence. THen me and/or my wife break down after because its like someone shoving it in your face even if they don't mean to. We want kids but can't afford to have them. We don't want others shoving it in our face as if we are bad people.
 
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heart of peace

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What an interesting article. I've never actually heard the term lifescripters, but I've always questioned why I was "supposed" to live my life a certain way. And "that way" is a Westernized way of life. Take, for example, the Little House series. The Native Americans were labeled as "savages" by mama Ingalls because they lived differently than her. Who decided that the Westernized way of living was the "right" way to live? Also, the use of the word BINGOs to refer to a series of predictable questions when one makes life choices different than what others "expect" is new to me and certainly not exclusive to being childfree. Thanks for sharing the article :)
 
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peaceandquiet

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Bingo. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

Snooch hit it. It's origin is this: CFBC get get asked and told the same things from people over and over and over. So frequently that one could take all of the phrases and questions and put them on a bingo game card. Then someone did. Then a few more of the cards popped up. Like this one:

Bingo%2010-24-12color.jpg

No joke, I've had almost every one of those bingos directed at me at some point in my life. It's so demeaning.

On another note, it's ironic that the need for this forum is demonstrated right here in THIS FORUM; in other words, why do parents post here? It seems to more often than not just turn into an argument that ends with moderation. It's silly.
 
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Audiomechanic

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On another note, it's ironic that the need for this forum is demonstrated right here in THIS FORUM; in other words, why do parents post here? It seems to more often than not just turn into an argument that ends with moderation. It's silly.

I actually have no issue at all with parents posting here out of genuine curiosity. Inkachu and akmom, I believe, were asking genuinely honest questions, and I don't mind answering them to the best of my ability.

What ends in moderation is when people (and I won't mention (a) name(s)) come here simply to stir the pot. I don't believe that was done in this thread.
 
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